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    • S55 vs S65 Round 3, what a difference an SC kit makes - Active Autowerke Level III supercharged E92 M3 vs BMS JB4 F82 M4

      Yet another battle in the ongoing war between the new M3/M4 S55 inline-6 and the previous generation E9X M3 S65 V8. As BimmerBoost stated runs between these cars on stock internals will go back and forth depending on the modifications. This particular run certainly illustrates that point.


      The first round featured an E90 M3 DCT with an ESS-Tuning supercharger kit pulling a BMS tuned F80 M3. The second round posted earlier this week had the BMS F80 M3 test car pull an ESS-Tuning VT2-650 supercharged E92 M3 DCT. As is customary when an ESS-Tuning car loses, the owner provided excuses but what happened, happened.

      So what is the result when an Active Autowerke Level III supercharger kit gets into the mix against a BMS JB4 tuned F82 M4? What you see below. The Active Autowerke Level III kit puts up a much better showing than the ESS-Tuning supercharger kit. The Rotrex blower certainly appears in practice to offer the greater area under the curve it shows on paper.

      Frankly, it is difficult to see just how hard the Active Autowerke Level III equipped M3 pulls up top as it moves out of the camera angle on the M4 rather quickly.

      The point ultimately though is that different tunes, forced induction setups, supporting modifications, transmission, etc., are all huge factors in determining the outcome between the S65 and S55. It is not as simple as saying tuned S55 versus supercharged S65 and so and so will happen. The comparison is far more complex and as the Active Autowerke Level III car illustrates a different supercharger head unit on the stock internal S65 produces a completely different result.

      Back and forth we go.


      This article was originally published in forum thread: S55 vs S65 Round 3, what a difference an SC kit makes - Active Autowerke Level III supercharged E92 M3 vs BMS JB4 F82 M4 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 46 Comments
      1. Andrew@activeautowerke's Avatar
        Andrew@activeautowerke -
        Click here to enlarge
      1. hkninja's Avatar
        hkninja -
        Props to AA. But you are not spending nearly as much $$$ to get it close to that AA E92M. F80 still best bang for your buck tho...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hkninja Click here to enlarge
        Props to AA. But you are not spending nearly as much $$$ to get it close to that AA E92M. F80 still best bang for your buck tho...
        What does an F80 M3 cost versus a used E90 M3 and an SC kit again?

        What do you do with the F80 if you want more HP? Nothing at the moment. It's stuck, the E9X isn't.
      1. hkninja's Avatar
        hkninja -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        What does an F80 M3 cost versus a used E90 M3 and an SC kit again?

        What do you do with the F80 if you want more HP? Nothing at the moment. It's stuck, the E9X isn't.
        How much is a stage 3 kit? I really think you will make a more reliable power on F80 than E90 since they are already built for FI. IMO F80 is sexier! :p
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hkninja Click here to enlarge
        I really think you will make a more reliable power on F80 than E90 since they are already built for FI.
        Why isn't it making more power then? You'll make more power on the larger motor that revs higher.

        The Level III kit is whatever AA is pricing it at right now. Point being a used E9X M3 + SC kit is cheaper than a new F80 M3.

        If all you want to do is a tune and leave it there the F80 M3 makes a lot of sense. If you want a bigger motor with more capability and more advanced aftermarket at this time the E9X M3 makes a lot of sense.
      1. hkninja's Avatar
        hkninja -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Why isn't it making more power then? You'll make more power on the larger motor that revs higher.

        The Level III kit is whatever AA is pricing it at right now. Point being a used E9X M3 + SC kit is cheaper than a new F80 M3.

        If all you want to do is a tune and leave it there the F80 M3 makes a lot of sense. If you want a bigger motor with more capability and more advanced aftermarket at this time the E9X M3 makes a lot of sense.

        Price is going to drop on the F80 soon or later. More and more products will come out as well. I can't wait to see how high it will climb on this WHP war.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hkninja Click here to enlarge
        Price is going to drop on the F80 soon or later. More and more products will come out as well. I can't wait to see how high it will climb on this WHP war.
        Of course, natural progression. It will take time but I think I know what already won the WHP war.
      1. boostedmaserati's Avatar
        boostedmaserati -
        Damn that S65 sounds righteous
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        LOL the argument that it costs less to buy a f8x m over a e9x m + supercharger is silly. Come on people, a 08 e92 m3 can be found for $33-$36K. A supercharger is $8-$10k.

        It is impressive how quick the new M is with a tune and e85 / race fuel. It is interesting where it will go from there though. The two problems I see are the ECU still not being cracked (tuning can only go so far) and the fact that the VTT turbo f8x m3 actually lost power or made no more than a stock car.

        I don't think it will be as easy as adding larger turbo's. The tuning, fueling, etc. will need to be worked out.
      1. boostedmaserati's Avatar
        boostedmaserati -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        LOL the argument that it costs less to buy a f8x m over a e9x m + supercharger is silly. Come on people, a 08 e92 m3 can be found for $33-$36K. A supercharger is $8-$10k.

        It is impressive how quick the new M is with a tune and e85 / race fuel. It is interesting where it will go from there though. The two problems I see are the ECU still not being cracked (tuning can only go so far) and the fact that the VTT turbo f8x m3 actually lost power or made no more than a stock car.

        I don't think it will be as easy as adding larger turbo's. The tuning, fueling, etc. will need to be worked out.
        + rep for an intelligent post
      1. BlackJetE90OC's Avatar
        BlackJetE90OC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hkninja Click here to enlarge
        Props to AA. But you are not spending nearly as much $$$ to get it close to that AA E92M. F80 still best bang for your buck tho...
        I think you have mistaken this for the N54 section.

        That argument doesn't apply here.
      1. Tony@VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        Tony@VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        LOL the argument that it costs less to buy a f8x m over a e9x m + supercharger is silly. Come on people, a 08 e92 m3 can be found for $33-$36K. A supercharger is $8-$10k.

        It is impressive how quick the new M is with a tune and e85 / race fuel. It is interesting where it will go from there though. The two problems I see are the ECU still not being cracked (tuning can only go so far) and the fact that the VTT turbo f8x m3 actually lost power or made no more than a stock car.

        I don't think it will be as easy as adding larger turbo's. The tuning, fueling, etc. will need to be worked out.
        The stage 1 turbos were a complete and total experiment, the stock turbos are TINY, that they are able to hold 27 psi to redline is bananas, we had a very strong feeling the stage 1's would make the same power as stock, but we of course hoped we would be wrong, but we wanted to start there and work our way up. Putting a proper set of stage 2's in there which is the next step, will open up some power on these cars, how much remains to be seen. But your argument sure sounds a lot like the one I made on the N54 vs S65 E9X's not too long ago...Click here to enlarge
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        The s55 seems like a strong engine, but when you strap a blower to a high-revving bigger displacement v8 I don't think it will be able to consistently compete. Granted it depends on the set up, active will always be near the top of the pack, gintani is another solid chouice, but I feel like we just caught the ess guys at the wrong time. At least right now it seem like if you want quick relatively cheap power s55/n54, but if you want high hp builds s54/s65... or the third option I guess is a single turbo n54 if you want high hp but not be able to use it ...dynon queen
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
        but I feel like we just caught the ess guys at the wrong time
        Like in the real world instead of on a forum thread?
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        Haha I don't know maybe they are all bark and no bite, but their s54 platform supercharges have proven to be pretty quick. I know the s54 has nothing to do with the s65 kit, but I would like to think their s65 kits are just as capable... I could be wrong though.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
        Haha I don't know maybe they are all bark and no bite, but their s54 platform supercharges have proven to be pretty quick. I know the s54 has nothing to do with the s65 kit, but I would like to think their s65 kits are just as capable... I could be wrong though.
        Like I stated they aren't bad but they are not what they are portrayed to be. Honestly, ESS was nothing special for years until somehow the E9X platform came around and somehow they become tuning gods overnight. Amazing how forum sponsorship decides who the best is.
      1. MonsterM3's Avatar
        MonsterM3 -
        Currently the E9x M3 is your best 3 series bang for the buck. This is Vs N54 or S55 as well. the price of decently priced ones +s/c is looking at around $45k for a true 550 realistic HP, and you already have all the essential M bits. an N54 can be had for less and make more "hp" with similar pricing, but then add the "M" bits or aftermarket equivalent for the total package, and then as we are seeing, its HP is not being put down properly. Conversely, the S55 is in the $70-80k with a few hundred $ in parts and strong, but not quite strong enough just yet. Obviously an M, but from every review its nothing superior to the E9x M in terms of platform, minus different motor.

        oh, and neither 6 cyl will ever sound as awesome as the S65 Click here to enlarge
      1. boostedmaserati's Avatar
        boostedmaserati -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MonsterM3 Click here to enlarge
        Currently the E9x M3 is your best 3 series bang for the buck. This is Vs N54 or S55 as well. the price of decently priced ones +s/c is looking at around $45k for a true 550 realistic HP, and you already have all the essential M bits. an N54 can be had for less and make more "hp" with similar pricing, but then add the "M" bits or aftermarket equivalent for the total package, and then as we are seeing, its HP is not being put down properly. Conversely, the S55 is in the $70-80k with a few hundred $ in parts and strong, but not quite strong enough just yet. Obviously an M, but from every review its nothing superior to the E9x M in terms of platform, minus different motor.

        oh, and neither 6 cyl will ever sound as awesome as the S65 Click here to enlarge
        Agreed on everything said here. + rep for you sir
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Agreed... If i'm looking for over 500whp, i'm not looking at a n54/n55 car. You need a diff, suspension, brakes, tranny upgrades, fueling, wheel/tires, fbo's and any single turbo or the VTT twin upgrade. They pull impressive dyno's but so far, thats it. Besides terry's car, they don't show up at roll race events, are always being worked on and always having some kind of issue.

        With the M, add a sc kit and your good. Honestly, you need nothing else. Everything else is just icing on the cake. Its consistent/reliable power. My car has been supercharged for a year, i've never touched it, no fueling problems, no codes, nothing, just one fast fing M
      1. boostedmaserati's Avatar
        boostedmaserati -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        Agreed... If i'm looking for over 500whp, i'm not looking at a n54/n55 car. You need a diff, suspension, brakes, tranny upgrades, fueling, wheel/tires, fbo's and any single turbo or the VTT twin upgrade. They pull impressive dyno's but so far, thats it. Besides terry's car, they don't show up at roll race events, are always being worked on and always having some kind of issue.

        With the M, add a sc kit and your good. Honestly, you need nothing else. Everything else is just icing on the cake. Its consistent/reliable power. My car has been supercharged for a year, i've never touched it, no fueling problems, no codes, nothing, just one fast fing M
        Damn right, the S65 has been Honda reliable lol. The N54 not to bash, has had it's share of issues. I truly suspect the S55 will too. Not to take away from what they've done and how capable they are, but I'm not building a car to make 2 dyno pulls and become a lawn ornament and constant annoyance.