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  1. #1
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    Gintani Stage 2 SC's compared - Sticky vs. DLSJ5 - No cats + plus headers vs. cats

    Sticky (me) is Green, DSLJ5 (Drew) is blue:

    STD:

    Click here to enlarge

    SAE:

    Click here to enlarge

    These dynos were done in the same place. Conditions were very similar, favoring Drew slightly:

    Click here to enlarge

    Both cars were on 91 octane + meth. Both cars are running the Gintani Stage 2 supercharger with meth. Both cars ran the same boost, 7.5 psi.

    Now, this is posted to show that there is a significant difference created by the exhaust system and the same dyno certainly can provide much different results. I do not understand why people were critcizing Drew about his numbers or what they were even implying. Yes, Niterider (Brian) put down 505 on a DIFFERENT dyno, not this dyno, on a different day in different conditions.

    Drew's run and my own are much more compareable as they are on the same dyno. People were saying, "why Did Drew only put down xxx blah blah blah" and going on some ridiculous witch hunt. The numbers are what they are, you can see the difference for yourself.

    The headers and 3 inch exhaust themselves made a larger difference than we realized. Boost dropped 2 PSI due to the headers and exhaust, VERY big difference. I was running more boost than Drew when I ran 130 mph in the 1/4. With the headers and 2 psi less, I actually gained a tiny bit of power. That goes to show how good the exhaust and headers are. Hell, you can see it yourself compared with Drew with the torque advantage through the curve at the same boost.

    If the boost was upped to 9.5 psi... it would have set some records. The run was done on slipping clutch packs, tranny was simply done. It is too late to go back and we wished we noticed it earlier so we could have used a different pulley, but, you guys can figure out what another 2 PSI would do Click here to enlarge

    I also want to address this comment:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PencilGeek
    Sticky's dynos.
    LOL is right. I've seen Sticky's dynos yesterday. They read more like a greek tragedy than a success story. He torque curve is so screwed up that he doesn't gain a single ft/lb of torque from 4000-5400 RPMs. He's only making 551whp on 9PSI. Funny that these guys claim he's making more power on less boost, and over 600whp on 8PSI, but never post the dyno graphs. I now see that he's making 551 whp on 9 PSI (his best run of all five), runs completely catless, runs C16 racing fuel, and runs meth as a fuel additive and only makes 40 more whp than Drew on 91 octane. If that's not a tragedy, I don't know how to describe it.

    Now that I've seen them, I can understand why they don't post them.
    With all due respect, I just got these graphs 33 minutes ago. Is that posting it fast enough for you? Secondly, I'm not playing around with gear ratios to mislead people. Plus, aren't these numbers much higher than yours? Didn't you go back to this dyno and only put down 520 whp?

    What is wrong with the torque curve? Seems it mirrors Drew's just fine and IS gaining torque. So what are you reaching for? I know you hold me responsible for destroying your reputation (you can blame yourself) but the car was not run on C16 either. So 40 whp at 7.5 psi over Drew at 7.5 psi is a tragedy? Want to know what a tragedy really is? A built 4.6 liter stroker motor getting whooped on by stock 4.0 motors. Click here to enlarge

  2. #2
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    Nice...good post! Was at shop today...excited to see some times from the next car being finished!
    Current:
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    Wsir - 1:28:9
    Buttonwillow C13 - 1:54:1

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    Amazing how so very similar both graphs are, they nearly mirror each other, just one with more power. Makes me think the tune is straight perfect!

    Paging Drew, time to trade in the cats for more horses!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
    Amazing how so very similar both graphs are, they nearly mirror each other, just one with more power. Makes me think the tune is straight perfect!

    Paging Drew, time to trade in the cats for more horses!
    So.. you are saying my torque isn't skrewed up? Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So.. you are saying my torque isn't skrewed up? Click here to enlarge
    Comparing the torque to the SC S54's, they looks pretty good. The S54's have a flatter curve, but the s65 puts out a little bit more peak, but I have to say that the s65 has a higher redline, which usually reduces rwtq. It

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    Just saw another dyno on another car with the same setup being compared above and it validated what is being aid here, the cat's seem to be worth about 30rwhp!!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
    Just saw another dyno on another car with the same setup being compared above and it validated what is being aid here, the cat's seem to be worth about 30rwhp!!
    Don't forget my custom longtubes...

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    Nice results! Lots of power up top where you really need it! Can you overlay PG's dyno sheet so I can see what all the fuss is about?

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    wow those are crazy numbers! I can't wait to get my kit. I think I will do the headers too. But just for that crazy sound your car makes Click here to enlarge
    Power Mods: Dinan pulley, Dinan Flash,Dinan Intake, Dinan 3.62, Gintani Race Mufflers, Gintani catless Xpipe,
    Cosmetic: Molded Vorsteiner Poly-Lip, LED Interior Lights, LUX H8, Black Side Vents,Glossy Black Kidneys, Reflectors Delete, Smoked Tail Lights, CF Vorsteiner Trunk, V1 Hardwire

  10. #10
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
    Comparing the torque to the SC S54's, they looks pretty good. The S54's have a flatter curve, but the s65 puts out a little bit more peak, but I have to say that the s65 has a higher redline, which usually reduces rwtq. It
    The S65 could have a much better curve but the cams actually seem rather conservative as does the stroke.

    The piston speed is much, much lower than the S54 comparatively but that also means the S65 has more gain in this particular area.

    I am going to do an S54 vs. S65 technical analysis this week I think.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Nice results! Lots of power up top where you really need it! Can you overlay PG's dyno sheet so I can see what all the fuss is about?
    Uh oh, you sure he won't try to sue us all?

    Robert, go after Terry this time! He won't mind giving you $250k.

    Here are his results:

    Click here to enlarge

    He didn't post his second set of graphs when he went back and only hit 520 whp? Wonder why... although I bet I know who could get them Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The S65 could have a much better curve but the cams actually seem rather conservative as does the stroke.

    The piston speed is much, much lower than the S54 comparatively but that also means the S65 has more gain in this particular are.

    I am going to do an S54 vs. S65 technical analysis this week I think.
    I hope, for the s65's sake, HPF isn't involved in this comparison...

    Haha, I kid I kid Click here to enlarge

    Let me know if I can help ya Click here to enlarge

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    Terry, and everyone else, if you want something to really make you scratch your head, look at this SC M3 dyno:

    Click here to enlarge

    Peak torque at redline? Ok.... if they say so Click here to enlarge

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    I think Drew will have some fun with what he has got now! then upgrade to cattless primary only and keep his secondary cats.

    I mean he drives the car everyday.
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

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    I think the above 635rwhp dyno is from a s54 no?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
    I think the above 635rwhp dyno is from a s54 no?
    Nope, it is an SC S65... but the graph doesn't look right, does it?

    Since we have a decent amount of SC M3 results now, I think I will make a compilation thread.

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    no, thats from s65
    Current:
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    They may just be running a smaller pulley (or larger crank pulley) making more boost up there. Doesn't do you much good if you only use it for a few hundred RPM though IMHO.

    Also you and Drew may have belt slippage up top. Have a boost trace? Stock serp belt setups are notorious for it as I'm sure you know. Running a drilled and slotted blower pulleys yet? The real key to making power with a blower is running a huge blower and/or a good enough belt system to actually hold the boost you want to hold. Not to mention keeping it from cracking a ring land with the high static compression ratio.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by skoot3r Click here to enlarge
    wow those are crazy numbers! I can't wait to get my kit. I think I will do the headers too. But just for that crazy sound your car makes Click here to enlarge
    My kit may be available for a good deal Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Nope, it is an SC S65... but the graph doesn't look right, does it?

    Since we have a decent amount of SC M3 results now, I think I will make a compilation thread.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammyrusso Click here to enlarge
    no, thats from s65
    I have almost no doubt that is the same exact graph they posted on other forums claiming it was a built s54 @ 15psi, which in itself is extremely fishy!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    They may just be running a smaller pulley (or larger crank pulley) making more boost up there. Doesn't do you much good if you only use it for a few hundred RPM though IMHO.

    Also you and Drew may have belt slippage up top. Have a boost trace? Stock serp belt setups are notorious for it as I'm sure you know. Running a drilled and slotted blower pulleys yet? The real key to making power with a blower is running a huge blower and/or a good enough belt system to actually hold the boost you want to hold. Not to mention keeping it from cracking a ring land with the high static compression ratio.
    They are running a very nice 8 rib belt system, I HIGHLY doubt any belt slipage!

  21. #21
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    They may just be running a smaller pulley (or larger crank pulley) making more boost up there. Doesn't do you much good if you only use it for a few hundred RPM though IMHO.

    Also you and Drew may have belt slippage up top. Have a boost trace? Stock serp belt setups are notorious for it as I'm sure you know. Running a drilled and slotted blower pulleys yet? The real key to making power with a blower is running a huge blower and/or a good enough belt system to actually hold the boost you want to hold. Not to mention keeping it from cracking a ring land with the high static compression ratio.
    Terry, it doesn't really matter if you run more boost or less, you can't change the natural curve of the motor. Every independent dyno looks different from that particular curve.... I don't see a way to make peak torque at redline with this motor. However, peak torque at redline will provide very nice peak HP figures on a high revving motor, right?

    The Vortech T-Trim is a pretty big blower... it can support 30 psi and well over 800 hp.

    I honestly don't know if the pulley is drilled and slotted. I don't think we have any belt slippage issues, Gpower graphs look similar and they haven't had any belt slippage issues. All dynos look the same except that one... would it really be a question of more boost when I was running more boost than that on a centrifugal as well?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Uh oh, you sure he won't try to sue us all?

    Robert, go after Terry this time! He won't mind giving you $250k.

    Here are his results:

    He didn't post his second set of graphs when he went back and only hit 520 whp? Wonder why... although I bet I know who could get them Click here to enlarge
    PS. It looks like I'm going to need that $250k to buy my employees health insurance now. Damnit! Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
    I have almost no doubt that is the same exact graph they posted on other forums claiming it was a built s54 @ 15psi, which in itself is extremely fishy!
    Nope, S65, claimed 93 octane as well: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=302830

    I can't figure it out.

    They are running a very nice 8 rib belt system, I HIGHLY doubt any belt slipage!
    And there is the answer! Click here to enlarge Thanks, yep, no slippage.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Terry, it doesn't really matter if you run more boost or less, you can't change the natural curve of the motor. Every independent dyno looks different from that particular curve.... I don't see a way to make peak torque at redline with this motor. However, peak torque at redline will provide very nice peak HP figures on a high revving motor, right?

    The Vortech T-Trim is a pretty big blower... it can support 30 psi and well over 800 hp.

    I honestly don't know if the pulley is drilled and slotted. I don't think we have any belt slippage issues, Gpower graphs look similar and they haven't had any belt slippage issues. All dynos look the same except that one... would it really be a question of more boost when I was running more boost than that on a centrifugal as well?
    I'm very familiar with the T-trim. Good blower. Peak torque @ redline is possible with enough boost... Actually the run I thought was yours with slippage was really PG's, power wavering up top. So bottom line you guys all make around 560rw, but he has more CI and some head work?

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    these seem similar with the above..but has lil more drop off..but gained 40whp from 1lb of boost i think, maybe diff exhausts?...lil diff, i dont know what i means...just contributing

    7psi
    Click here to enlarge
    8psi
    Click here to enlarge
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