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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I see. What from what was listed still needs to be done or isn't installed yet? Tuning?
    There are just lots of detail things...scavenge pump for the turbo, suspension stuff, exhaust changes, lots of bits for the engine, a cooling system for the transmission, injectors and fuel rail. Then there's the stuff you break when you take a car apart...I'm no different from anybody.

    Tuning is actually easy: Nick G is taking care of that.

    The Technique Tuning kit has really nice hardware right from the start. Increasing power isn't that tough up to a certain point, and even then it's not the kit hardware that's holding you back, it's the support stuff for the engine. (Mainly fuel system, and drivetrain)

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    Tuning is actually easy: Nick G is taking care of that.
    I know Nick G is tuning I was just wondering when this will be taking place? Want to make sure we document the process well which with you I have no doubt that will be the case.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I know Nick G is tuning I was just wondering when this will be taking place? Want to make sure we document the process well which with you I have no doubt that will be the case.
    Haha...not sure if you've seen any of my nitrous tuning threads, but I get into it pretty good with dyno sessions. We're not talking 3 pulls...we're talking a whole day with usually 30 planned pulls and 10 different variables. (I build a dyno plan for what will be tested, and how long we have for each test.) There will be no shortage of documentation on that....

    The testing I'm most looking forward to is actually dialing in the HFS-6.

    The nitrous stuff is just all theory at this point. I want to try doing something that's never been done before, so I'd rather give myself some room to develope the idea and see how it works. Every nitrous guru I've talked to just shakes their head when I explain it...but they admit that it has potential, just that it's outside of what most people want. We'll see how it goes....the hardware is certainly going to be pushed to the limit....I'm now developing a test to see how close we can get to ideal performance with this. The difficult thing has been finding a way to measure the performance, which at this point I'm data logging at 1,000 times per second.
    i

  4. #54
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    Is it going to see the strip? Click here to enlarge

  5. #55
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    Do you have any plans on handling launch control, antilag, nitrous retard and fuel adder and traction control with the stock DME?
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    Is it going to see the strip? Click here to enlarge
    I'll probably bracket race it on the wastegate spring...which at this point is 6psi. No serious racing plans....

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    Do you have any plans on handling launch control, antilag, nitrous retard and fuel adder and traction control with the stock DME?
    Neel,

    It's just a 330i grocery getter / toy car for me, not a race car.

    The 330Ci is the race car....

  7. #57
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    It's just a 330i grocery getter / toy car for me, not a race car.

    The 330Ci is the race car....
    This is what you're going shopping in? I like your style!
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

  8. #58
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    "just" haha

    adam, would you mind sharing your education and/or current career? just curious

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    Adam - do you have an M54 harness you can look at for me? I am interested to see how BMW handles the coil signal wires on the later cars. There will likely be a 6 conductor cable with shield coming from the DME. I am trying to see where they are shielding that. My 1995 harness looks like its shielded at the ECU, while my 1992 harness looks like its shielded at the heat area. Trying to see what they did later to come to a conclusion on how to approach this.

    Thanks,
    Jon


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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Hey Adam sweet build! I noticed you are looking at 400 rwtq, well i have some great news for you! That goal that you have with your set up will be no problem. Being that we have a very similar set up, you will be happy to hear i made damn near 480 rwtq with the pectel unit and Neel's superior tuning! And he was saying that the engine is really not even close to its limit! The only factor that is holding me back is the turbo we hit 26 psi and it is maxed out. So i did some research as i was supposed to have a Garrett gt35r turbo, turns out they put in a precision turbo made using Garrett parts but with a precision adaptor not only do they run really hot but it is not as efficient as the Garrett either hence falling short of the 600 hp they are capable of. Click here to enlarge

  11. #61
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    The only factor that is holding me back is the turbo we hit 26 psi and it is maxed out. So i did some research as i was supposed to have a Garrett gt35r turbo, turns out they put in a precision turbo made using Garrett parts but with a precision adaptor not only do they run really hot but it is not as efficient as the Garrett either hence falling short of the 600 hp they are capable of.
    Yeah that car has been really fun to do; it was a bummer when I raised the boost target and the turbo just said "naaawwwww...."

    -Neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    This is what you're going shopping in? I like your style!
    It's what I plan to go grocery shopping in. My wife doesn't like driving it(too fast)....or the Tahoe,(too big) so she's got her own grocery getter.(just right) There might be a little battle for garage space though....who is parked closer to the kitchen....on second thought, I better not mess with that.

    Should be fun when it's finished. I'm going to have to come up with a containment system for the groceries....

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    "just" haha

    adam, would you mind sharing your education and/or current career? just curious
    School of hard knocks / I manage "projects". Clear as mud huh?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Adam - do you have an M54 harness you can look at for me? I am interested to see how BMW handles the coil signal wires on the later cars. There will likely be a 6 conductor cable with shield coming from the DME. I am trying to see where they are shielding that. My 1995 harness looks like its shielded at the ECU, while my 1992 harness looks like its shielded at the heat area. Trying to see what they did later to come to a conclusion on how to approach this.

    Thanks,
    Jon
    Jon, it will be a bit before dig into this, but the only shielded wiring I remember on the M54 was for the knock sensors.

    I've also seen wiring harnesses that are shielded with connection on both ends. The application required installation and testing to find which side needed to be connected.

    Neel, that sound right?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jacobs323i Click here to enlarge
    Hey Adam sweet build! I noticed you are looking at 400 rwtq, well i have some great news for you! That goal that you have with your set up will be no problem. Being that we have a very similar set up, you will be happy to hear i made damn near 480 rwtq with the pectel unit and Neel's superior tuning! And he was saying that the engine is really not even close to its limit! The only factor that is holding me back is the turbo we hit 26 psi and it is maxed out. So i did some research as i was supposed to have a Garrett gt35r turbo, turns out they put in a precision turbo made using Garrett parts but with a precision adaptor not only do they run really hot but it is not as efficient as the Garrett either hence falling short of the 600 hp they are capable of. Click here to enlarge
    Great news!

    Stock intake manifold huh? Click here to enlarge

    I've looked at the compressor map, and we're fine for my power goals. Keep in mind I've got an automatic behind the engine, so I'll need to produce a bit more power at the crank to hit my goals at the rear wheels. Still, I think we are good.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    Yeah that car has been really fun to do; it was a bummer when I raised the boost target and the turbo just said "naaawwwww...."

    -Neel
    Bummer that you ran out of compressor, but I bet that torque curve was fat!!!!

    I'm looking at installing the speed sensor kit from Garret to watch this on my car. I kind of already know where theh limits will be from a pressure ratio perspective, but it would be good to follow turbine speed....

  13. #63
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    I've also seen wiring harnesses that are shielded with connection on both ends. The application required installation and testing to find which side needed to be connected.

    Neel, that sound right?
    The shield should be only terminated at 1 end, not both.

    Bummer that you ran out of compressor, but I bet that torque curve was fat!!!!
    The torque on that this is great for sure.

    -neel
    Neel Vasavada
    Apex Speed Technology
    2947 S Sepulveda Blvd
    Los Angeles, CA 90064
    310.314.2005 (p)
    310.496.0951 (f)
    www.apexspeedtech.com
    info@apexspeedtech.com

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Apex Speed Technology Click here to enlarge
    The shield should be only terminated at 1 end, not both.
    I didn't write that correctly. I meant that there was a connection to the shielding on both ends, but that only one side was connected.
    Last edited by PEI330Ci; 06-21-2011 at 01:09 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    School of hard knocks / I manage "projects". Clear as mud huh?

    i bet you could be a good engineer if you wanted

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    i bet you could be a good engineer if you wanted
    That's what I'll do when I "retire".

    Currently I'm at the top of the food chain: Engineers, Doctors, Mercs, Mechs, etc....they all report to me.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    Currently I'm at the top of the food chain: Engineers, Doctors, Mercs, Mechs, etc....they all report to me.
    So... you are a king of some sort?

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So... you are a king of some sort?
    Nope...just another cog in a big machine....there's always someone else to report to.
    Last edited by PEI330Ci; 06-23-2011 at 03:05 AM.

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    Not to thread jack Adam, but you might have some insight for me also. Neel the new pump was installed and it is still breaking up once the pump gets to around 50 psi, now they have these pumps going to 70-80 psi before breaking up on many cars, so we know it is not that. Do you guys think the oem stuff inside the saddle tank are prohibiting the pump geing able to keep pressure. I think the saddle tank design is the reason we are getting this pump to break up at 50 psi. What can be done to fix this and external surge tank of some sort? And Adam that torque on my car is a monster i think it eneded being over 460 rwtq Thanks in advance for your help!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jacobs323i Click here to enlarge
    Not to thread jack Adam, but you might have some insight for me also. Neel the new pump was installed and it is still breaking up once the pump gets to around 50 psi, now they have these pumps going to 70-80 psi before breaking up on many cars, so we know it is not that. Do you guys think the oem stuff inside the saddle tank are prohibiting the pump geing able to keep pressure. I think the saddle tank design is the reason we are getting this pump to break up at 50 psi. What can be done to fix this and external surge tank of some sort? And Adam that torque on my car is a monster i think it eneded being over 460 rwtq Thanks in advance for your help!
    No problem, this is completely relavent to what I'm doing, and anyone else making big power with an E46.

    A couple of questions:

    What is your base fuel pressure at idle?

    Do you have a boost reference line connected to your FPR?

    What fuel pump are you using in the tank?

    I'm assuming you are using an inline pump as well? What pump is that?

    What size fuel feed line from the tank to the engine compartment are you using?

    Are you using the OEM fuel injector rail? Is it fed from one end, or is it modified?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    No problem, this is completely relavent to what I'm doing, and anyone else making big power with an E46.

    A couple of questions:

    What is your base fuel pressure at idle?

    Do you have a boost reference line connected to your FPR?

    What fuel pump are you using in the tank?

    I'm assuming you are using an inline pump as well? What pump is that?

    What size fuel feed line from the tank to the engine compartment are you using?

    Are you using the OEM fuel injector rail? Is it fed from one end, or is it modified?
    Thanks Adam!
    base fuel pressure at idle is 24-25 i believe
    yes i am pretty sure there is a boost ref line to the fpr
    the fuel pump in the tank is a deatsch werks 300 lph e85 pump
    the inline pump is something i thought about but decided against it
    all the fuel lines are -6 from tank to fuel rail
    no the fuel rail is a custom one by fuel injector clinic it is fed from one side with a return on the other back to the tank

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jacobs323i Click here to enlarge
    Thanks Adam!
    base fuel pressure at idle is 24-25 i believe
    yes i am pretty sure there is a boost ref line to the fpr
    the fuel pump in the tank is a deatsch werks 300 lph e85 pump
    the inline pump is something i thought about but decided against it
    all the fuel lines are -6 from tank to fuel rail
    no the fuel rail is a custom one by fuel injector clinic it is fed from one side with a return on the other back to the tank
    One really important question: What fuel are you using? Pump fuel or E85.

    You need to flow test your fuel system installed on your car. Whatever you think that the fuel pump flows...that isn't important as you have all these other factors that will affect the final flow potential. You need to do a flow test.

    Your fuel pump in theory will flow 1.32 GPM...or approximately 850hp @ 0.50 BSFC. But if you are using E85, that value becomes 600hp. Then the question of what voltage was used for the fuel pump's flow test comes into play, the size of the feed lines, the length of the feed lines, the fuel filter attached to the intake, the fuel filter on the discharge size, the fittings attached in the system, the curves in the feed lines, and other factors will all reduce that total fuel potential. Also, FI normally uses a richer AFR, or a BSFC of about 0.60, which will eat into that as well.

    The best way to test your system is to disconnect the fuel rail, and connect a ball valve to vary fuel flow with the regulator set at your target PSI. You are looking for the balancing point, where the fuel pressure starts to drop when the valve is X% open. Then add a second ball valve after the valve you've set at X%, and this will be opened 100% for 60 seconds while you poor the fuel into a measuring device. From this you will have GPM...or by extrapolation GPH.

    Engines usually need about 15% more fuel by volume at peak power than at peak torque. (This a ballpark figure) So while you might be able to meet the fuel demands of the engine at peak torque, you may find the engine runs out of a fuel up top due to that extra 15% in demand.

    I'm very surprised by your low base fuel pressure. Usually you try to run as high a base fuel pressure as possible (keeping in mind the final FP with boost reference attached) that the fuel injectors can work under. As a general rule, the higher the fuel pressure, the better the fuel is atomized creating more consistent fuel burn and the oportunity for more power. The limit is usually how much pressure the injector can stand before it's latency is affected. (Low duty cycles are the most affected, creating idle problems) Is there a reason why you didn't start at 45 PSI base fuel pressure?

    One thing I'm very wary of is the plastic outlet nipple on the fuel tank. That's what you connect the fuel pump to inside the tank, and it's what you connect your -6 An line to feed the engine. It's definitely a restriction....the question is, how much?

  23. #73
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    To be honest, I haven't seen fuel handled properly in any E46 that hasn't had a fuel cell installed. I don't believe that multiple inline fuel pumps, check valves, and distrubution blocks are an efficient solution. I also don't think that anyone has addressed the in-tank fuel starvation issue that the "saddle tanks" create.

    Bottom line: There are band aids that work around the problems, but nobody has addressed the actual problem. (Which is a fuel system that is not designed for high flow demands and high cornering loads.)

    The surge tank system that I will be doing is a partial solution, but it is just like the other solutions: a high priced band aid. The only 100% solution is to run a fuel cell like I did with the 330Ci, with an internal surge tank, and the rest of the tank filled with foam to prevent the fuel from sloshing around.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    To be honest, I haven't seen fuel handled properly in any E46 that hasn't had a fuel cell installed. I don't believe that multiple inline fuel pumps, check valves, and distrubution blocks are an efficient solution. I also don't think that anyone has addressed the in-tank fuel starvation issue that the "saddle tanks" create.

    Bottom line: There are band aids that work around the problems, but nobody has addressed the actual problem. (Which is a fuel system that is not designed for high flow demands and high cornering loads.)

    The surge tank system that I will be doing is a partial solution, but it is just like the other solutions: a high priced band aid. The only 100% solution is to run a fuel cell like I did with the 330Ci, with an internal surge tank, and the rest of the tank filled with foam to prevent the fuel from sloshing around.
    Does this mean you will be running a fuel cell?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Does this mean you will be running a fuel cell?
    Just answered my question it seems:

    The car will be using an OEM fuel tank with an OEM fuel pump. The fuel pump outlet will be plumbed with a -6 AN line to a custom surge tank mounted under the trunk.
    So a fuel cell will be used for nitrous I gather? But with the OEM fuel tank how does that solve the problems you mentioned?

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