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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    At 24v the PR only needs like 1ms which the DME can do, the Audi would probably need half that, not sure if the DME can go that low
    DME minimum limit for dwell time is 1ms.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jyamona@motiv Click here to enlarge
    DME minimum limit for dwell time is 1ms.
    does the new xdf define multispark/dwell tables or is that only available as one of those check boxes?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by noorj Click here to enlarge
    does the new xdf define multispark/dwell tables or is that only available as one of those check boxes?
    Yep, I added it all to the latest XDFs

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    except standalones don't exist
    I think he knows what he's talking about...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by marconi118 Click here to enlarge
    Do R8 coils fit the N54 head without modification?

    Do we have aces to the DME dwel tables and disable of the multi spark via tunerpro xdf bbflash?
    If they weren't a seamless fit I doubt they would be so popular but @hobbit382

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by marconi118 Click here to enlarge
    Converting the DME signal (shorting to ground the coil with IGBT) to a 5V TTL signal should be easy...

    A PNP transistor and a 78l05 voltage regulator should do the trick. feed the +5v to the emitter of the transistor
    put a 10K resistor from the basis of the transistor to the DME coil output. Connect the collector of the transistor with a 1K resistor to ground. connect the collector to the smart coil drive pin.
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by marconi118 Click here to enlarge
    Do R8 coils fit the N54 head without modification?
    yes
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by marconi118 Click here to enlarge
    Do we have aces to the DME dwel tables and disable of the multi spark via tunerpro xdf bbflash?
    we do but other things are needed

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by marconi118 Click here to enlarge
    Do we have aces to the DME dwel tables and disable of the multi spark via tunerpro xdf bbflash?
    Yes the multispark tables are defined in the XDF. Currently the PR option disables multispark, since it's mostly a backup/emissions thing. However I'm going to be talking with MHD about separating multispark into its own option for people to use on factory coils or others like BL/PR since it does lessen the load on the coils and drivers some. The issue we've found when it's integrated with the PR option, is that multispark is good at covering up a few issues like vacuum leaks and cracked ringlands in a couple cases. It would be nice to use for diagnostics and turn on for events.

    Also on dwell, there are still some scalars that haven't been defined it seems. I went ahead and tested 1ms-6ms dwell times recently and made a chart. Values over 2.5ms get applied as 50% basically, for unknown reasons. Gonna have to change the PR table for that as well, since currently the tables assumed we had 100% accurate control. Not a big deal though and honestly I'd say dwell control is pretty spot on with current XDF.

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Yes the multispark tables are defined in the XDF. Currently the PR option disables multispark, since it's mostly a backup/emissions thing. However I'm going to be talking with MHD about separating multispark into its own option for people to use on factory coils or others like BL/PR since it does lessen the load on the coils and drivers some. The issue we've found when it's integrated with the PR option, is that multispark is good at covering up a few issues like vacuum leaks and cracked ringlands in a couple cases. It would be nice to use for diagnostics and turn on for events.

    Also on dwell, there are still some scalars that haven't been defined it seems. I went ahead and tested 1ms-6ms dwell times recently and made a chart. Values over 2.5ms get applied as 50% basically, for unknown reasons. Gonna have to change the PR table for that as well, since currently the tables assumed we had 100% accurate control. Not a big deal though and honestly I'd say dwell control is pretty spot on with current XDF.
    I noticed this as well, and was talking to Jake Y about it. He mention there was another table that is coolant temp based that gets factored in, I haven't looked it up myself but we also talked a little about changing that axis to load instead of coolant. Having a load based table would really help take the load off the coils when not needed

  9. #59
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    I still don't think you would want multi-spark on any aftermarket coil, as then you have a large RPM range with little to no control over dwell where the DME operates out of the 50+ multi-spark tables. I think it would be a waste of time to tune them all. Having a load based factor table would be the best option here, something I can take a look into.
    @hobbit382 did I not add that Coolant factor table to the XDFs? I thought I did.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jyamona@motiv Click here to enlarge
    @hobbit382 did I not add that Coolant factor table to the XDFs? I thought I did.
    I have looked at the latest xdf, so it probably is on there

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    The coolant one I have on IJ only and it works, but at 70C and up is just a factor of 1. The factors for the rest of the table are a little high for the longer dwell coils but for any coil close to engine heat it's nice to have and only really changes things for warmup. It would be useful to have that table for a few guys that have done remote mounted coils more than anything.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think he knows what he's talking about...
    ¿qué?

    maybe i misunderstood but he said standalones were available? i'm only aware of the rubbish one being 'purchaseable' and now apparently syvecs has 100% completed their development absolutely out of nowhere.. so in the days since i made that comment that's changed i guess lol
    boop

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    maybe i misunderstood but he said standalones were available? i'm only aware of the rubbish one being 'purchaseable' and now apparently syvecs has 100% completed their development absolutely out of nowhere.. so in the days since i made that comment that's changed i guess lol
    Well he's in Europe as I understand it and guys racing have used standalones for a while from my understanding.
    @hobbit382

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well he's in Europe as I understand it and guys racing have used standalones for a while from my understanding.
    @hobbit382
    Unless he has some more info that was somehow unique to Europe and never made it out to any other country, was never run at any race event or spoken about online...

    Only standalone n54 I know of besides motiv's solenoid conversion was a baller dollar motec build in South Africa that was custom done one-off
    boop

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Only standalone n54 I know of besides motiv's solenoid conversion was a baller dollar motec build in South Africa that was custom done one-off
    I would assume the guys who have proper standalone setups are running baller motecs.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I would assume the guys who have proper standalone setups are running baller motecs.
    Only one according to motec themselves afaik, was supposed to work with them to make a kit years ago. Idk. No big loss, be more exxy than the syvecs for less features lol
    boop

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I wonder if anyone has try to tap the 5v logic signal directly to drive the r8 coils? I tried and I was not successful in getting the car running. I need to get my scope back from my friend to see what is going on with the signal. I believe current might not be enough to drive coil. Any thoughts on this?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sunnyjay Click here to enlarge
    I wonder if anyone has try to tap the 5v logic signal directly to drive the r8 coils? I tried and I was not successful in getting the car running. I need to get my scope back from my friend to see what is going on with the signal. I believe current might not be enough to drive coil. Any thoughts on this?
    Did you took the signal from the gate if the DME IGBT?
    Maybe there is a resistor in series from the CPU to the IGBT gate that limits the current?

    or maybe there is a current monitoring by the DME? did you got error codes?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by marconi118 Click here to enlarge
    Did you took the signal from the gate if the DME IGBT?
    Maybe there is a resistor in series from the CPU to the IGBT gate that limits the current?
    or maybe there is a current monitoring by the DME? did you got error codes?
    Come to think about the i/o pins, they have to be protected somehow externally of the cpu so current limiting resistors and diodes come into play. I'm sure the engineers thought about what would happen on the extreme case if a coil takes a dump and feeds everything back into the ecu.

    I did grab the signal from the gate of the IGBT. I did bypass the IGBT fully by un-soldering the gate and emitter legs. I then jump the gate to the drain. There are resistors near each IGBT's but I'm not sure if they are connected to the gate leg. I will find out tonight after work.

    I did use INPA to look for error codes, none were shown.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sunnyjay Click here to enlarge
    I wonder if anyone has try to tap the 5v logic signal directly to drive the r8 coils? I tried and I was not successful in getting the car running. I need to get my scope back from my friend to see what is going on with the signal. I believe current might not be enough to drive coil. Any thoughts on this?
    I tested this a little bit, no reason it shouldn't work. If I get a chance I'll scope the DME output. This is how you should be driving smart coils.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    I tested this a little bit, no reason it shouldn't work. If I get a chance I'll scope the DME output. This is how you should be driving smart coils.
    Sounds like a plan.

  22. #72
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    why do you even need the 5v signal to the gate of the dme igbt? Can't you just give constant 5v+ to the high side of the smart coil and use the DME coil signal ground for the 5v- low side that will act as the trigger?

    Again I'm less versed in electronics but I always thought that switching on the low side was preferred anyway

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by noorj Click here to enlarge
    why do you even need the 5v signal to the gate of the dme igbt? Can't you just give constant 5v+ to the high side of the smart coil and use the DME coil signal ground for the 5v- low side that will act as the trigger?
    Again I'm less versed in electronics but I always thought that switching on the low side was preferred anyway
    I believe V8bait mention it on page 2. IGBT is built into the R8 coil which requires the 5V high signal for triggering. The MSD80 has the IGBT built into the ecu and it switches the ground of the dumb coil.
    This is what V8bait said:
    The 5v signal you need for smart coils is a high signal. It's a TTL falling edge signal, square wave. The same signal the DME sends to the built in transistor in the DME. You need that signal for smart coils.
    But you don't have that signal since the DME has the smart part built in. You have the switched ground, a low "signal". It's analog basically, as it's intended to directly charge a dumb coil.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sunnyjay Click here to enlarge
    I believe V8bait mention it on page 2. IGBT is built into the R8 coil which requires the 5V high signal for triggering. The MSD80 has the IGBT built into the ecu and it switches the ground of the dumb coil.
    This is what V8bait said:
    The 5v signal you need for smart coils is a high signal. It's a TTL falling edge signal, square wave. The same signal the DME sends to the built in transistor in the DME. You need that signal for smart coils.
    But you don't have that signal since the DME has the smart part built in. You have the switched ground, a low "signal". It's analog basically, as it's intended to directly charge a dumb coil.
    I get what you're saying, but having a 5v constant high with a low "signal" ground from the dme would be a square wave. It's just that the high current ground would now be a low current signal ground for the 5v signal, so it would probably throw DME codes for faulty coils/low current

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by noorj Click here to enlarge
    I get what you're saying, but having a 5v constant high with a low "signal" ground from the dme would be a square wave. It's just that the high current ground would now be a low current signal ground for the 5v signal, so it would probably throw DME codes for faulty coils/low current
    The answer to this is yes it will work and you should not do this. It's not how transistors are designed to work (you need a low noise ground there that's constant). You will have less output from the coil doing it like this, lag in either charging or discharging, and you'll probably kill the chip in short order. If you're lucky it just won't work.

    @sunnyjay what are your grounds like, that could be why your test didn't work. I should be able to scope later this week for you but my notes had this base down as a TTL signal with varied pwm.

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