Close

Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,186
    Rep Points
    2,134.5
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    22


    Yes Reputation No

    Article: Auto better the DCT...up to 12 gears? Manuals here to stay?

    http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...207-1aj01.html

    Some manufacturers have predicted the demise of manual gearboxes, but BMW isnít one of them.

    Reports about the death of the manual gearbox have been greatly exaggerated, according to the man responsible for development of transmissions at BMW.

    Jan Kretschmer says the manual shifter will continue to be offered in high-end performance cars and entry-level models, where the lower cost of the technology allows manufacturers to offer a more attractive price to first-time buyers.

    "Manuals will survive at the top end where the buyer wants the involvement of shifting gears, and in developing markets, where it is a cheaper option than an auto," he says.

    Advertisement: Story continues below
    Many car company executives are predicting that the advent of the new twin-clutch, self-shifting transmission will spell the end of traditional manuals because they can shift gears just as quickly and are more fuel efficient. The Volkswagen group, which includes VW, Audi and Porsche, is adopting the technology across its range, while others, including Ford, are following suit.

    But Kretschmer has cast doubt on the long-term future of the twin-clutch transmission, saying that the latest torque converter automatic transmissions are just as quick, if not quicker, than double-clutch units and are much smoother in stop-start traffic.

    Twin-clutch transmissions offer excellent performance on the open road, but can hesitate off the mark and feel jerky around town.

    Kretschmer hinted that BMW may drop its twin-clutch transmission from its M-branded high-performance cars, including the M3.

    He says the company's new eight-speed automatic shifts more quickly than the seven-speed twin-clutch unit in the M3.

    "At the moment, the only advantage of the twin-clutch is that it allows you to rev past 7000rpm," he says.

    He believes there is also more scope for fuel consumption improvement in the traditional auto, because it can add more gears in the future without adding extra components and therefore increasing in size and weight.

    BMW estimates that its move from a six-speed transmission to an eight-speed has yielded an 8 per cent improvement in fuel economy.

    He claims that the set up of a twin-clutch transmission means it will have to add more components to offer any more gears, while traditional automatics could conceivably end up with as many as 12 gears.

    "In the future, it may be hard for double-clutch transmissions, because they will always be limited to seven gears," he says.

    Leading transmission supplier ZF has hinted that nine-, 10-, 11- and 12-speed transmissions are a possibility in the future, but Kretschmer says BMW is not rushing to be the first to have a nine-speed auto.

    He says the eight-speed box is the optimum layout for efficiency and weight, and that a ninth, tenth or eleventh gear may not necessarily provide the gains to justify additional investment because they require extra moving parts. By the twelfth gear, though, the investment could provide attractive dividends, Kretschmer says.

    The German also dismissed the effectiveness of continuously variable transmissions, which have been traditionally favoured by Japanese manufacturers including Mitsubishi, Subaru, Nissan and Toyota in its hybrid vehicles.

    "They are best suited to small-displacement in heavy stop-start traffic," he says.
    Current:
    14 Viper TA
    Wsir - 1:28:9
    Buttonwillow C13 - 1:54:1

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,618
    Rep Points
    -98.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Hmmm ,,, I Didn't know that 8-Speed can shift that fast , i'm impressed !
    and i do agree more than 8 gears is so unnecessary , it's car not truck !
    i wish we could find more people like Mr.Kretschmer in BMW , sticked to the old rules !

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,600
    Rep Points
    3,236.6
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    33


    Yes Reputation No
    $#@! yea I want an 8 speed. Can you imagine I downshift like 5 times pulling into the grocery store, THAT $#@! SOUNDS BADASS YO..
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,259
    Rep Points
    32,701.5
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
    He says the company's new eight-speed automatic shifts more quickly than the seven-speed twin-clutch unit in the M3.

    "At the moment, the only advantage of the twin-clutch is that it allows you to rev past 7000rpm," he says.
    This is ridiculous, it is a physical impossibility.

    DCT already has the next gear pre-selected. You can't go faster than it and there is no evidence to support this nonsense.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,618
    Rep Points
    -98.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This is ridiculous, it is a physical impossibility.

    DCT already has the next gear pre-selected. You can't go faster than it and there is no evidence to support this nonsense.
    i don't know man , but i'm certain a guy responsible for development of transmissions of a company doesn't say BS

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,259
    Rep Points
    32,701.5
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    i don't know man , but i'm certain a guy responsible for development of transmissions of a company doesn't say BS
    There is no support for it whatsoever, just a bunch of talk. They could have put an auto in the M5, went with a DCT, why?

    Auto better than DCT? Please, that is just stupid. Look at how DCT cars annihilate autos on shift times.

    Put an auto in the M3 vs. the DCT and it will have its ass handed to it.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,618
    Rep Points
    -98.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    There is no support for it whatsoever, just a bunch of talk. They could have put an auto in the M5, went with a DCT, why?

    Auto better than DCT? Please, that is just stupid. Look at how DCT cars annihilate autos on shift times.

    Put an auto in the M3 vs. the DCT and it will have its ass handed to it.
    You do sound right about DCT , but i'm confused man . because Lamborghini said ISR with single clutch shifts faster than DCT ! it shows DCT isn't the fastest , and we knew it actually since F1 cars shifts much faster with single clutch !

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,259
    Rep Points
    32,701.5
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    You do sound right about DCT , but i'm confused man . because Lamborghini said ISR with single clutch shifts faster than DCT ! it shows DCT isn't the fastest , and we knew it actually since F1 cars shifts much faster with single clutch !
    The ISR has dual shift rods so it is working on the same principle. We are getting to the point where it just becomes a physical limitation to move something any faster. The DCT shifts in like 4 ms, how are you going to improve that significantly?

    An auto can't match that so if this guy stated the Auto shifts faster he is wrong. There is no quote where he says that in the article as DCT shift times are well documented and are much faster than any comparable autos.

    I don't think an F1 car shifts faster with a single clutch. Just look at how much faster an Italia is with DCT vs. their single clutch setups they had previously.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,259
    Rep Points
    32,701.5
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    The independent shift rods work similar in concept to a dual-clutch - as one rod is disengaging the current gear, the second rod is already engaging the next one.
    ISR basically is doing the same thing, pre-selecting the next gear. A single clutch can only be in 1 gear at a time so kind of impossible to beat a DCT. Same thing for an auto...
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,618
    Rep Points
    -98.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    oh thanks for the ISR info , i was really looking for it !

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    120,259
    Rep Points
    32,701.5
    Mentioned
    2130 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    328


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    oh thanks for the ISR info , i was really looking for it !
    This thread: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...sembly-Video-*
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,186
    Rep Points
    2,134.5
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    22



    Yes Reputation No
    Anyone can write an article...I wasnt taking it that serious..but thought it was an entertaining read.
    Current:
    14 Viper TA
    Wsir - 1:28:9
    Buttonwillow C13 - 1:54:1

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,618
    Rep Points
    -98.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    ^ surely it's good , thanks for posting it.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •