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    Stock turbo housings' limits?

    RB turbo upgrade wheels might be maxing the stock turbo housing. So, what happens when we have better cams, upgrade to forged light rods and pistons, upgrade the head and all the valves, increase the revs to 7600rpm etc. How serious in that case are the tiny turbo exits and turbo tu FMIC pipings?

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    The whole problem for the N54 really is the tiny turbo housings and the fuel system.

    In my opinion, those are the main bottlenecks. Once those are addressed, the cams and heads become even more of a necessity.
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    Stock housing upgraded turbos have a certain demographic. 450rwhp on pump with great streetability is nothing to sneeze at. Nor is 511rwhp on race/meth, we are hung up at a fuel system limitation at the moment but even RBs will approach a point of diminishing returns at a point regardless of how much PSI you try to push them at. Unfortunately the stock housings will only do so much. The exhaust side I think will be become a massive restriction in excess of 550rwhp. I have the biggest wheel that can fit into the turbine housing, but that's only part of the equation. The housing frame is still the same size (great for spool, not so much for massive airflow).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    Stock housing upgraded turbos have a certain demographic. 450rwhp on pump with great streetability is nothing to sneeze at. Nor is 511rwhp on race/meth, we are hung up at a fuel system limitation at the moment but even RBs will approach a point of diminishing returns at a point regardless of how much PSI you try to push them at. Unfortunately the stock housings will only do so much. The exhaust side I think will be become a massive restriction in excess of 550rwhp. I have the biggest wheel that can fit into the turbine housing, but that's only part of the equation. The housing frame is still the same size (great for spool, not so much for massive airflow).
    There is still room for development in engine breathing i.e. head and cams, since that enables RBs to run less boost for certain power level, and less boost means less octane requirement meaning that while the race gas + meth will hit the ceiling at some point, pump gas still has gains. RBs with well flowing head could be at 500whp on pump gas.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    There is still room for development in engine breathing i.e. head and cams, since that enables RBs to run less boost for certain power level, and less boost means less octane requirement meaning that while the race gas + meth will hit the ceiling at some point, pump gas still has gains. RBs with well flowing head could be at 500whp on pump gas.
    Yep, you make a good point here. Making more power at less boost isn't necessarily a bad thing, greater efficiency.
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    I don't think head work, and cams will be necessary for awhile. I think people will be pretty impressed once the fuel system is addressed and a properly sized single turbo is utilized. For now the rb's provide more than enough power for your average guy.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    I don't think head work, and cams will be necessary for awhile. I think people will be pretty impressed once the fuel system is addressed and a properly sized single turbo is utilized. For now the rb's provide more than enough power for your average guy.
    It's just that single is not available. Head work is. It is the only option we have for going forward after the twin upgrade.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    It's just that single is not available. Head work is. It is the only option we have for going forward after the twin upgrade.
    Exactly....
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    Now that you mention it, why is it all the single turbo setups seemingly disappeared?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Now that you mention it, why is it all the single turbo setups seemingly disappeared?
    That's what I've been thinking....something with longevity? Hmm...OP brings an interesting point.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DarkPhantom Click here to enlarge
    That's what I've been thinking....something with longevity? Hmm...OP brings an interesting point.
    Longevity isn't the issue, packaging, tuning, and fuel is.
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    Even with head work you will still be chocked by the stock turbine housings. I'm sure you will see gains, but nothing worth spending the money on imo. For single turbo all you need is somebody to make you a manifold and go from there. A4ringed1.8t on bfc works for either lutz performance or 1552, I can't remember which one, But he builds customs manifolds for people all the time for different platforms. If you're truely interested in more power that would be my first stop. I think the stock head and cams will go farther than you guys think.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    Even with head work you will still be chocked by the stock turbine housings. I'm sure you will see gains, but nothing worth spending the money on imo. For single turbo all you need is somebody to make you a manifold and go from there. A4ringed1.8t on bfc works for either lutz performance or 1552, I can't remember which one, But he builds customs manifolds for people all the time for different platforms. If you're truely interested in more power that would be my first stop. I think the stock head and cams will go farther than you guys think.
    This is basically why I started the thread. There are a lot of upgraded twins out there. Rob is finalising his second batch of 15 pairs and there are others as well. Singles are not available and the space restrictions and tuning difficulties may keep them out for some time. So does it make sense to upgrade the head for the upgraded twins guys? I believe we will see soon but the first one to try should ask this very question. Is there diameter enough in the stock housings to upgrade the engine and how much? Head cams pistons rods...?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    Even with head work you will still be chocked by the stock turbine housings. I'm sure you will see gains, but nothing worth spending the money on imo. For single turbo all you need is somebody to make you a manifold and go from there. A4ringed1.8t on bfc works for either lutz performance or 1552, I can't remember which one, But he builds customs manifolds for people all the time for different platforms. If you're truely interested in more power that would be my first stop. I think the stock head and cams will go farther than you guys think.
    Oh for sure, the stock head and cams will go much, much further. Thing is, without fueling solutions and with no single turbos guys that want more power right now have to look at those as the heads are available and cams are coming.
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    In all honesty, I'm not only surprised that the RB's can make 500+ WHP in stock housings, but I'm also surprised the bone stock turbos can make 400+ WHP. I have a set of the stockers in my garage, and they are tiny! I can't believe they weren't maxed out at factory HP levels.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
    In all honesty, I'm not only surprised that the RB's can make 500+ WHP in stock housings, but I'm also surprised the bone stock turbos can make 400+ WHP. I have a set of the stockers in my garage, and they are tiny! I can't believe they weren't maxed out at factory HP levels.
    BMW wanted them tiny not only for spool but also to avoid tuning. Well.. this is what happens with turbo motors.
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    And space constraints, it all fits nice and clean but it's very tight. It would be a very sloppy fit trying to cram anything bigger in there IMO.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    BMW wanted them tiny not only for spool but also to avoid tuning. Well.. this is what happens with turbo motors.

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    i think with head work at 16-17 psi will be 500whp... next is fuel
    JB4LIFE

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    Well if you increase the airflow in and out of the engine, wouldn't you need more fuel To support it? Or does that mean you now can only run 16-17 psi with a well flowed head before you lean out, instead of 20psi..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Well if you increase the airflow in and out of the engine, wouldn't you need more fuel To support it? Or does that mean you now can only run 16-17 psi with a well flowed head before you lean out, instead of 20psi..
    This is what I think is going to happen as well. more air moving, moving easier, hence a HP per PSI gain, but overall fuel requirements/ demands are going to be greater, so yes, more HP per psi/@ lower psi, but maxed fuel system earlier as well..

    until a fuel solution is found anyway..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    This is what I think is going to happen as well. more air moving, moving easier, hence a HP per PSI gain, but overall fuel requirements/ demands are going to be greater, so yes, more HP per psi/@ lower psi, but maxed fuel system earlier as well..

    until a fuel solution is found anyway..
    Headwork will give you more headroom... haha, get it? Anyway, yes, you will still be limited by fueling but you would like to make as much power as you can at the lowest boost possible.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Headwork will give you more headroom... haha, get it? Anyway, yes, you will still be limited by fueling but you would like to make as much power as you can at the lowest boost possible.
    well yes, i agree, but that brings me back to the point of ill just wait until fuel is there and do it all at once.. heads/fuel/pistons... if i keep it..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    This is what I think is going to happen as well. more air moving, moving easier, hence a HP per PSI gain, but overall fuel requirements/ demands are going to be greater, so yes, more HP per psi/@ lower psi, but maxed fuel system earlier as well..

    until a fuel solution is found anyway..
    Yes. Well, there is a very slight efficiency increase (VE) so basically in theory you need a little less fuel per whp but what you said is about correct in practice.
    The octane can be also slightly lower due less psi.

    I hope the fueling will be solved at some point this year, or next.

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    How much are they ported when companies put the bigger comp wheels?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    well yes, i agree, but that brings me back to the point of ill just wait until fuel is there and do it all at once.. heads/fuel/pistons... if i keep it..
    What will happen is some kind of fueling solution will come about and you will kick yourself for getting rid of it after going this far.

    You are going to get what, not even mid 20's for your car? And you will go get what? A much more expensive car and then need 10's of thousands to modify that to a high level? It's not my money, I just think it wouldn't hurt you to sit tight and see if there is a fueling development in the next few months.
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