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Thread: N54 Failure

  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by WOPALX Click here to enlarge
    Why is it dumb?
    Because you are blaming a tuner for operator error?

    Also because you basing a need for adjusting timing based on nothing other than what Shiv fed you. What makes you think the ecu capable of adjusting timing for the stock motor isn't capable of doing it for a modified one? The factory ecu is far more sophisticated than any piggy, sorry.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mazdaspeed6 Click here to enlarge
    ^ he was jb4
    Yes but he didnt even really push it. He said he was warming up with a pass or two and that's when it started making noise.

    The issue started with the jb3, running super aggressive maps in which it wasn't set up for.

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    its dumb because would you blame yankee candle for burning down a house because someone put there candle next to there drapes?
    Last edited by mazdaspeed6; 02-17-2011 at 09:54 AM.
    JB4LIFE

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Yes but he didnt even really push it. He said he was warming up with a pass or two and that's when it started making noise.

    The issue started with the jb3, running super aggressive maps in which it wasn't set up for.
    exactly...look at the people like lostmarine, myself, terry, mike, old booster who ever uses bms tunes and sets there car up properly arent the ones having problems knock on wood.. it seems its the ones who just go throw on race maps running high boost and no safety's or not enough octane that are having issues
    JB4LIFE

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by WOPALX Click here to enlarge
    OP on e90 just indicated initial dealer diagnosis is bad turbos..... but they are still checking.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by WOPALX Click here to enlarge
    Doesn't really seam the tuner really knows what he was doing IMHO.

    Increased boost and fuel generally needs timing to be changed as well. Flash tunes do it, factory remaps do it but JB3/4 relies on factory, stock timing maps. Either Terry is a genius or he's wrong? Personally I would not trust him with my lawnmower .
    I think you are confused with mixing turbos, "increasing fuel" and "timing to be changed" etc. Let me say e.g. that "bad turbos" don't have much to do with timing maps and that "increasing fuel" as you put it, does not really require changing timing since if you keep the timing as it was, the higher octane fuel just adds to the safety margin.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Because you are blaming a tuner for operator error?

    Also because you basing a need for adjusting timing based on nothing other than what Shiv fed you. What makes you think the ecu capable of adjusting timing for the stock motor isn't capable of doing it for a modified one? The factory ecu is far more sophisticated than any piggy, sorry.
    You're clueless. You should stop posting about engine tuning, ignition advance and knock.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You want me to throw up a headline on the front page because some guy with 3 posts makes a poorly worded post on n54tech? ...



    Nothing fed? You just basically restate Shiv's statement on the timing.

    I'm glad you put it up, don't get me wrong, but you seem to be doing it out of spite.

    ...
    Just to clear some things up here before we get too crazy. The guy made the exact same original post on both e90post and n54tech. He has been on e90 since April 2009 and has 1,000 posts with 4 itrader, so it isn't like he popped out of nowhere. Yes he came off sounding half cocked, but has since calmed down.

    On the timing front we're all going to sound like Shiv when talking about timing, but it's not because we only got our information from him. It's an ongoing debate on the other place about how safe it is to let the DME handle all timing, especially with people doing things like running race maps on pump and that happens more often than we'd probably like to admit.

    Also, you have to admit, as much as I credit Terry's honesty and fact that common sense should have prevailed- going back to edit the details of what was required on what map is backfilling, plain and simple.

    I say all this hoping calmer heads will prevail and we can learn from this users experience and mistakes.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Don't blame it on the tune! You're the only one to blame for your own mistakes.
    current: '12 E92 M3

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    uh, maybe im just as dumb as shiv says i am, but i dont see anywhere where the op states what is actually wrong with the car, ie confirmed by a mechanic and not a kid that cant comprehend octane requirements, or can amd disregards them..

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    I find it pretty funny whats being said about Terry and the Jb3-Jb4 platform. Im no longer in the N54 scene, but I ran a JB3 tune on my car for a LONG time and never had any issues with the tune itself (I had issues with my faulty injectors). Furthermore, after literally 100's of emails to Terry about an issue that didnt even have to do with his tune, we finally solved the problem and got it rectified. Given this, from my experience the JB3 was very safe if the proper maps were used - I can only imagine that the JB4, with increased CAN control etc..., is a way better tune and wouldnt be the culprit of such a problem. Did he have meth when running higher octane maps? Did he have a failsafe? Was the meth flowing? Did he log timing and ensure that his car was capable of the higher boost levels? Who knows, but probably not. There will always be people out there who half-ass $#@! and think they can get away with it (as in this case, running a higher map without the proper octane) - but this time around it bit the OP in his ass, hard. It sucks, but theres nothing that can be said at this point - time to pick up the pieces and move forward.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SSDD Click here to enlarge
    Just to clear some things up here before we get too crazy. The guy made the exact same original post on both e90post and n54tech. He has been on e90 since April 2009 and has 1,000 posts with 4 itrader, so it isn't like he popped out of nowhere. Yes he came off sounding half cocked, but has since calmed down.

    On the timing front we're all going to sound like Shiv when talking about timing, but it's not because we only got our information from him. It's an ongoing debate on the other place about how safe it is to let the DME handle all timing, especially with people doing things like running race maps on pump and that happens more often than we'd probably like to admit.

    Also, you have to admit, as much as I credit Terry's honesty and fact that common sense should have prevailed- going back to edit the details of what was required on what map is backfilling, plain and simple.

    I say all this hoping calmer heads will prevail and we can learn from this users experience and mistakes.
    The beta guide is edited several times per week with new information, firmware, directions, etc. Adding a line to the map guide reminding people that the race gas map is for race gas made sense to me. I don't think it was related to OPs issue but we have 100s of people per day reading that sticky. If one person didn't get the message best to make it more clear IMHO.

  12. #37
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    The way I see it is that even if/when terr provides the option to retard timing, the procede camp will continue to attack saying something is wrong, etc etc etc and this will go on forever. Honestly, I think it's just a matter of time.

    Not to be a hater on Shiv but what will you say if the Jb offers timing advance? Are you really looking for the benefit of the people or are you just capitalizing on this difference in features?
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    LOL we do retard timing! Stock timing + double boost would give something like a 99% motor failure rate within 1 week.

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    ^ no offense intended Terry. Just trying to provide some perspective. I would think the word Beta would let people know some research is required and you need to ask if you aren't clear on something.

    It was summed up well elsewhere that this isn't the first time the guy has had issues:
    1) No fail safe on the Meth
    2) Water pump issues?
    3) Leaking meth tank
    4) Misfires
    5) VANOS codes[/QUOTE]
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    LOL we do retard timing! Stock timing + double boost would give something like a 99% motor failure rate within 1 week.
    There lol! So let me get this question out just for everybody who would like To understand: camp Vishnu are upset that you allow factory to retard timing as opposed to Jb4 directly changing it?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    There lol! So let me get this question out just for everybody who would like To understand: camp Vishnu are upset that you allow factory to retard timing as opposed to Jb4 directly changing it?
    Meaning the JB4 has no direct timing control? I'm confused.

    If JB4 has direct timing control, how is it accomplished? Clarification: If the Procede accomplishes timing control via it's CPS offsetting and JB4 physically doesn't have the ability to offset the CPS signal realtime, how are you retarding timing? You can put this to rest for good.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    There lol! So let me get this question out just for everybody who would like To understand: camp Vishnu are upset that you allow factory to retard timing as opposed to Jb4 directly changing it?
    Everyone agrees both systems retard timing. Except the odd users/fanboys who have no technical understanding of the matter and no ability to read logs. The debate is over which system allows more knock and how the timing is reduced. We rely heavily on the DME's long term timing trims while the procede for example relies only moderately on those same trims. But without those trims neither tune would work properly. Make no mistake, both tunes rely on them.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SSDD Click here to enlarge
    ^ no offense intended Terry. Just trying to provide some perspective. I would think the word Beta would let people know some research is required and you need to ask if you aren't clear on something.

    It was summed up well elsewhere that this isn't the first time the guy has had issues:
    1) No fail safe on the Meth
    2) Water pump issues?
    3) Leaking meth tank
    4) Misfires
    5) VANOS codes
    None taken. Actually the OP posted a rant on N54tech about him not knowing map 7 was meant for race gas, that he doesn't need our money (we never offered any?), etc, etc. No idea what the guy was walking about to be honest and I have yet to receive any contact from him asking for advice, etc, which is the first thing he should have done. Sent in copies of the codes and video of the noise so I could guess at the problem and the best way for him to get it fixed. He's running meth so he should have been on map 3 with a progressive fail safe. Given the history of problems with the car, especially the overheating, I guess nothing would surprise me.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Everyone agrees both systems retard timing. Except the odd users/fanboys who have no technical understanding of the matter and no ability to read logs. The debate is over which system allows more knock and how the timing is reduced. We rely heavily on the DME's long term timing trims while the procede for example relies only moderately on those same trims. But without those trims neither tune would work properly. Make no mistake, both tunes rely on them.
    I get it. And I'm just playing devils advocate just to stop procedes from repeatin the word knock one more time. Last question for now: so if you wanted to, you could offer this option in the near future rendering all "lack of timing" arguments useless, with an option to choose between the two for those with much higher boost levels as well?

    I personally have had no issues and have never heard of normal users ever suffering from timing faults. I am simply asking questions.

    Finally, good lick OP and what turned out to be the issue?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TerryBMS Click here to enlarge
    LOL we do retard timing! Stock timing + double boost would give something like a 99% motor failure rate within 1 week.
    Click here to enlarge

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    I believed CPS offsetting is (will be) offered on the BMS PRO Board.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AtlHarry335 Click here to enlarge
    I believed CPS offsetting is (will be) offered on the BMS PRO Board.
    This
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AtlHarry335 Click here to enlarge
    I believed CPS offsetting is (will be) offered on the BMS PRO Board.
    Definitely. We really need it to advance timing setpoints with the N55 tuning on meth/race gas. Just got back to coding on that system the other day as we're about caught up with JB4 upgrades now.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Definitely. We really need it to advance timing setpoints with the N55 tuning on meth/race gas.
    Sweet, how far along is it?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    Sweet, how far along is it?
    I have a couple weeks of coding to go for it but many other lingering projects as well. All I/O and boot loader are active, next I need to write the CAN libraries. It's sort of a pita as our proton 18F compiler doesn't support the 24 processor so we had to port all the code over to MPLAB. Anyway our first application with that board will be for the N55 Stage2.

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