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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    SteedSpeed agreed to an independent test and said whatever the result let the truth be known. Well then, let's see if HPF feels the same way.
    I honestly doubt the new HPF manifold will flow better than the Steed Speed. However, the difference would be minimal I'm betting. Like spdu4ea has already said, an additional .5-1 psi of boost would easily make up any difference even in the worst case. The new manifold has its advantages being a one piece unit. There also appears to be some slight installation advantages as well. There is nothing wrong with it being sand cast either. To me it seems a few people are just trying to make this non-event into something more than it is and yes I have to agree with Batta, it seems as if there are a group of people who have to constantly complain about everything HPF does. They can't even hire a model for marketing purposes without being criticized.

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    I honestly doubt the new HPF manifold will flow better than the Steed Speed. However, the difference would be minimal I'm betting. Like spdu4ea has already said, an additional .5-1 psi of boost would easily make up any difference even in the worst case. The new manifold has its advantages being a one piece unit. There also appears to be some slight installation advantages as well. There is nothing wrong with it being sand cast either. .
    spdu4ea maybe right, but time will tell and it will be interesting to see the results from a third party.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    spdu4ea maybe right, but time will tell and it will be interesting to see the results from a third party.
    There are also always two sides to every story and I have a feeling we don't know all the facts. I believe Steed Speed (Leen?) already mentioned in this thread that Chris had never said anything to him about leaks.. but yet I just read this post over at bimmerforums.com

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...1&postcount=28

    In another post Steed Speed (Leen) made a comment about HPF having not paid an invoice. It's one thing to argue over who's product is better, but airing financial dealings publicly is another thing entirely.

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    There are also always two sides to every story and I have a feeling we don't know all the facts. I believe Steed Speed (Leen?) already mentioned in this thread that Chris had never said anything to him about leaks.. but yet I just read this post over at bimmerforums.com

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...1&postcount=28

    In another post Steed Speed (Leen) made a comment about HPF having not paid an invoice. It's one thing to argue over who's product is better, but airing financial dealings publicly is another thing entirely.
    HPF is getting a taste of what they do. Evan comes to mind.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  5. #55
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    Interesting read...I haven't been on these forums much but there is definitely lots of hate around here...this thread is good though. I personally have the SS manifold and will keep it until I hear further results...if it works why break it?

    What I think about SS:
    - Looks awesome
    - Heavier, tougher to install
    - Proven to work (Questionable sealing when mis-installation occurs)

    What I think about the HPF Mani:
    - Doesn't look appealing
    - Lighter, easier to install than SS
    - New unproven product...claims to have better heat resistance
    - Possibly better/easier sealing characteristics during installation
    - Cheaper to manufacture which could lead to reduced cost of kit over time

    What I think about both of them:
    - Beneficial to the F.I. community as it gives people more options/choice about what they want
    - New products are good, create competition and lowers prices

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    HPF is getting a taste of what they do. Evan comes to mind.
    You didn't comment on the link.

    Getting a taste of what exactly? The VF forum drama over their blown engine went on for months and really hurt their reputation. It seems the drama with Evan lasted all of about two weeks.. just as I predicted it would. Seems to me Chris did a good job of squashing that before it ballooned into a PR nightmare.

    What happens if Chris posts up pictures of Steed Speed manifolds with carbon sooted poorly sealed sections (he said he had some). Combine that with the comment from someone who stated over a year ago that there were known problems with the Steed Speed leaking at the "fire seals" and it seems Chris once again comes out on top wouldn't you say?

    I agree his tact sometimes could be better, but it does appear a proper explanation always emerges in the end. Somehow though there are folks that just always hate.
    Last edited by ccsykes; 03-26-2011 at 12:15 PM.

  7. #57
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    Hate solves nothing...just keeps the truth from coming out and facts hidden.

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin Click here to enlarge
    Hate solves nothing...just keeps the truth from coming out and facts hidden.
    this

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    You didn't comment on the link.

    Getting a taste of what exactly? The VF forum drama over their blown engine went on for months and really hurt their reputation. It seems the drama with Evan lasted all of about two weeks.. just as I predicted it would. Seems to me Chris did a good job of squashing that before it ballooned into a PR nightmare.

    What happens if Chris posts up pictures of Steed Speed manifolds with carbon sooted poorly sealed sections (he said he had some). Combine that with the comment from someone who stated over a year ago that there were known problems with the Steed Speed leaking at the "fire seals" and it seems Chris once again comes out on top wouldn't you say?

    I agree his tact sometimes could be better, but it does appear a proper explanation always emerges in the end. Somehow though there are folks that just always hate.
    I'm not sure about the Vf stuff I never really liked their products. Chris has come across many times as a prick. Many times on various forums when simple questions asked they are viewed as attacks. Chris once accused me of working for AA ROFL.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    You didn't comment on the link.

    Getting a taste of what exactly? The VF forum drama over their blown engine went on for months and really hurt their reputation. It seems the drama with Evan lasted all of about two weeks.. just as I predicted it would. Seems to me Chris did a good job of squashing that before it ballooned into a PR nightmare.

    What happens if Chris posts up pictures of Steed Speed manifolds with carbon sooted poorly sealed sections (he said he had some). Combine that with the comment from someone who stated over a year ago that there were known problems with the Steed Speed leaking at the "fire seals" and it seems Chris once again comes out on top wouldn't you say?

    I agree his tact sometimes could be better, but it does appear a proper explanation always emerges in the end. Somehow though there are folks that just always hate.
    Pictures of a sooty manifold are easily produced with a quick blast around the block with no seals installed.

    I repeat, HPF has never in 4 years mentioned any problems with sealing.

    I repeat, HPF has never used the seals which I supply with my manifolds. If there was a problem don't you think they would have at least given them a go?

  11. #61
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    I have heard of exhaust leaks with the SS manifold and it was pretty much unanimous that the only issue is with installation...the copper seals work...I'm sure the SS ones work as well. The better of the two seals? I do not know.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    In another post Steed Speed (Leen) made a comment about HPF having not paid an invoice. It's one thing to argue over who's product is better, but airing financial dealings publicly is another thing entirely.
    But it's ok to trash my products in a video based on a fabricated lie regarding a supposed problem which has never been mentioned to me in 4 years of dealing with HPF? I think that if HPF are going to do that then the least they can do is settle their account with me. I have been waiting months and have asked several times for the final balance but it seems to get ignored. After the way they have treated me I don't feel the need to be polite anymore.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    I honestly doubt the new HPF manifold will flow better than the Steed Speed. However, the difference would be minimal I'm betting. Like spdu4ea has already said, an additional .5-1 psi of boost would easily make up any difference even in the worst case. The new manifold has its advantages being a one piece unit. There also appears to be some slight installation advantages as well. There is nothing wrong with it being sand cast either. To me it seems a few people are just trying to make this non-event into something more than it is and yes I have to agree with Batta, it seems as if there are a group of people who have to constantly complain about everything HPF does. They can't even hire a model for marketing purposes without being criticized.

    Sigh.

    An additional .5 - 1 psi is the difference? How are you quantifying that?

    Do you understand how exhaust manifolds work? They work on flow - if you you swap to this cast unit and it flows 8% less, adding 1 psi won't make up for that - you will suffer 8% worse at all ranges of the motors operation. Further, adding boost won't help - why? Boost in requires flow out! There are single turbo V8's that run 12 - 14 psi on a 90mm turbo to make 1000 hp using cast iron truck manifolds turned front ways with a Y pipe. They swap to tubular steel headers and make 1000 hp on much less boost.

    Think of it like a supercharger since that boost control is based on engine RPM - guys run a vortech s/c at 10 psi with stock headers. They swap to tubular headers and their boost drops to 8 psi. Where'd it go? The supercharger is making the same boost cfm because its belt driven... but boost went down - it went down because the motor is now flowing better. You make more power with better flow than you do higher pressures - "PSI" is measured in front of the intake valve - there's a whole other half of the engine you seem to not take into account. I'd rather flow 450 cfm per cylinder and make 3 psi than flow 180 cfm and make 20 psi. That is going to be the difference with the HPF manifold. You will also watch their horsepower fall off up top - this is the downside of the drastic entry they have off the head port. Please don't contribute unless you understand how PSI and FLOW work.


  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge

    In another post Steed Speed (Leen) made a comment about HPF having not paid an invoice. It's one thing to argue over who's product is better, but airing financial dealings publicly is another thing entirely.
    You're kidding right? Airing financial details is frowned upon? How about HPF Chris posting Evans payment plan, late payments, discounts, warranty, etc.??? HPF Chris did something FAR worse - I don't care so much when a B2B discloses issues they have with payments vs when B2P does the same... hows that for some marketing terms rofl.


  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    I honestly doubt the new HPF manifold will flow better than the Steed Speed. However, the difference would be minimal I'm betting. Like spdu4ea has already said, an additional .5-1 psi of boost would easily make up any difference even in the worst case. The new manifold has its advantages being a one piece unit. There also appears to be some slight installation advantages as well. There is nothing wrong with it being sand cast either. To me it seems a few people are just trying to make this non-event into something more than it is and yes I have to agree with Batta, it seems as if there are a group of people who have to constantly complain about everything HPF does. They can't even hire a model for marketing purposes without being criticized.
    Very true but the model is a whole separate issue. That will invite criticism since auto sites are male dominated and it seems like they are trying to use sex appeal to sell. Some guys just want info without that that nonsense and it cheapens their image. They can market however they want, but I doubt you are all that surprised forums are focusing a bit on that aspect.

    Spdu4ea is likely right. Best way to find out is to do a test and if people are interested we can probably make that happen.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    Variances?

    Chris talks a lot about variances in my manifolds. I only have one fixture and even the clearances on the bolts are very close so the flanges can't move anywhere when bolted in place.

    Take a look and judge for yourselves how much difference you think this fixture will allow on those manifolds.

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

  17. #67
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    Leen I've never seen pictures of the back side or with the two main cnc'd pieces apart..mind throwing a few up? Also a comparison of these copper/stainless seals would be good too; if you have the copper ones that is.

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Steed Speed Click here to enlarge
    Chris talks a lot about variances in my manifolds. I only have one fixture and even the clearances on the bolts are very close so the flanges can't move anywhere when bolted in place.

    Take a look and judge for yourselves how much difference you think this fixture will allow on those manifolds.

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge
    Inserted pictures inline so they resize.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 Click here to enlarge
    Sigh.

    An additional .5 - 1 psi is the difference? How are you quantifying that?
    I ran it through my sphinctorial analysis algorithm.

    We agree that the Steed Speed manifold is going to flow better -- both due to decreased surface roughness and increased port merge turbulence. The question is just how much difference is that going to make. For a 750bhp car, my ass says that restriction will probably cost around 10-20hp (easily negated by running another .5-1psi on an appropriately sized turbo).

    But my ass is far from infallible, so if you have a better estimation I'm all ears.

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    So you think theres a 1.3% reduction in flow?

    ......


  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
    I read this forum allday. Filled with great info but it's also a cesspool of people banned elsewhere. There really no point to share anymore. I'll continue to lurk but all my info will probably stick with me. Unless LM post something on my behalf. I can't take the hpf crusades again.

    Probably sounds weird but I've been getting so many bad info trash talking p
    and such across all forums.
    I would miss your informed posts if you chose only to lurk. You are right, not many have direct first hand experience in some areas, and I for one appreciate open and unbiased discussion on various topics. I hope to see your enthusiasm continue to show in quality posts.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Simple solution, flow bench tests but seems most feel the Steed Speed product is higher quality.
    From what I've learned, flow bench data regarding exhaust flow isn't as useful as some would have us believe. I think a back to back dyno with only the manifold being changed, and no adjustment to the tune would be an appropriate demonstration of the "performance" of each manifold.

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    From what I've learned, flow bench data regarding exhaust flow isn't as useful as some would have us believe. I think a back to back dyno with only the manifold being changed, and no adjustment to the tune would be an appropriate demonstration of the "performance" of each manifold.
    This is true. A flowbench would measure the pressure required to flow a certain amount of air through all of the ports at the same time. An engine exhausts in a pulsed manner. So a flowbench tends to bias towards straight/open exhausts (which may or may not actually flow better on the engine).

    The problem is that even on an engine it would be difficult to be completely scientific. An engine tuned for a free-flowing manifold that now has a more restrictive manifold is going to change volumetric efficiency (which is the basis for map-based standalones' tunes). Thus an ideally tuned steedspeed likely won't be ideally tuned on the cast. You would also need to run wastegate spring pressure only (for the test).

  23. #73
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    I see 3 topics here:

    1.) HPF and SS have some business to finish.
    2.) HPF has made statements about the SS product that has not been proven with facts yet.
    3.) HPF has decided to make their own exhaust manifold for their kits.

    Regardless of the quality, or performance of the new HPF manifold, I think the statements made about the SS product needs to be addressed privately between HPF and SS, and then a joint statement needs to be made to clear up any misunderstanding publicly.

    Even if the new HPF cast manifold is less efficient than the SS piece, that's HPF's business as to how they adapt their kit to compensate for this. The end user won't care how HPF made 600rwhp, they just want to buy the kit and drive it with minimal headaches. This is the HPF niche: Peace of mind. So if the new manifold turns out to be horrible, I'm confident HPF will address that in a professional manor.

    Sticky,

    Great thread.

    Steedspeed is on my list of parts for one of the projects I'm working on; solid product.

  24. #74
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    Seals

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin Click here to enlarge
    Leen I've never seen pictures of the back side or with the two main cnc'd pieces apart..mind throwing a few up? Also a comparison of these copper/stainless seals would be good too; if you have the copper ones that is.
    Here are a couple of my seals. One is placed up and one is facing down so you can see the cone shape. I put them in a die to make them conical so they have some spring to them. This way they will seal perfectly against the cnc machined faces. HPF uses a soft copper gasket which is more easily squashed and worn and degraded with heat.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  25. #75
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    Cool, thx...never knew that. Odd that they didn't use them.

    EDIT: Awesome you guys are Canadian and from Kelowna...love Kelowna. Well thats enough info for me...keeping my mani.
    Last edited by Commanderwiggin; 03-26-2011 at 09:20 PM.

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