Close

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 54
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, MO USA
    Posts
    1,789
    Rep Points
    3,520.3
    Mentioned
    44 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    36


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Yours are the only twins anyone should consider Click here to enlarge

    Fully optioned out GFs + downpipes, inlets, outlets, has got to be close to the cost of a single turbo I would imagine. Granted most people already have some if not all of those other mods when it is time to upgrade their turbo(s)
    Yeah man definitely pros and cons both ways, cost-wise and hassle-wise.

    On the ST front between O2 issues and burning of valve covers/AC lines/heat protecting your entire underhood/burning air filters or making an inlet in some cases/overall fitment issues/PCV limitations/bottom mount draining issues/legalites/etc sometimes a ST isn't all that either. For most FBO cars looking for a pretty simple install and elegant look and serious performance, there is a "new kid in town" that has applied about a decade of oversights to the equation. Probably should join the slick marketing campaigns all around these days and call them Stage 8.

    Rob

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    202
    Rep Points
    815.3
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    9


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Yours are the only twins anyone should consider Click here to enlarge

    Fully optioned out GFs + downpipes, inlets, outlets, has got to be close to the cost of a single turbo I would imagine. Granted most people already have some if not all of those other mods when it is time to upgrade their turbo(s)
    I would definitely add pure turbos to the list of twins anyone should consider buying.

    I've run mine 20-23 psi (what I consider the sweet spot for my 135i) for around 4 years now without a hiccup. The hardware has been reliable and the company is great to deal with as well.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Down Under
    Posts
    753
    Rep Points
    1,111.1
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    The turbos arent the limiting factor on this platform for 93 but the high compression these engines run.

    A properly built and decompressed n54 will get over 600 whp, I've been running around 630 whp for over 12 months on the gc's with no issues.

    The problem with all these so called single turbo kits is they bring a host of other issues and they are not as reliable as people want to make you believe.

    A properly set up twins are less problematic as long as you dont ask to much of them.
    Bmw 1 series M 11.4@127mph

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    3,259
    Rep Points
    2,462.5
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    25


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by martymil Click here to enlarge
    The turbos arent the limiting factor on this platform for 93 but the high compression these engines run.

    A properly built and decompressed n54 will get over 600 whp, I've been running around 630 whp for over 12 months on the gc's with no issues.

    The problem with all these so called single turbo kits is they bring a host of other issues and they are not as reliable as people want to make you believe.

    A properly set up twins are less problematic as long as you dont ask to much of them.
    You are saying a fully built and decompressed to XX:X will make over 600whp on 0% ethanol pump 93 on GCs on a dynojet? Weird, I have yet to see that dyno.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, MO USA
    Posts
    1,789
    Rep Points
    3,520.3
    Mentioned
    44 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    36


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    You are saying a fully built and decompressed to XX:X will make over 600whp on 0% ethanol pump 93 on GCs on a dynojet? Weird, I have yet to see that dyno.
    For years we have seen the glory pump gas numbers to be around 500-525whp (with most every hybrid including our own) but usually they fall in the 450-475whp range for the more basic setups with more conservative tuning.

    Then we have our first set of RB GF 93 octane results come in a few months ago, which at 18-19psi made 516whp and at 25psi made 582whp. This a an extremely basic setup of a car, nothing special at all, made by some 3rd party, on some non-biased shops dynojet, and all on a 1st dyno attempt.

    To say compression is the only pump gas limitation vs. power potential is ignorant at best, as a very high flow turbine side (ie. housing and wheel) of which can minimize backpressure even under higher flow (boost) is extremely critical to making the most out of octane on any turbocharged engine.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by martymil Click here to enlarge
    The problem with all these so called single turbo kits is they bring a host of other issues and they are not as reliable as people want to make you believe.

    A properly set up twins are less problematic as long as you dont ask to much of them.
    I do agree with all of this 100%.

    Rob
    Last edited by Rob@RBTurbo; 01-14-2020 at 10:57 AM.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Down Under
    Posts
    753
    Rep Points
    1,111.1
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    When I say 93 is the limitation its taking into consideration that the car is full FBO and has the biggest twin turbos from the three leading manufactures like Vtt GC's, Rb gf's or pure and a ff style manifold.

    The problem also is the different blends of 93 in the USA as most run 10% of ethanol so dyno numbers will vary from country to country as here in OZ they gas companies arent alowed to run any.

    Running lower comp is far more forgiving on 93 and you can play with boost and timing to make up for the lack of compression.

    its not that hard to get mid to high 500's on these engines on 93 but getting over 600 takes a bit more finessing, especially on the tunning side.

    Not saying you cant but its a lot harder as its limited by the factory ecu, I have seen personally seen a perfectly tuned engine on the factory ecu make more power using a syvecs which will be my next step with a set of stage 1 cams.
    Bmw 1 series M 11.4@127mph

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, MO USA
    Posts
    1,789
    Rep Points
    3,520.3
    Mentioned
    44 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    36


    Yes Reputation No
    All makes sense but the discussion was based around ST's vs. Twins on pump gas, and we were trying to find a twin setup that can be closer to comparable to ST octane to octane, and our answer was that the twin setup that has the best flowing hotsides is going to put up the best fight in that regard. Then when we start comparing the hot sides (which in this case is mainly the turbine housings and to a lesser degree the manifolds), it is a no brainer of which are the most favorable.

    All of that out of the way we should start seeing (finally) some twins making significantly better power on pump (or "octane" to "octane") than ever has been known prior, on the regular, by many, shortly.

    Rob

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Down Under
    Posts
    753
    Rep Points
    1,111.1
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    I'm just glad to start seeing rb and vtt testing/pushing their turbos on 93 as that's what most customers are most interested in most other countries outside of USA.

    e85 is easy power but brings a host of issues in terms of mechanical reliability and quality of fuel, not getting into that here but that's what made me start running and tunning my car on 93.

    I even converted a few single turbo be all end all believers back to twins after taking a ride in my beast.

    The problem with most is that they are hung up on numbers and the fact is most cant even put those numbers down to the tarmac, so having that much power is useless unless you have spent the time and money on the proper suspension/chassis inc tyre setup and last but not least braking.

    Properly setup twins will come very close in terms of top end power to a single psi for psi until it hits the octane limit but the twins will smash the single on lower rpm's especially between 2000 to 4000 rpm range and seriously that's where we spend most of our driving on the street unless you have a death wish.
    Bmw 1 series M 11.4@127mph

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    3,259
    Rep Points
    2,462.5
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    25


    Yes Reputation No
    93 octane @ 25psi- 582 whp I think that is better than I have seen a single turbo put out on 93. More than a 6466 makes on 93 octane. Why would a 6466 make less on 93 but more on 100% E85? Or, why would twins make more on 93 and less on E85?

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, MO USA
    Posts
    1,789
    Rep Points
    3,520.3
    Mentioned
    44 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    36


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    93 octane @ 25psi- 582 whp I think that is better than I have seen a single turbo put out on 93. More than a 6466 makes on 93 octane. Why would a 6466 make less on 93 but more on 100% E85? Or, why would twins make more on 93 and less on E85?
    I think it is just a demonstration of the flow ability of these new twin housings, not to say a ST can't do the same or better, as they should be able to do at least the same if/when attempted. At larger power goals (ie. 700+whp) there is no question that an appropriately sized ST will leave even these newest large housing twins more and more in the dust.

    Rob

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    140,523
    Rep Points
    42,517.4
    Mentioned
    2455 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    426



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    At larger power goals (ie. 700+whp) there is no question that an appropriately sized ST will leave even these newest large housing twins more and more in the dust.
    People think you just bolt on a large single and that's it. There are other considerations when going to 700+ whp.

    I've said there is a sweet spot the hybrids provide and that really is that ~600 whp range. Beyond that, might as well change platforms as you will need to redo the whole car to put it down reliably.
    Three sets of brand new 991.2 3.0 headers for sale: Kline, Fabspeed, and Vektor Ceramic Coated

    IPD plenum for Porsche 991.2 3.0 for sale: $650

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Down Under
    Posts
    753
    Rep Points
    1,111.1
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    100% agree.

    These cars want to kill you and are not very drivable with any more than 600rwp unless all you do is drive in a straight line and then its still a big handful.

    We made a single kit and unless your aiming the car straight you can forget bringing it on boost as it will put you into a ditch as it still wants to lane swap at over 130mph, its just lights up and it's just nasty brutal power.
    Bmw 1 series M 11.4@127mph

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    38
    Rep Points
    157.3
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by martymil Click here to enlarge
    100% agree.

    These cars want to kill you and are not very drivable with any more than 600rwp unless all you do is drive in a straight line and then its still a big handful.

    We made a single kit and unless your aiming the car straight you can forget bringing it on boost as it will put you into a ditch as it still wants to lane swap at over 130mph, its just lights up and it's just nasty brutal power.
    I think having a car that goes so fast/hard it can kill you is exactly what attracts people. Or at least have the potential to. Unfortunately, the reality is most people look at numbers, peak hp, and never look at the transient response or torque values throughout the rpm range (and how well it holds the torque).

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Down Under
    Posts
    753
    Rep Points
    1,111.1
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    This single turbo kit I had a hand in is bat $#@! bonkers, in the hands of inexperieced drivers is just downright dangerous and is basically for race/track use only once you start turning it up over 20psi.

    It has a 300rwk dump over a narrow 500 rpm when it comes on boost, it pins you so hard in the seat that made the previous tuner violently ill and loose his lunch just after two logs lol.
    Last edited by martymil; 01-15-2020 at 07:21 PM. Reason: spell check
    Bmw 1 series M 11.4@127mph

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    300
    Rep Points
    1,132.7
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by martymil Click here to enlarge
    This single turbo kit I had a hand in is bat $#@! bonkers, in the hands of inexperieced drivers is just downright dangerous and is basically for race/track use only once you start turning it up over 20psi.

    It has a 300rwk dump over a narrow 500 rpm when it comes on boost, it pins you so hard in the seat that made the previous tuner violently ill and loose his lunch just after two logs lol.
    I really like your posts, and I'm sure the single turbo car was fast, but I also love your hyperbole. Don't get me wrong, these cars can be fast, but nothing we're driving is record breaking stuff. There's SOOO many cars in my area that are street cars running in the 8s @ 160+, its almost heart breaking to have a fun 600+whp car.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Down Under
    Posts
    753
    Rep Points
    1,111.1
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Hyperbole lol

    The single turbo car is not fast just down right nasty to drive and is mostly undrivable except in a straight line.

    It makes close to 900hp at the wheels on a dyno jet and when it comes on boost its like the old 2jz powerband, vertical between 4200 rpm and 4700rpm where it goes from 12psi to 28psi.
    Bmw 1 series M 11.4@127mph

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    140,523
    Rep Points
    42,517.4
    Mentioned
    2455 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    426



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
    I really like your posts, and I'm sure the single turbo car was fast, but I also love your hyperbole. Don't get me wrong, these cars can be fast, but nothing we're driving is record breaking stuff. There's SOOO many cars in my area that are street cars running in the 8s @ 160+, its almost heart breaking to have a fun 600+whp car.
    It's not hyperbole.

    We all understand no E9X will be record breaking. However, has anyone really driven one of these hard on the street at 600, 700, or 800 whp?

    It's a handful to say the last. I got on my car in second a few weeks back when it was cold out and promptly spun out (fortunately not hitting anyone or anything as nobody was around).

    On a 2nd to 3rd shift at WOT a week ago my heart skipped a beat as the rear end went squirrely before getting back in line.

    You have to respect the power. We're just spoiled with insane numbers in this tuning age.

    These cars aren't some AWD Huracan effortlessly putting the power down. RWD high power BMW's can and are a handful. The N54's with their rear end I'm sure can scare you more at 600 rwhp when the boost hits than many more powerful modern platforms designed to put that power down.

    That is what Marymil is saying. I remember when I first got my Porsche back with upgraded turbos thinking it was scary fast. I went to the track and realized that turbo torque can sure be deceptive. The 911 though at least with its weight bias and wide rear tires makes big torque pretty to easy to put down in 1st or 2nd without fear of going sideways.
    Three sets of brand new 991.2 3.0 headers for sale: Kline, Fabspeed, and Vektor Ceramic Coated

    IPD plenum for Porsche 991.2 3.0 for sale: $650

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    140,523
    Rep Points
    42,517.4
    Mentioned
    2455 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    426



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by martymil Click here to enlarge
    Hyperbole lol

    The single turbo car is not fast just down right nasty to drive and is mostly undrivable except in a straight line.

    It makes close to 900hp at the wheels on a dyno jet and when it comes on boost its like the old 2jz powerband, vertical between 4200 rpm and 4700rpm where it goes from 12psi to 28psi.
    Completely agree here.

    With the turbo guys it's like a lightswitch at that power level and displacement. Nothing... nothing... holy $#@! what just happened? Are those tire marks mine? Why am I facing the wrong direction?
    Three sets of brand new 991.2 3.0 headers for sale: Kline, Fabspeed, and Vektor Ceramic Coated

    IPD plenum for Porsche 991.2 3.0 for sale: $650

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    300
    Rep Points
    1,132.7
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    I have no doubt they are ridiculously fast, I'm just saying that sadly 1000whp now is really table stakes for a FAST car. With SBE LS turbos making 1200+ whp, and built setups capable of more, it's ridiculous how fast things have gotten. Our local street car challenge is not worth entering unless your car can go 8.50s. At the last even there were at least 20 cars that were competitive in that realm. Street cars too, not drag cars.

    So to me, saying that a single turbo N54 making 900whp is too fast and absolutely insane is hyperbole. :-D

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    38
    Rep Points
    157.3
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Where I live, having a 600 hp 3300 lb car can pretty much wipe anything on the street Click here to enlarge

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    140,523
    Rep Points
    42,517.4
    Mentioned
    2455 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    426



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
    I have no doubt they are ridiculously fast, I'm just saying that sadly 1000whp now is really table stakes for a FAST car.
    I completely agree. You need to trap 150+ to be considered fast today. That doesn't mean a 130 trap or less car can't put some hair on your chest. Click here to enlarge
    Three sets of brand new 991.2 3.0 headers for sale: Kline, Fabspeed, and Vektor Ceramic Coated

    IPD plenum for Porsche 991.2 3.0 for sale: $650

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    300
    Rep Points
    1,132.7
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Magnusk77 Click here to enlarge
    Where I live, having a 600 hp 3300 lb car can pretty much wipe anything on the street Click here to enlarge

    I'm in podunk South Carolina and thought my 130 trap car would be competitive in a street car challenge. Nope. Hell, even the stick car class guys were trapping over 150. Made me sad.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    140,523
    Rep Points
    42,517.4
    Mentioned
    2455 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    426



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
    I'm in podunk South Carolina and thought my 130 trap car would be competitive in a street car challenge. Nope. Hell, even the stick car class guys were trapping over 150. Made me sad.
    I'd bet that's all cheap American muscle though. Domestics will always win the drag game.

    If using a BMW don't try going up against some unlimited class. Fight in your weight class.
    Three sets of brand new 991.2 3.0 headers for sale: Kline, Fabspeed, and Vektor Ceramic Coated

    IPD plenum for Porsche 991.2 3.0 for sale: $650

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    300
    Rep Points
    1,132.7
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    Well, yeah it was all V8s, but not old junk. ZR1s, Hellcats, Mustangs, and even Ls-swap and turbo RX7s. It was just surprising to me how insanely fast street cars are now. I mean, 130 is pretty dang fast, but there wasn't even a point. Held my own against the GTRs though, which I was happy about.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Down Under
    Posts
    753
    Rep Points
    1,111.1
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    my car on 93 runs 128mph and havent tried e85 on the new motor but I know it will easily do 132 to 134mph.

    The single is way faster than mine, it will wipe my car easily from a rolling start, using a draggy it was in the high 130's to low 140's.

    We just have to run the new motor in to find out how fast it really will be.
    Bmw 1 series M 11.4@127mph

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •