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Thread: M3 SMG issue?

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    M3 SMG issue?

    First off, just want to thank everyone/anyone in advance who responds to this question, it is much appreciated.

    I have an e46 M3 with SMG, and have noticed lately when starting from a dead stop, while in 1st gear - the car will sometimes accelerate in "pulses" until I reach about 5 MPH or so... What I mean when I say "pulse", is that the car sort of feels like the clutch has not engaged properly for the first few moments as the car accelerates (sort of like a shudder).

    When the car was under warranty, I ran into this issue a few times - only after driving the car hard, when it was hot outside and only when there were many starts from 0 involved. I explained the issue to my local BMW dealer (who I have many terrible things to say about - for another place, another time I suppose), and they explained that it could be build up on the flywheel/clutch, like a "glaze" similar to what can adhere onto brake discs (how they explained it almost verbatim). They also said that it wouldn't make sense to open things up to grind off this "glaze" - just to find that I didn't need a new clutch due to the fact that it would take care of itself over time (so they said). This made some sense at the time, as after some aggressive driving at high speeds - the problem seemed to dissipate.

    Issue is, the car is out of warranty - and now the problem is much much worse. While in sport mode - the problem is exasperated... After driving in the city, it tends to get worse with time... When the car is first used - after things are up to "normal" temperatures, the clutch (or whatever it is) seems to be okay - in other words, I don't experience the issue until I have driven either very aggressively in stop and go traffic, or the outside temperature is very high and I have been in stop and go traffic for a decent amount of time.

    I have performed the "SMG Reset" multiple times (i.e. pull both paddles in for a few seconds in N when going over 40 MPH) to see if that was a remedy, but this didn't seem to help anything. My basic question(s) are, do you think it is the clutch? If so, I don't understand why I can perform a 1-2 shift with DCS off, the transmission in the highest setting (S6) without a hint of clutch slip (the first thing to give is tires). This is why I think it might be something other than the clutch. If this is true, does anyone have any ideas on what it could be? Is there anything else I can do to "recalibrate" the SMG computer? Can it be an SMG pressure issue?

    Just trying to see what it could be based on someone else's experiences. I would appreciate any help I can get - as I don't feel like going to the dealer and hearing them say I need 10 things, when it might be something simple.

    I sure love SMG, and cannot wait until I try out DSG - but this problem sure it annoying. I am hoping it's the clutch - but, like I said - that 1-2 shift is what makes me think it's not.

    Cheers.

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    Where are you located?

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    If your stealership is a bunch of retarts. I'd look for a good another shop.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Where are you located?
    Illinois - Chicagoland area

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
    If your stealership is a bunch of retarts. I'd look for a good another shop.
    Yeah, they haven't been the best - that's for sure. They are the sort that think they know it all and the customer is an idiot; I had an issue with the driveshaft (guibo/subframe tear), I had to bring the car in 4 times to get it taken care of properly. I even printed out TSBs, forum posts, etc. to "back me up" - but they replaced everything but what needed replacing until the final time when they replaced what all the data/the customer was pointing to...

    I now, most likely, have a bad flywheel and clutch - and it would have been covered when the issue first arose; problem is, they would have had to admit the customer was right for it to get repaired - seems like that's a policy they don't like to adhere to. Click here to enlarge

    Based on what I have dug up on Google so far, it looks like might be the throwout bearing not sliding in and out of the input sleeve (binding?) - thereby not allowing the clutch to engage. Not sure about this - as it seems like this would occur in all gears under heavy load? Thoughts?

    I honestly do not know too much about the intricacies of a gearbox, much less so when SMG is in play... Not even sure if the above sentence makes technical sense - just repeating what I have read so far... Hoping one of you have experienced this/can diagnose/etc.

    Thanks for the reply.

    Cheers.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Based on what I have dug up on Google so far, it looks like might be the throwout bearing not sliding in and out of the input sleeve (binding?) - thereby not allowing the clutch to engage. Not sure about this - as it seems like this would occur in all gears under heavy load? Thoughts?

    I honestly do not know too much about the intricacies of a gearbox, much less so when SMG is in play... Not even sure if the above sentence makes technical sense - just repeating what I have read so far... Hoping one of you have experienced this/can diagnose/etc.
    I can see your apprehension on being out of warranty, but someone is going to have to take a look at it.

    It could be the throwout bearing and that is a good place to start. Not really sure either to be honest but we do have a BMW tech here, DLV-Engineering, so I would pm him and see what he says.

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    Great - thanks for the reply. I am actually off to the dealer as I write this... Going to check out the e9x M - maybe I'll just trade up. Click here to enlarge

    If not, I'll PM him after.

    Thanks again.

    Cheers.

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    Click here to enlarge trade up is always good, if not, definitely get it checked out. Keep us posted!

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    First off, just want to thank everyone/anyone in advance who responds to this question, it is much appreciated.

    I have an e46 M3 with SMG, and have noticed lately when starting from a dead stop, while in 1st gear - the car will sometimes accelerate in "pulses" until I reach about 5 MPH or so... What I mean when I say "pulse", is that the car sort of feels like the clutch has not engaged properly for the first few moments as the car accelerates (sort of like a shudder).

    When the car was under warranty, I ran into this issue a few times - only after driving the car hard, when it was hot outside and only when there were many starts from 0 involved. I explained the issue to my local BMW dealer (who I have many terrible things to say about - for another place, another time I suppose), and they explained that it could be build up on the flywheel/clutch, like a "glaze" similar to what can adhere onto brake discs (how they explained it almost verbatim). They also said that it wouldn't make sense to open things up to grind off this "glaze" - just to find that I didn't need a new clutch due to the fact that it would take care of itself over time (so they said). This made some sense at the time, as after some aggressive driving at high speeds - the problem seemed to dissipate.

    Issue is, the car is out of warranty - and now the problem is much much worse. While in sport mode - the problem is exasperated... After driving in the city, it tends to get worse with time... When the car is first used - after things are up to "normal" temperatures, the clutch (or whatever it is) seems to be okay - in other words, I don't experience the issue until I have driven either very aggressively in stop and go traffic, or the outside temperature is very high and I have been in stop and go traffic for a decent amount of time.

    I have performed the "SMG Reset" multiple times (i.e. pull both paddles in for a few seconds in N when going over 40 MPH) to see if that was a remedy, but this didn't seem to help anything. My basic question(s) are, do you think it is the clutch? If so, I don't understand why I can perform a 1-2 shift with DCS off, the transmission in the highest setting (S6) without a hint of clutch slip (the first thing to give is tires). This is why I think it might be something other than the clutch. If this is true, does anyone have any ideas on what it could be? Is there anything else I can do to "recalibrate" the SMG computer? Can it be an SMG pressure issue?

    Just trying to see what it could be based on someone else's experiences. I would appreciate any help I can get - as I don't feel like going to the dealer and hearing them say I need 10 things, when it might be something simple.

    I sure love SMG, and cannot wait until I try out DSG - but this problem sure it annoying. I am hoping it's the clutch - but, like I said - that 1-2 shift is what makes me think it's not.

    Cheers.
    pulling the paddles back is not a true SMG "RESET" all that does is reset the "learning of your driving style"

    it sounds to me like you just need to "re-teach" your clutch, i have had to do this many times. you need access to a GT-1 or equivalent, or if you want to DIY the Auto Enginuity package.

    also there is a relay for the SMG pump/accumulator under the DME cover (dont remember which one off hand but you can search for it easily)......that relay is also known to cause all different kinds of "quirks". its easy and cheap enough to replace that I would start there.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TwinturboM3
    I bang the chickens on my farm 60-130 times a day.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
    pulling the paddles back is not a true SMG "RESET" all that does is reset the "learning of your driving style"

    it sounds to me like you just need to "re-teach" your clutch, i have had to do this many times. you need access to a GT-1 or equivalent, or if you want to DIY the Auto Enginuity package.

    also there is a relay for the SMG pump/accumulator under the DME cover (dont remember which one off hand but you can search for it easily)......that relay is also known to cause all different kinds of "quirks". its easy and cheap enough to replace that I would start there.
    if i was super serious id try things in this order. replace smg relay, smg fluid flush(pentosin), then the gt1 smg recalibration (run both programs). then take it for a hard drive, then pull the paddles and see what happens over the next couple of days and compare. goodluck

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    Good advice in here. Thanks.

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    i think its the flywheel.. seen this alot at my dealer.. flywheel fixes the problem

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
    pulling the paddles back is not a true SMG "RESET" all that does is reset the "learning of your driving style"

    it sounds to me like you just need to "re-teach" your clutch, i have had to do this many times. you need access to a GT-1 or equivalent, or if you want to DIY the Auto Enginuity package.

    also there is a relay for the SMG pump/accumulator under the DME cover (dont remember which one off hand but you can search for it easily)......that relay is also known to cause all different kinds of "quirks". its easy and cheap enough to replace that I would start there.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    if i was super serious id try things in this order. replace smg relay, smg fluid flush(pentosin), then the gt1 smg recalibration (run both programs). then take it for a hard drive, then pull the paddles and see what happens over the next couple of days and compare. goodluck

    I have read a little about this - looks like I can purchase autoenginuity for 100 (used) on eBay, and from what I understand - this can help the issue. I think it resets the grab point? I think this is my next step. Right before the warranty was up, when I was having all the driveshaft issues, the relay was replaced (forgot about this until now). I will look into changing the fluid and the re-calibratiion ASAP.

    Thanks for the help in advance...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    Good advice in here. Thanks.
    Agreed. Again, thanks everyone for their time, this helps a lot.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Kautiongsr Click here to enlarge
    i think its the flywheel.. seen this alot at my dealer.. flywheel fixes the problem
    Starting to sound like a pretty expensive fix; I will save this for last, although I think this will be the ultimate fix for some reason... Just wish the dealer would have taken care of this while under warranty. I guess for the amount of time*abuse I have put into the car, this is the least I could do. Click here to enlarge

    When the flywheel is replaced, it makes sense to replace the clutch regardless of wear, correct? Not sure - just asking, seems to make sense (bedding in?).

    ------

    Thanks everyone for their time - I will keep you up to date.

    btw, I ended up driving the e9x m3 - OUTSTANDING car. I had it for about 45 minutes without the dealer - although about 15 of these minutes were used to try to convince my girl that it's a smart purchase.

    I will post a quick review (e46 vs e9x) when I have a few minutes. One thing I must say, is that DSG is ridiculous. Awesome technology - I launched (LC) the car out of a tollbooth, the 1-2 shift was so crisp and perfect (almost imperceptible in a way). Also, M-Mode is great - perfect for screwing around while not on a track, but don't want a nanny reining you in when you know better. I digress... Click here to enlarge I'll let you guys know what I thought in a bit.


    Thanks again everyone.

    Cheers.

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    be careful buying a used Auto Enginuity off ebay. they have updated their connectors in the last couple of years, and the new enhanced BMW specific software needs the newer hardware not the older one. you need a connector that says "proline" on it.

    also, you will need the BMW enhanced software to perform the SMG functions.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TwinturboM3
    I bang the chickens on my farm 60-130 times a day.
    Click here to enlarge

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    This post by 5mall5nail5 is hidden due to excessive negative ratings. Click expand to view the post.




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    yea, i'd just have someone with a gt1 do it. why buy an AE off Ebay just to track down extra software in order to run a 2 programs.

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    just had the recalibration done yesterday after replacing the salmon relay (which did fuk all). smg was ghostriding in 1st & reverse :/ and slipping under hard acceleration.
    ran all 4 programs (took over an hour!, last time i remember it only taking 20mins)
    also found my RTABs are shot to sh!t on both sides, worst i've ever seen.
    i highly reccomend this recalibration if your having quirks

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    just had the recalibration done yesterday after replacing the salmon relay (which did fuk all). smg was ghostriding in 1st & reverse :/ and slipping under hard acceleration.
    ran all 4 programs (took over an hour!, last time i remember it only taking 20mins)
    also found my RTABs are shot to sh!t on both sides, worst i've ever seen.
    i highly reccomend this recalibration if your having quirks
    Are you going to Mfest?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Are you going to Mfest?
    yurp. hopefully someone from ESS is too. wanna get that smg flash (then run home, j/k)


    are you going?

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    if sticky isnt going to mfest he should, smallsnails will be building entire BMW's from the ground up out of sheets of sheetmetal in the mfest parking lot...dude has mad skillz yo.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TwinturboM3
    I bang the chickens on my farm 60-130 times a day.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    yurp. hopefully someone from ESS is too. wanna get that smg flash (then run home, j/k)


    are you going?
    Should we set the manifold testing up for after Mfest? Actually you will probably exhausted after all that (hungover) and maybe we should just schedule it for like the first weekend of May or so?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
    if sticky isnt going to mfest he should, smallsnails will be building entire BMW's from the ground up out of sheets of sheetmetal in the mfest parking lot...dude has mad skillz yo.
    Actually I believe he is going to build me an exact replica of my car, completed, so that I may attend.

    Wish I could go, even though Mfest isn't really all that great, simply to hang out around modded BMW's again but I will be missing it again.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Should we set the manifold testing up for after Mfest? Actually you will probably exhausted after all that (hungover) and maybe we should just schedule it for like the first weekend of May or so?
    early may is fine. you should go to mfest anyway. you got to keep up to speed on the FI sewing circle Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    early may is fine. you should go to mfest anyway. you got to keep up to speed on the FI sewing circle Click here to enlarge
    It would drive me nuts to be there without my car. Too many people I want to $#@!slap with it.

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    you should just roll with someone. i'm only going one night and im boycotting TAO so prolly just see if anyone decent is spinning @Dre's afterhours Click here to enlarge then kick rocks late morning

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    you should just roll with someone. i'm only going one night and im boycotting TAO so prolly just see if anyone decent is spinning @Dre's afterhours Click here to enlarge then kick rocks late morning
    Drei's is my favorite place in Vegas although I always tend to lose my wallet and wake up the next day wondering what the hell happened. Good times Click here to enlarge

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