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    • The 2021 G80 BMW M3 will be well over 600 horsepower stock - Heavily underrated F98 X4M Competition S58 dyno shows 520 all wheel horsepower

      If you are not aware BMW is heavily sandbagging output with turbo M motors then you simply have not been paying attention for the past decade. Here is yet another example in the new 2020 BMW F98 X4M Competition and its S58 motor which is rated at 503 horsepower.


      Well, here it is making 520 horsepower to all four wheels in Arizona 119 degree heat on 91 octane pump gas:


      BMW's horsepower ratings are just a joke at this point. They say 503 at the crank and it has more than that at all four wheels. This is easily a 600+ horsepower car.

      Even if you go with conservative 15% drivetrain losses which are traditionally reserved on a Dynojet for a RWD manual vehicle that would mean output is 611 crank horsepower. If you go with 20% losses, we are talking 650 horsepower.

      The G80 M3 gets this same S58 motor and basic drivetrain in a lighter package. 600+ horsepower only makes sense. Why? BMW since the E46 M3 increases horsepower by approximately 75 whp each generation. They simply started sandbagging with the F80 M3 massively.

      E46 M3 - 275 whp
      E92 M3 - 350 whp
      F80 M3 - 425 whp
      G80 M3 - ~500 awhp

      The E92 M3 to F80 M3 horsepower rating went from 414 to 425 at the crank. Yet, wheel output increased by 75+ horses. Explain that.

      With the G80 prepare for a dragster that will be well into the 10's tune only.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: The 2021 G80 BMW M3 will be well over 600 horsepower stock - Heavily underrated F98 X4M Competition S58 dyno shows 520 all wheel horsepower started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 65 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Assuming sea level:

        Your Horsepower computed from your vehicle weight of 4750 pounds and MPH of 114 is 542.26.
      1. Weehe's Avatar
        Weehe -
        You honestly think BMW maxed out the turbo at redline and the only gains with a tune would be in the mid range? That's next level crazy. Every single turbo BMW has been able to hold more boost at redline with a tune.
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Weehe Click here to enlarge
        You honestly think BMW maxed out the turbo at redline and the only gains with a tune would be in the mid range? That's next level crazy. Every single turbo BMW has been able to hold more boost at redline with a tune.
        It will make more boost and power once the midrange 5-6rpm is tuned, it does not have the steam to hold that kind of boost to redline and heat becomes an issue resulting in less comparable power:

        JB4 S55–> look at the dyno, the more boost you throw at it with the higher maps the higher the hp in the 5-5.5k range, but regardless of the map all the tunes make more or less the same power in the 6-7k range cause the turbos have nothing left and are just throwing heat lol. Case closed

        Attachment 59427
      1. Weehe's Avatar
        Weehe -
        Every turbo will make more power in lower rpms if it is maxed out across the rev range. To keep saying that the S58 will not make any more power than stock at 7k rpms is just stupid.
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Never said it wont make any more power than stock at 7k. Click here to enlarge

        Look at the dyno chart from the most popular s55 tuner, it says it all and stop bustin ballz
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Assuming sea level:

        Your Horsepower computed from your vehicle weight of 4750 pounds and MPH of 114 is 542.26.
        I was thinking it was a ~4,300lb car for some reason, but I might have been looking at the base X4... Dyno numbers are getting tricker and trickier to rely on, especially when the measurement is made in bad conditions (like it being extremely hot, in this case). New ECU's are smart and they can compensate for heat and altitude to make perfect weather condition on any given day in any given place. This dyno, however, is still correcting back to sea level.

        There is no doubt this is a fast car making good power, but I don't think that 520whp number is accurate. Will it make 520whp at sea level with a tune? I'd be surprised if it didn't, but I don't think it will run numbers that back up that power in stock form.
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        I was thinking it was a ~4,300lb car for some reason, but I might have been looking at the base X4... Dyno numbers are getting tricker and trickier to rely on, especially when the measurement is made in bad conditions (like it being extremely hot, in this case). New ECU's are smart and they can compensate for heat and altitude to make perfect weather condition on any given day in any given place. This dyno, however, is still correcting back to sea level.

        There is no doubt this is a fast car making good power, but I don't think that 520whp number is accurate. Will it make 520whp at sea level with a tune? I'd be surprised if it didn't, but I don't think it will run numbers that back up that power in stock form.
        They will pull timing/boost in heat (high iats) —> colder more dense air will always make more power, especially on a turbo car. Dynojet hp numbers are rubbish.
      1. Eleventeen's Avatar
        Eleventeen -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blown6 Click here to enlarge
        Stock S55 tapers boost in the midrange to make the buildup of power continuous to 7600. Remove the taper in the midrange (ie more boost) with a tune and you will make more peak power but at lower rpms ie 6k with really no point revving to redline like stock as you will not hold the torque/effective higher boost to redline with those pee-shooter compressor wheels....

        Same thing here.
        Not sure what info you are basing this on, but the S55 is definitely not having any issues holding higher boost to redline on the stock tune. Here is a log I have from my stock F80 on stock tune. Notice WG duty cycle is only 80% at redline:

        Attachment 59429
        Attachment 59430

        And now a custom tune I was working on for my car (timing not yet dialed in), that clearly shows much more boost than stock near redline, and WD duty cycle is still only at 84% at 20+ psi:

        Attachment 59431
        Attachment 59432

        Clearly the S55 turbos are capable of much more boost to redline than the stock tune allows. Honestly, the IAT's look pretty good, too. Are they outside of their efficiency range? Probably. Does that mean they are maxed out from from the factory? No. For the purpose of reliability (among other reasons), I highly doubt the S58 turbos will be maxed out in the upper RPM's on the stock tune, either.
      1. Eleventeen's Avatar
        Eleventeen -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blown6 Click here to enlarge
        Bmw is not tapering boost, the turbos are running out of steam at upper rpms which is normal for a stock turbo motor. As a matter of fact, the stock turbos are holding torque/effective boost better than most other mainstream turbo motors....
        And you are correct that they are not tapering the actual boost pressure downward on the S55, but they are tapering load target (and therefore WG duty cycle) downward, so they are limiting the amount of boost the turbos are making at redline. The turbos will make more boost if you let them. To say with certainty what's going on with the S58, we will need to see a log.
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
        And you are correct that they are not tapering the actual boost pressure downward on the S55, but they are tapering load target (and therefore WG duty cycle) downward, so they are limiting the amount of boost the turbos are making at redline. The turbos will make more boost if you let them. To say with certainty what's going on with the S58, we will need to see a log.
        Most of the power gains are in the 5-6k range with gains up to 100hp, yes there are gains to be had near redline with a tune (look at jb4 below) but they are negligible(20-40hp) depending on the map, if you want the quickest times you will stay ~5-6k where the average hp is higher than if you were to let it ride to 6.5k+. A turbo upgrade would allow higher power near redline as the higher maps have consumed whatever the stock turbos have left at 7k+

        Attachment 59437
      1. Weehe's Avatar
        Weehe -
        I don't even understand what you are trying to argue anymore.
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Weehe Click here to enlarge
        I don't even understand what you are trying to argue anymore.
        I don’t think you ever understood....Click here to enlarge
      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -
        Bigger turbos will turn the s58 into a certified monster
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Fuel-IT has their S58 X4M in to the 10s already JB4 only... Imagine in a lighter car? New M3 is going to be nuts.
      1. subaru335i's Avatar
        subaru335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
        Fuel-IT has their S58 X4M in to the 10s already JB4 only... Imagine in a lighter car? New M3 is going to be nuts.
        Or if Toyota have the balls to put the S58 in the Supra!
        IIRC BMW said they will/would let Toyota have it if they want it....
      1. lamboworld's Avatar
        lamboworld -
        Wonder why BMW decided to not use direct and port injection in this motor.
      1. Eleventeen's Avatar
        Eleventeen -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lamboworld Click here to enlarge
        Wonder why BMW decided to not use direct and port injection in this motor.
        My question is why would they use port and direct injection? DI is newer, better technology and will provide plenty of fuel on its own if designed correctly. I think the only reason other manufacturers have gone that route is because they don’t fully have a handle on DI yet. BMW seems to have it pretty worked out at this point.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
        BMW seems to have it pretty worked out at this point.
        Really? The n54 guys still can't seem to figure out how to make decent power with it 10 years later... DI is great for OEM power levels and that's about it. Dual injection is a best of both worlds solution and I'd imagine anyone that plans to tune a car would ask for it in a platform.


        Th
      1. Eleventeen's Avatar
        Eleventeen -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        Really? The n54 guys still can't seem to figure out how to make decent power with it 10 years later... DI is great for OEM power levels and that's about it. Dual injection is a best of both worlds solution and I'd imagine anyone that plans to tune a car would ask for it in a platform.


        Th
        That fuel system is a 13 year old design that BMW moved on from years ago. The newer DI sytems are much better. Also, why would BMW spend money to build a fuel system that reaches well beyond OEM power?
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
        Also, why would BMW spend money to build a fuel system that reaches well beyond OEM power?
        Who cares? Audi/VW group and GM are doing it with spectacular results in the aftermarket. Most DI only systems are tapped out before a stock frame turbo is maxed out which is pretty limiting if you want to modify the car.