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    • The 2021 G80 BMW M3 will be well over 600 horsepower stock - Heavily underrated F98 X4M Competition S58 dyno shows 520 all wheel horsepower

      If you are not aware BMW is heavily sandbagging output with turbo M motors then you simply have not been paying attention for the past decade. Here is yet another example in the new 2020 BMW F98 X4M Competition and its S58 motor which is rated at 503 horsepower.


      Well, here it is making 520 horsepower to all four wheels in Arizona 119 degree heat on 91 octane pump gas:


      BMW's horsepower ratings are just a joke at this point. They say 503 at the crank and it has more than that at all four wheels. This is easily a 600+ horsepower car.

      Even if you go with conservative 15% drivetrain losses which are traditionally reserved on a Dynojet for a RWD manual vehicle that would mean output is 611 crank horsepower. If you go with 20% losses, we are talking 650 horsepower.

      The G80 M3 gets this same S58 motor and basic drivetrain in a lighter package. 600+ horsepower only makes sense. Why? BMW since the E46 M3 increases horsepower by approximately 75 whp each generation. They simply started sandbagging with the F80 M3 massively.

      E46 M3 - 275 whp
      E92 M3 - 350 whp
      F80 M3 - 425 whp
      G80 M3 - ~500 awhp

      The E92 M3 to F80 M3 horsepower rating went from 414 to 425 at the crank. Yet, wheel output increased by 75+ horses. Explain that.

      With the G80 prepare for a dragster that will be well into the 10's tune only.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: The 2021 G80 BMW M3 will be well over 600 horsepower stock - Heavily underrated F98 X4M Competition S58 dyno shows 520 all wheel horsepower started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 65 Comments
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        I'll believe these numbers as soon as I see a 120mph trap. Do we know if the Dyno was correcting for the heat?
        So in your mind a Trackhawk isn't making 707 hp because it traps 114?
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky2 Click here to enlarge
        So in your mind a Trackhawk isn't making 707 hp because it traps 114?
        No... That's pretty damn accurate for a 5,550 lb race weight and 707 hp. Knock a few mph off for drag and it's spot on.

        Attachment 59363
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Youre playing with the weight and it's still 3 mph high.

        Calculators are just estimates.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky2 Click here to enlarge
        Youre playing with the weight and it's still 3 mph high.

        Calculators are just estimates.
        How am I playing with weight? Curb is 5,363 and you add a driver. They're estimates, but the x4m hasnt run anything in the ballpark of proving out this Dyno reading.

        My car put down 560whp on a Dyno and I won't hesitate to say that number is BS until I see a 130mph trap.
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        It's not about peak torque. It's about maintaining torque. If the turbos could flow the air to make that 446ftlb at 7,000 rpm the car would be making nearly 600whp.

        The table you posted is ridiculous. Boost dictates torque. RPM determines horsepower.
        Well its not maintaining torque so thats that.

        And that table is with optimal efficiency meaning little restriction from exhaust and optimal cooling/airflow.

        Your providing answers in peacemeal—> hp=torque*rpm/5252
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blown6 Click here to enlarge
        And that table is with optimal efficiency meaning little restriction from exhaust and optimal cooling/airflow.

        Your providing answers in peacemeal—> hp=torque*rpm/5252
        Exactly. What rpm is that that table reflecting? 20lbs at 4,000 and 7,000 rpm are two very different things.
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        Exactly. What rpm is that that table reflecting? 20lbs at 4,000 and 7,000 rpm are two very different things.
        Yes, its 7k
      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blown6 Click here to enlarge
        Well its not maintaining torque so thats that.
        Would you expect something different from a stock turbo setup where they care more about throttle response and reducing turbo lag? The GTR and most stock turbo cars have the similar looking dynos...
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bowser330 Click here to enlarge
        Would you expect something different from a stock turbo setup where they care more about throttle response and reducing turbo lag? The GTR and most stock turbo cars have the similar looking dynos...
        Well thats what i’m saying, stock turbos have to provide the best of both worlds so there is no way they are holding 20+Psi to redline stock....
      1. Eleventeen's Avatar
        Eleventeen -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blown6 Click here to enlarge
        Well thats what iím saying, stock turbos have to provide the best of both worlds so there is no way they are holding 20+Psi to redline stock....
        The stock S55 turbos can hold 20+ psi to redline, so Iím sure the S58 will be able to as well. The problem is outlet temperature of that air. They probably wonít do it efficiently.
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Can anyone confirm if these platforms are truly running 32 peak psi of boost (33.4 psi in Competition models)?

        source:

        https://autoweek.com/article/car-rev...-velvet-hammer
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blown6 Click here to enlarge
        Can anyone confirm if these platforms are truly running 32 peak psi of boost (33.4 psi in Competition models)?

        source:

        https://autoweek.com/article/car-rev...-velvet-hammer
        That is a LOT of boost for not a huge amount of power. Maybe they mistakingly included atmospheric in their equation?
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Finally we have a stock boost log, just as suspected this x3m is making up to 23psi peak and tapering down to 19psi at 7k rpm and lower as it reaches redline. Looks like the stock turbo will need considerably more boost to hit 600 real whp —>

        Attachment 59397
      1. Eleventeen's Avatar
        Eleventeen -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blown6 Click here to enlarge
        Finally we have a stock boost log, just as suspected this x3m is making up to 23psi peak and tapering down to 19psi at 7k rpm and lower as it reaches redline. Looks like the stock turbo will need considerably more boost to hit 600 real whp ó>

        Attachment 59397
        The IATís arenít too bad for 23psi, even as it reaches redline; thatís promising. I imagine BMW is tapering boost downward toward redline like they do with all of their turbo I6 engines. Turn up the boost and it should easily make even more power.
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
        The IAT’s aren’t too bad for 23psi, even as it reaches redline; that’s promising. I imagine BMW is tapering boost downward toward redline like they do with all of their turbo I6 engines. Turn up the boost and it should easily make even more power.
        Bmw is not tapering boost, the turbos are running out of steam at upper rpms which is normal for a stock turbo motor. As a matter of fact, the stock turbos are holding torque/effective boost better than most other mainstream turbo motors....
      1. Eleventeen's Avatar
        Eleventeen -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blown6 Click here to enlarge
        Bmw is not tapering boost, the turbos are running out of steam at upper rpms which is normal for a stock turbo motor. As a matter of fact, the stock turbos are holding torque/effective boost better than most other mainstream turbo motors....
        How do you know that? Have you looked at the load tables in the stock tune or logged WG duty cycle? I can tell you for a fact that the stock S55 maps taper boost intentionally, and I would be very surprised if the S58 tune didnít do the same.
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
        How do you know that? Have you looked at the load tables in the stock tune or logged WG duty cycle? I can tell you for a fact that the stock S55 maps taper boost intentionally, and I would be very surprised if the S58 tune didn’t do the same.
        Stock S55 tapers boost in the midrange to make the buildup of power continuous to 7600. Remove the taper in the midrange (ie more boost) with a tune and you will make more peak power but at lower rpms ie 6k with really no point revving to redline like stock as you will not hold the torque/effective higher boost to redline with those pee-shooter compressor wheels....

        Same thing here.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BLKROKT Click here to enlarge
        Are you saying that BMW is sandbagging hp on cars that are already consistently underperforming and underwhelming in independent tests? Unlikely.
        BMW is kicking the crap out of AMG with less displacement. What are you talking about?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by richpike Click here to enlarge
        Not to say this motor isnít underrated (because it is), but the old drivetrain loss figures just really donít apply anymore. There is such a focus on efficiency that Iíd bet losses are closer to 5-10% now. Even for AWD. Torque converter lock up almost immediately. AWD isnít really AWD unless it detects a slip. Tesla got another 20 miles of range by switching wheel bearings. Drivetrains have just become far more efficient. That doesnít mean this isnít underrated - it clearly is if the whp is more than the rated crank HP, but I donít think itís a 600+HP engine.

        -Rich
        I have to disagree here.

        A manual is more efficient than a DCT as far as drivetrain losses are concerned. So how do you explain modern DCT BMW's showing far less drivetrain loss on turbo M cars based on the crank rating?

        The DCT has pumping losses and the wet clutches. A dry clutch DCT is more efficient than a wet and the dry is almost on par with a manual trans as far as losses are concerned.

        The cars are simply making much more power today.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        How am I playing with weight? Curb is 5,363 and you add a driver. They're estimates, but the x4m hasnt run anything in the ballpark of proving out this Dyno reading.

        My car put down 560whp on a Dyno and I won't hesitate to say that number is BS until I see a 130mph trap.
        You got 116.74 when it does 114 stock. Seems to me it is reading high for the Trackhawk. Like I said, it's an estimate based on HP and weight and there are far more factors.

        Also, the higher the hp the more the calculator is off as there are geometric factors to consider. Wind resistance becomes a larger factor for these vehicles.

        What weight did you use for the X4M?