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  1. #1
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    OE Tuning response to allegations of dyno manipulation by Powerchip - PC vs. OE E92 M3 S65 tune

    For whatever reason, Powerchip continues to attack their former employee Jeremy of OE Tuning. Everyone is sick of it at this point but recently Mike Benvo went to OE Tuning and attempted to use their own dyno to discredit OE Tuning. The reason for this is graphs that showed large gains made by OE Tuning over a Powerchip tune.

    The owner of the M3 in question decided to make the switch to OE Tuning. He attended a recent dyno day where he saw the results of other cars and decided to try the OE Tuning tune. He was given a money back guarantee and after trying it decided to keep it. The results were posted and Powerchip as well as the usual suspects set against OE Tuning decided to attempt to discredit the results.

    BimmerBoost in an effort to clear up this nonsense, which is what it is, contacted Jeremy from OE Tuning who provides his perspective below. Now, some things to note. OE Tuning moved their dyno to a new location. At this new location the dyno was loaded with different software and calibrated differently. Their experience is that the dyno now reads a little lower than it did previously. When Mike Benvo from Powerchip "infiltrated" OE Tuning in his effort to discredit them, Jeremy called up the owner of Dyno Dynamics to discuss Benvo's allegations which were dismissed with Benvo present.

    This is all a waste of time as OE Tuning tells any customer to go use any dyno they want to verify numbers if they like. It is not in their interest to essentially lie to themselves. Any individual is free to take their tune and go verify it on any dyno they like, there is nothing to hide. Graphs below with added insight from Jeremy should easily clear this up.


    HP vs. AFR. base lines were run with a 20 minute cool down before running 4,5,6. This is to give the best possible baseline (which we used). I am a believer of “best vs. best”.

    Click here to enlarge

    HP vs. Tq

    Click here to enlarge

    best PC baseline vs. Gintani/OE Tuned runs. Tuned runs warm and cooled down. (a 15 minute cool down in between runs) Note also AFR has changed.

    Click here to enlarge

    Dynos reads “tractive effort” and calculates other variables form these figures. Directly related to Torque output.

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    Road speed is spot on displaying same “ramp up rate”

    Click here to enlarge

    Measured acceleration

    Click here to enlarge

    Ambient Pressure

    Click here to enlarge

    Ambient Temperature

    Click here to enlarge

    Relative Humidity

    Click here to enlarge

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Did mike do this without jeremy's knowledge? Shame on him.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    Did mike do this without jeremy's knowledge? Shame on him.
    Mike showed up at OE Tuning with some "dyno expert" trying to discredit Jeremy. He actually tried entering the premises and dyno room without permission. What the hell is that?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Mike showed up at OE Tuning with some "dyno expert" trying to discredit Jeremy. He actually tried entering the premises and dyno room without permission. What the hell is that?
    That's a shame. It's fun y how many people don't know that your are not allowed in the shop without permission from the owner. If this is the same mike, which I think it is, I met him a while ago and he seemed like a pretty cool guy. Too bad he tried to pull that crap.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    That's a shame. It's fun y how many people don't know that your are not allowed in the shop without permission from the owner. If this is the same mike, which I think it is, I met him a while ago and he seemed like a pretty cool guy. Too bad he tried to pull that crap.
    I've spoken to Mike and he has always treated me well but this nonsense needs to stop, it's absurd. Powerchip needs to get over it and move on. They are like the ex-girlfriend from hell. I wouldn't be surprised if Wayne called up Jeremy to tell him he was pregnant and he thinks Jeremy is the father.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Powerchip needs to get over it and move on. They are like the ex-girlfriend from hell. I wouldn't be surprised if Wayne called up Jeremy to tell him he was pregnant and he thinks Jeremy is the father.
    Hahaha! That made me laugh! Honestly, I can't take when companies try to get business by trashing other companies and trying to discredit them. Why not just let the product do the talking? Seriously. If the product is good, you have nothing to worry about.

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    why is this front page news?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    why is this front page news?
    Because in the S65 scene this has been a big deal which was blown up out of proportion so best to nip it in the bud and show the results where it will be most viewed.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Because in the S65 scene this has been a big deal which was blown up out of proportion so best to nip it in the bud and show the results where it will be most viewed.
    Good idea. This kind of $#@! makes me want to just have a garage and work on my own cars only. Just for fun..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    Good idea. This kind of $#@! makes me want to just have a garage and work on my own cars only. Just for fun..
    I hate this crap but it's times like this that I'm glad BimmerBoost exists so voices can't be silenced. Posts and users disappearing left and right in the other place...

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I hate this crap but it's times like this that I'm glad BimmerBoost exists so voices can't be silenced. Posts and users disappearing left and right in the other place...
    That's what I have said before. This is the only forum I visit everyday. It's just an overall great forum. The way every where else should aspire to be. If you can get around all the OT. lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    That's what I have said before. This is the only forum I visit everyday. It's just an overall great forum. The way every where else should aspire to be. If you can get around all the OT. lol
    This forum is meant to be read in its entirety.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    well, i wonder how the PG/PC duo feel now? probably need to go take a pill..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    well, i wonder how the PG/PC duo feel now? probably need to go take a pill..
    I hope this nonsense ends. I would not be so restrained if it was me.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    PC's response:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@Powerchip Click here to enlarge
    Yesterday I received a call from Alex at Gintani and he was clearly upset about this thread (which I wasn't even aware of yet). Alex offered that if I brought my car there, he would put it on the dyno and let me operate it to see if I could skew the numbers upward or downward. Alex told me that his dyno couldn’t be manipulated, but I would be welcome to “run his dyno” and show him how to do it. I accepted the challenge and made contact with a professional very well versed in Dyno Dynamics dynamometers, because I was unfamiliar with that software.

    Along the way to Gintani, I picked up a friend of mine to be a witness to all of the events. When we arrived there was naturally some animosity already built up.” After Jeremy was finished yelling insults at me, Alex came out and went to the dyno computer. He was playing around with it and then challenged me to show him how the dyno could be manipulated. Before arriving at Gintani, I had been coached by the Dyno Dynamics expert, but I couldn't remember exactly what he told me. I called him back and received instructions on what to press to access the Dyno weather station and calibration screens, along with instructions on which values to alter to manipulate the dyno results exactly as we've seen posted in this thread.

    I pressed "A" and entered the weather station and calibration screen. The instructions given to me said to turn the weather station off, and then press apply. After doing that, I changed the barometric pressure to 28 from 29.39 and hit apply. The correction factor immediately changed, causing the factor to skew upwards of 1. I changed the value again, and once again the correction factor went up. I told them that that was exactly what I was talking about. The second the correction factor went up, fireworks started between Alex, Jeremy, and myself. I clearly entered a screen they didn't want me to change. Alex turned the weather station back on, but the correction factor wasn’t going back. Alex then blamed me for breaking his dyno computer. I told him I still had the expert on the phone, and asked the expert what to do to put it back. The expert told me to press “Apply”, and the second I hit that the barometric pressure went to 29.39 again and the correction factor went to .987. Alex told me that this isn't fair and that he had no idea the dyno could be manipulated in this way.

    Next we began talking about retesting the OP's car to verify the Gintani/OE Tuning results. Alex was adamant to prevent this in fear that PowerChip would somehow try to steal Jeremy's ECU files. I informed Alex that for every simple problem there is usually a simple solution. I offered to let Jeremy be the only person to flash and return the car to stock, if that's what it would take to unblock this verification test and ensure the results were authentic. Again, Alex was adamant to disallow such a test. It made me wonder what control or what right Alex had in preventing the OP from using his own car to retest the results on an independent dyno. Clearly it's very odd that Alex would try to order or prevent the OP from using his car however he sees fit.

    Finally, I asked Alex to show me the OP's original dyno graphs and raw data. This is when another very sharp argument broke out between us. Alex refused to show me the OP's graphs or to reprint them in "Shootout" mode so they could be independently analyzed and verified. The argument grew so tense, that it became clear that I should leave.

    After first challenging me to come to his dyno with my car and prove how manipulation could be done, Alex abruptly withdrew the invitation before the test even began. He refused to allow the test after he saw that I knew exactly how his dyno could be manipulated to achieve the perfect 10% gain found on the OP's results. He called me a liar and told me that on the phone that we had a mutual agreement only to change the “tacho” setting on the dyno. So after first challenging me to prove how his dynos could be manipulated, he backed out of the challenge, refused to allow it after he knew exactly what I was planning to do and knowing that it would exactly duplicate the artificial gain I saw on the OP’s dyno results. I asked Alex again to view the OP's results, and he said he didn’t know how to show the run conditions on the OP’s dyno runs. I told him that I had the expert on the phone that could tell us how to do it, and the argument escalated to the point that I given a clear indication to leave now.

    I have no hard feelings toward Jeremy or Alex – Gintani or OE Tuning. My goal here is to keep this situation 100% professional and not in any way personal. The whole point of this is to verify the OP’s results – after all, he is certainly due a refund if they are accurate. I still cannot understand why Alex and Jeremy would not show me the dyno graphs on the computer. Also, the graphs that they retroactively posted do not even show the correction factor. The factors you see listed are live, not the conditions from when the runs were actually made. Also, you can export from dyno dynamics to a picture directly – for accuracy’s sake, I would prefer that over something that was copied and pasted into Paint (you can see lots of photo editing software on the taskbar of the dyno screenshots). It's worth mentioning, that 28 out of 28 dyno charts posted at OE Tuning blog, all of them were exported JPG files. For the purposes of this test only, the graphs presented here used screen captures and photo editing software to present the graphs.

    I would like to renew my offer to the OP to allow his car to be independently tested on an independent dyno. In addition to all of the conditions in our previous offer, we would like to add the following to "sweeten the pot" and to ensure that Gintani's concerns of "file stealing" doesn't occur. If the OP does not own an OE Tuning EZ Flash, then we will buy one and he can keep it when the test is finished. He can load it with his current tune, and we will provide the stock factory tune to be used as part of the test. The car owner can operate EZ Flash on his own car to flash the OE Tune and his OEM tune, and we will never need to interact with his OE Tune ECU files. In the end he can keep the EZ Flash at our expense.

    We encourage the OP to accept our offer for independent testing and do not understand how Gintani and/or OE Tuning could legitimately exert any pressure or influence on him to deny such a request. We believe the OP has the right to do anything he wants with his car, and if his tests were legitimate and independent in the first place (not sponsored or coerced), then no outside influence at Gintani or OE Tuning should get in the way.

    Mike Benvo

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    Powerchip's original response was deleted. It was full of insults.

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    Honestly, someone go get an OE Tune. Get before and after dynos at another shop. So everyone can shut the $#@! up.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Mike showed up at OE Tuning with some "dyno expert" trying to discredit Jeremy. He actually tried entering the premises and dyno room without permission. What the hell is that?
    That is ABSOLUTELY NOT what happened Joseph. Stop posting stuff like that unless you quote the source of where you got it from. And considering what you just said, the source is LYING.

    I never went anywhere without permission. I was INVITED to come there with my car and skew the graph because according to them, ITS NOT POSSIBLE. Guess what? IT IS!

    Still waiting for those correction factors.....
    Last edited by Mike Benvo; 03-27-2011 at 07:09 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    Powerchip's original response was deleted. It was full of insults.
    Yes it was. And that's why it was removed. It was posted in haste, and I can understand to an extent.

    I hope Gintani appreciates my post over what was posted before.. I think it's a large improvement for them..

    The responses need to be professional, and do not need emotional or personal touches. Fair is fair!
    Last edited by Mike Benvo; 03-27-2011 at 07:02 AM.

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    Mike, how does it feel to be the laughin stock of the tuning community. I mean, left and right people are trading out there pc tunes for something else, ones that work. Must get you a bit frustrated huh?
    I mean, I have personally seen your PC tune lose power Click here to enlarge and im not even in your demographic Click here to enlarge

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    If anyone's interested in the full story, there's a discussion on this topic in the e9X section of M3forum that isn't filtered by M3post or sticky. I'd post a link, but sticky made it so I can't Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Obioban Click here to enlarge
    If anyone's interested in the full story, there's a discussion on this topic in the e9X section of M3forum that isn't filtered by M3post or sticky. I'd post a link, but sticky made it so I can't Click here to enlarge
    This is hilarious coming from one of the moderators/sponsors on a forum where respected members are suspended or banned for even discussing HPF. Thanks for attempting to post a link, but I am sure we are all aware of what type of one-sided view will be awaiting us.....just like all the other drival in the FI section on your forum.

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Mike, how does it feel to be the laughin stock of the tuning community. I mean, left and right people are trading out there pc tunes for something else, ones that work. Must get you a bit frustrated huh?
    I mean, I have personally seen your PC tune lose power Click here to enlarge and im not even in your demographic Click here to enlarge
    I think you've had too many IED's blown up next to your face.

    Aparently the reading on the other thread is beyond your comprehension.

    I'll leave it at that.

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    0 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Here's the link. Everyone would benefit from reading it Click here to enlarge

    http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...post1064737325

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@Powerchip Click here to enlarge
    I think you've had too many IED's blown up next to your face.

    Aparently the reading on the other thread is beyond your comprehension.

    I'll leave it at that.
    dude, you post your experience with barging in on a competitors place and demanding to do this and that and think its going to go well? your side of that whole story, is, well, how can you get more biased? you even admit your first post was deleted since you cant control your temper. Do you expect me to believe you guys were smiling and joking when you first got there and then it went sour? thats not how situations play out.
    i can read just fine btw.
    i just dont see how you claim you have no hard feelings when they gained your share of the market and continue to do so? I know of you and your conversations off line, and know your nowhere near as proffessional as you should be, so you want people to believe your on the up-and-up when dealing with your rival tuner?
    so, ill ask again, more directly. How do you feel knowing that within 5 yrs, you wont be in this market anymore?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kmfurdm Click here to enlarge
    Here's the link. Everyone would benefit from reading it Click here to enlarge

    http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...post1064737325
    yup, lots of info from the same 3 people over here saying the same thing right here, oh wait PG wont come here since he knows he cant post nonsense here with dumb readers to +1 him all day, and his called on his BS everytime..Dude needs to up is valuim dose or somehting..
    Last edited by LostMarine; 03-27-2011 at 05:19 PM.

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