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  1. #101
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JBacon335 Click here to enlarge
    I can only imagine they will be similar to the Hydra performance turbos
    Similar yes (just like a couple of the other similar options) just without the many ball drops each.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    just without the many ball drops each.
    What am I missing? The Hydra dude making some early mistakes?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What am I missing? The Hydra dude making some early mistakes?
    I thought they were very well designed. I'm curious as to what the ball drop is with them as well

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    The Hydra setup went in a lot of right directions and in fact it is my favorite to date, but it added a couple wrong turns especially if turbos ordered for the N54 head (while the N53 head custom manifold looks very nice). The biggest problem is the re-use of the OE manifold, secondary to that is the 12-blade turbine, lastly is some internal machining quirks in these turbine housings. NOTE: The wastegates that are included with these housings are pretty poor in design as well.

    While the OE manifold is a very high quality piece (and thus we can see why it is desirable to use), the throat size is a great mismatch for the new housing and that is a large kicker. While it is a GREAT match for the OE turbine housing flow wise and extremely high quality of course, that is about where the buck stops. This is unfortunate as the housing Hydra is using is the first we have seen to actually be a well designed, high flow, and an overall very high quality piece. On another note the manifold that is native to this housing is not quite all perfect either, it will need to have some internal CNC machining to get it worthwhile of usage. But once these custom efforts are complete it will be a nice piece and of course a well matched one at that, this is the proper route of action IMO.

    Regarding the internal turbine housing machining you guys would poop yourselves if we showed pictures of the atrociousness of some of the others, unfortunately when you are not machining your own stuff you tend to miss some of these gotchas in life. This one is not quite up to par but it is the best one we've seen in this regard, certainly a large step in the right direction.

    Lastly the OE 12-blade turbine casting, while it works and we used it for years as well in the classic RBs for example, there are just much better flowing castings available these days. We understand this was the choice as it was felt to be of highest quality and also a common "fault", but unfortunately metallurgical issues and/or other turbine quality issues is not why these turbines in some of these turbo offerings have been failing. In these cases the vendor responsible just hasn't figured out why yet, or refuses to accept the true reasons; and meanwhile keeps fiddling around with materials an casting designs hoping for an easy cure.

    When it comes to internals and balancing, we have no idea the choices there but hopefully it is all done top flight.

    All in all picking between these setups to date has been like choosing between hemorrhoids or ulcers, unfortunately it just has come down to which is done the best out of a field of poor options. The plan is to change all of that around.

    Rob

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    Well I got a set of the 650s which I thought were a pretty good match of components for wanting 500whp reliably. I'm putting them on next month when I have spring break off of work from the vocational school. I'll let everyone know how they work out especially long term as this is my daily driver.

  6. #106
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JBacon335 Click here to enlarge
    Well I got a set of the 650s which I thought were a pretty good match of components for wanting 500whp reliably. I'm putting them on next month when I have spring break off of work from the vocational school. I'll let everyone know how they work out especially long term as this is my daily driver.
    I think for your 500whp power goal, the OE manifold in itself is fine. I really do not think it becomes too restrictive until closer to 600whp, but unfortunately it definitely is not matched well in the throat area to your new turbine housings which creates a large outward step as the exhaust flow transitions from the manifold to the turbine housing inlet. Just a bad design idea, a take one step forward and then a step back sort of thing or as mentioned prior a ball drop of sorts.

    For your power goals something simple and well matched like our RB Twos would've been very well efficient, more affordable, offer better wastegates, and be quite a bit easier to install with the availability of standard style outlets. Not to mention, 100% proven, still not a hiccup with a single set of them now 17 months later.

    Rob

  7. #107
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    Another month gone by, another 12 or so setup out the door. Tis the season for tons of orders, as we are experiencing as usual very high demand this time of year... unfortunately to the point of just not being able to keep up. It is remarkable a decade later, this engine platform primarily ALONE is all we can keep up with on demand.

    Regarding quality it was a quiet month overall, but did have a confirmed failure of a RB Classic rebuild/upgrade to RB Next Gen Plus performed mid/late last year and subsequently sent to a Russian customer. Due to some extreme language barriers, it is hard to say what all lead up to this failure... but one thing we COULD gather is that its all intertwined with another N54 engine biting the dust in the form of low compression and suspected bent rods. Customer stated a donor engine was sourced from Europe and was being installed, and of course the turbos will need to be serviced along with it.

    4/13/19 EDIT: This customer has returned the turbo and it was found that the turbine wheel literally sheered off from the shaft. They also indicated that they now believe the engine was good, minus some bearing and internal cylinder scoring it was though to be "in decent shape". There are ongoing discussions on how the shaft could have snapped (ie. usually caused by a BOV or Surging) issue, but not sure we will ever find out the actual cause or be told if it was an extreme abuse ("send it") scenario. In the meantime we have kept the shaft for reference to compare if there is ever a recurrence, as this is a first of its kind (since product Intro with ~30 months time in the field) we do not anticipate any sort of quality issue on our side.

    It was mentioned above but all of our TD04 offerings as known prior have now been officially discontinued, and they will be replaced with a forthcoming fully cast TD04 setup hopefully made public within the next month. In the interim and for what has become the more norm over the past year or so, our TD03 offerings have been our best sellers and we can only hope that our new TD04 offerings will come even remotely close to them from a sales perspective. Regarding the TD03 setups we have one Higher powered new comer right around the corner as well (RB Twos Plus), as our new custom turbines have been received so we expect to have them going within the next month or so as well.

    Thanks,
    Rob
    Last edited by Rob@RBTurbo; 04-13-2019 at 03:46 PM.

  8. #108
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    02-08-2019, 10:47 AM
    Another month and another 12 or so setups out the door.

    Interesting month in that we have had our first ever RB OEM complaint, on a set of RB OEM DIY CHRA's purchased last year. A risky product to sell as it does put a lot of responsibility and turbo handling into the end users hands (something I was extremely critical about ever offering), but all said they have been AMAZING to say the least- meaning we must be selling to some very talented and careful DIY'ers of the world. Anyway pictures provided showed that the turbos had failed- but at the same time the customer was forthright enough to also say that the engine was a built motor that had also failed from rod knock upon startup (with our new CHRA's installed on it). We suspect obviously that the contaminated oil from the failed (newly built) motor had led to the demise of the CHRA's, but they have yet to be sent back for observation. Just to note we began selling these RB OEMs and RB OEM Billets (offered in both complete and DIY form) 2 years and 3 months ago, and have sold a truck load of them to the tune of 200 or so sets all combined. I was wondering how long it would take before we saw even a SINGLE issue- and even though this is not something we can control it FINALLY did happen here.
    Another month and another 18+ setups out the door (it has been beyond crazy busy).

    Quality wise all was quiet aside for yet another DIY OEM CHRA kit sold, which directly after install failed per customer report. As listed above we had saw the first ever RB OEM failure (from being installed on a bearing failed engine), several months back of which was also an DIY OEM CHRA kit.

    Now here we are 2.5 years post production, selling an absolute ton of the RB OEM products, with no real faulted setup to date. Unfortunately what we had found here is that the compressor wheel was damaged, and the shaft literally snapped off at the compressor wheel nut. We suspect that the compressor insertion into the housing either damaged the fins affecting the fin integrity causing separation/misbalance, or perhaps the diverters were not functioning properly and snapped the shaft.

    We were not able to get much from the customer for assistance, and it didn't appear that they had done the DIY efforts themselves to know what/if anything had gone wrong in that regard either. Regardless we soaked this one up and sent them a new set, even inserted them ourselves into another set of undamaged compressor housings, and even paid for the marginal shipping rate back to them.

    Once again these DIY offerings are a risky product to sell as we are expecting that the end user has a certain level of turbo building expertise, but all in all have been very proud in that most typically we are not seeing any issues over substantial amounts of time and units sold. All of that said it seemed reasonable to eat it despite our beliefs on the actual root cause of the failure, if we had seen more of this than the 1 in the past 2.5 years it could be worth simply not offering them anymore due to the implied risk in assumption that the end user has the technical aptitude to do the work.

    Rob

  9. #109
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    Another month and another 18+ setups out the door (it has been beyond crazy busy).
    I'm just curious, are you doing any S55 work or N55 stuff or is it still mainly N54?

  10. #110
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm just curious, are you doing any S55 work or N55 stuff or is it still mainly N54?
    Joe,

    As I personally hand build/balance every turbocharger- no not yet. Kind of a bummer as we have 10's of K's invested in literally every other engine, from N20 to S63TU, all RB customized upgraded parts sitting here ready to go.

    But the N54 market just never seems to lay off enough which is pretty amazing. Surely much more profits to be had elsewhere and thus it has been a plan to expand, but I'd literally have to start declining a lot of sales in order to bring in any other work. So basically have just been winging it with the current/evolved N54 portfolio and waiting for some slowdown to maybe happen someday. Alternatively could give up the OCD control freak and bring in another to help with the intricate final build sides of things, but to date that part is all handled by only myself as QC has been what has been of utmost importance.

    Rob

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    Another month went by and about 20 sets out the door. Crazy busy and it seems as if the N54 engine platform still obviously providing plenty of business.

    During this past month we did get 1 set of RB Next Gens back with a snapped shaft that were shipped early 2016. This particular setup had been initially installed flawlessly on an engine since and but that the customer wanted to go ST, so he sold them off to another which at that point they were fine.

    Then they were installed onto another car which was riddled with some problems, charge pipes bouncing off, lots of code issues, unknowns with the BOV setup, and with what was later to be determined to have a collapsed rear outlet. We are not sure which helped push the turbo to failure, but unfortunately this unit ended up with a snapped rear turbine shaft. It would be interesting to see how they would've held up if not moved from one engine to another, but at this point it is what it is.... they have already been refurbished and sent along.

    Rob

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    Crazy busy and it seems as if the N54 engine platform still obviously providing plenty of business.
    The hybrid market likely will as that is the sweet spot for $ per hp and plenty of used cars on the market for cheap today.

  13. #113
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The hybrid market likely will as that is the sweet spot for $ per hp and plenty of used cars on the market for cheap today.
    Yeah, it sure seems that way. Tons of competition, more and more and more and more... yet business still never has really taken much of a decline. At times I wish it would, it is pretty easy to get burnt out especially after a decade focusing on the same engine. Anyway really goes to show you how many of these N54 engines are out there in the hands of users wanting to mod.

    Rob

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    Thumbs up

    Just want to toss a thanks out to Rob. I purchased his turbos back in 2013 at 100k miles, had Cobb install them and tune the car for 93 octane daily driving, and have now put 70k miles on them with no issues...even though I accidentally sucked paper towels into both inlets about a year after the install, oops...that wasn't fun to clean out.

    I did finally kill the 6AT a few years ago, with the embarrassingly final demise occurring seconds after going WOT at 90 mph to pass someone on a road trip, but no issues with the turbos.
    RB Turbos w/ N20 TMAP Sensor | 93 Octane Protune by Cobb Plano | xHP Stage 3 | DEFIV Lock-Down | BMS DCI | STETT CP | Forge DVs | Helix FMIC | CP-E Catted DPs | Walbro 450 | RB PCV | M3 Control Arms | BBS CH
    Hixson BMW of Monroe, LA - Shady Dealer


  15. #115
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    Another crazy month down, ~20 sets out the door, everything still going great, and a now expanded line up by officially introducing the RB Two Plus and RB Game Finishers into the portfolio.

    Did have a few "hiccups" this month per the below:
    1) RB Next Gens dating early 2016 back for refurbishment.
    Background: Customer bought car being told it only needed rebuilt turbos, so we get the initial email. Not typical to see these turbos fail, we suggested leak down testing. Research showed he had 2 cylinders with ~30+% leak down, which is not good, so yet another N54 toasted engine. Turbos did survive, wheels intact, etc.; but were heavily gunked up with crud on the turbines from the bad engine breathing coal on them for god knows how long. If re-used probably would be prone to a much shorter lifespan, so customer intelligently opted for rebuilds for good measure.
    2) RB OEMs from ~ mid 2017 sent back as cores.
    Background: Interesting case. Customer ordered through shop for some RB Twos. Later we get back some of our RB OEM's returned as cores, still looked damn near perfect. Reached out to shop to query why the turbos were removed, and by chance the customer just emailed same night with an awesome RB Testimonial. Turns out the customer loved their RB OEM's very much, but was just looking for more power- and as expected had zero issues with the RB OEM's. Emails even this morning sound like this customer maybe interested in the new RB GF's in another year or two if their power bug keeps growing.
    3) RB Twos sent back in for servicing/upgrade.
    Background: First set of RB Twos ever returned in now nearly 2 years since shipments began. Yet still a "good news" story here in that the customer only had them off their car due to another blown N54 engine. The customer emailed in asking, that in their quest for more power, if we had anything for an upgrade that we can do to them during the engine replacement process at a reasonable cost. With that we suggested at least a rebuild for good measure (always a good move if your engine was compromised as bad engines tend to gunk up the turbines quickly), but also tossed in the RB Two Plus upgrade portion while at it per his request.

    All in all and as usual, this is a full documentary of our monthly returns since dates listed in post 1 of this thread. While this one month was a "busy one" with 3 "issues"; it is still quite clear that things are going phenomenal week after week, month after month, and year after year.

    Thanks,
    Rob
    Last edited by Rob@RBTurbo; 07-08-2019 at 03:22 PM.

  16. #116
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    Appreciate the kind words sir and glad that the RB Classics are treating you well after all this time. Being a largely produced offering sold from ~2/2010 through 9/2015 which is now nearly 4 years since the last sets were shipped, we tend to wonder how many are still out there on the streets? We made lots of progress in our products since those days, but still cool to see some of them doing well after all this time too.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by georgelb Click here to enlarge
    Just want to toss a thanks out to Rob. I purchased his turbos back in 2013 at 100k miles, had Cobb install them and tune the car for 93 octane daily driving, and have now put 70k miles on them with no issues...even though I accidentally sucked paper towels into both inlets about a year after the install, oops...that wasn't fun to clean out.

    I did finally kill the 6AT a few years ago, with the embarrassingly final demise occurring seconds after going WOT at 90 mph to pass someone on a road trip, but no issues with the turbos.

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    Another month gone by, with close to 20 sets out the door including several sets of the new RB Game Finishers and several sets of the new RB Twos Plus. So far so good all around with them! Also during this past month we received zero units back for servicing which is great news, as our units in field are so great in quantity and constantly mounting, that this is truly a huge feat with all the possible variables out there to find issues.

    Even greater news is that at the moment, we are backlogged less than 5 sets. This is literally unheard of but happy times for this guy, as it is a miserable feeling to be backlogged 10+ or even 20+ sets in this field. Considering I personally build every turbo, it is quite the feeling of pressure that is not good for the anxiety levels! All said hopefully sales slow up, or at most keep a constant low-medium pace going into this slower season, as I'd love to start getting into some other platforms SOON! Usually though what happens when we get lower backlogs is that a bunch of orders materialize from conversations months prior, literally simultaneously. Either way business is business so we take what we get and are appreciative for it all, but a bit of N54 slowdown in order to get into some other platforms after a decade sure would spice things up a bit! Anyway will keep some fingers crossed, and until next month we meet again.

    Rob

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    Decided to make this update a quarterly one, as at some point in the future I'd like to reconcile the data and have another look to see how the % of issues grows over time in the field. Obviously, it is going to get worse the longer units are in field due to numerous reasons from simple age to abuse to being removed/reinstalled on other engines to car repurchases to poor maintenance to bad supporting mods etc etc. All said I suspect that even years deep we are still sub 5% EVEN IF we consider EVERY failure as our own fault, which is astounding IMO.

    Anyway over the past 3 months things have been pretty good overall. We have shipped out around 45 sets of N54 turbos, anywhere from standard RB OEM CHRA's to the new Game Finishers (6 sets of those went out in themselves). So the N54 sales volume is still up there, despite a bunch of new slightly cheaper China based offerings we are still selling to this N54 platform quite well.

    The quarterly quality update was so-so, more than we like to see come back, but not too shabby all things considered:

    1) RB Next Gen Plus: Set suffered Front turbo catastrophic failure. Upon teardown of the rear, the journal bearings had minor scoring, it otherwise looked perfect inside and out. If didn't know any better, I'd say either the front turbine decided to come apart or something went through it. However engine cylinder diagnosis turned out well per feedback. BOV also checked out per reports. Customer later stated they'd found heavy oil contamination and decided to replace the engine. Set was 8 months post purchase, still under warranty, no fingers pointed just completely overhauled/shipped back out at $0.

    2) RB Next Gen Plus: Set suffered a Front Turbo catastrophic failure. The rear unit also had some burned thrusts which is a very odd occurrence (have not seen this is a very long time). It is suspected that the customer has some oiling issues, or was just experiencing some extreme surge and/or BOV issues (he stated a Tial was installed and done correctly). We also do know the customer had some issues with boost leaks early on, but do not know the entire case quite yet. Customer suspects they could have some internal engine damages, due to the chain of events that led up to the failure, but has not been able to get this answered through his mechanic quite yet. We went through everything we could with them and can only hope they are thorough with the repair otherwise we could meet here again. Set was 11 months old and was repaired/shipped out for $0.

    3) RB Next Gen Plus: Set suffered a rear turbo catastrophic failure. We were not able to get much correspondence with the customer, all was well from all we could really tell from what they said. We do know they went through one set of OUR (RB) outlets, and had a significant outlet leak due to this. We ended up sending them a new outlet at a point, but when the units came back looks like they could've had some other modifications installed so not sure if they went through a 2nd outlet or not? While we still occasionally sell our Silicone outlets to the RHD crowd (as they have no other options), we pretty much pulled the plug on them last year once VRSF came out with their aluminum solutions as they are cheap and aluminum and not subject to failure. Now we did have very good luck with our RB silicone outlets, but the fact remains is that they are NOT ever going to be as reliable as aluminum over time and they are also vulnerable to any thing such as simple as a slipped screwdriver. All in all this was a catastrophically failed rear turbo, that we suspect could just be due to overspin as that is all we can determine from our highly limited encounter with the customer. Ultimately we hope the customer firstly uses the VRSF aluminum outlet and ALSO looks around such that we do not meet again. This barely out of warranty (13 month old) setup was repaired and shipped back out for $0.

    4) RB Twos: It was just a matter of time, but this was the first ever RB Two set to come back since product intro. Click here to enlarge Made it exactly a full 2 years before this happened though, so that is great news! This is actually a local guy, whom doubtfully would ever say anything online... but that is not what these updates are all about. These updates are about being as forthright as we possibly can, the idea being to squash the fact that all "twins" are bad. Anyway this guy suffered a rear shaft snap, he stated at around 14psi. Looking around his scenario the only lame duck we could find was that he literally had a 1995 (1st gen) HKS BOV (or old china copy) that was tapered down via adapter to a single sub 1" discharge, and also did not have an upgraded vacuum reference. We suspect that it just was old and feeble and not working, caused surge, and snapped the shaft. Once again can not emphasize how important a BOV setup is, get a good quality unit such as the Tial and make sure it is plumbed and adjusted correctly. He was a mere few days over the warranty, however we still covered the repair at $0 and handed off locally.

    Thanks,
    Rob
    Last edited by Rob@RBTurbo; 11-08-2019 at 03:10 PM.

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    FYI here is the solid update on #1 above from mechanic working the case below:
    "I opened up the oil pan on the motor that was replaced and found a backed out and broken oil pump bolt. Also timing chain guide plastic piece was broken and sitting in the oil pan. I am surprised the motor ran and still boosted up until the front turbo went out."

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    What is the difference between the Rb next gen plus and the rb twos plus? How much power do you rate these turbos at as well? Thanks

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
    What is the difference between the Rb next gen plus and the rb twos plus? How much power do you rate these turbos at as well? Thanks
    Basically identical wheel set wise but moved into using the TD03 center with the same internal TD04+ upgrades we'd be using with the RB Twos the past couple years, amounting to a significant MSRP cost savings. Our full TD04 setups (which are now fully 100% TD04 from top to bottom and side to side) have now moved into the RB GF series.

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    How long do you expect a set of game finishers to last if they are not maxed out? Are they reasonable to rebuild if there is a problem down the line?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Beemereater Click here to enlarge
    How long do you expect a set of game finishers to last if they are not maxed out? Are they reasonable to rebuild if there is a problem down the line?
    Turbos utilized in healthy environments, and not pushed to and beyond the edges of their lives, should easily last 75+k miles just as the OEM's would. This goes for our entire lineup as well, you really just need to figure out your power goals and buy the appropriate setup, no need to buy the largest it is more about just using whatever you buy in the recommended power ranges (or below).

    Thanks,
    Rob

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    Rob, How do the Super RB Evo turbos compare with the RB Next Gen +, RB Twos and RB GF turbos.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Coupes11 Click here to enlarge
    Rob, How do the Super RB Evo turbos compare with the RB Next Gen +, RB Twos and RB GF turbos.
    Coupes,

    I'd suggest reading through this thread closely- should answer a lot of questions about the GF's and also show lots of pictures of the large housings vs. comparisons with other housing options:
    https://www.bimmerboost.com/showthre...arting-at-3000

    The long and short of it is that the RB GF's, while similar to the RB EVOs wheel sets and compressor housings, are a whole new breed when it comes to the entire hotside which has been significantly improved over any other such that it is no longer any sort of cork whatsoever.

    The Super RB EVO 17T's were nearly identical to the RB Next Gen Plus, except it had a larger more efficient compressor housing. Both of these would probably get edged out a bit by the new RB Twos Plus thanks to a slightly larger higher flowing custom turbine. The RB GF Standards are similar to the RB Twos Plus but with much larger housings hot (and manifold) and cold, along with yet again an even larger custom turbine.

    Thanks,
    Rob

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