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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bimmerbear Click here to enlarge
    That post didn't clear anything up for me (none of my questions were answered either). Do we really know what killed the first motor for sure? Pistons hitting the valves due to the VANOS? The specifics are being quelled; that's all I'm saying.
    You raise the same question I have, there isn't any clarification here.

    The first failure, the second, we don't know. Bavarian Solutions did dissemble the first failure and repair it so they should know exactly what it was and secondly I doubt they would cover it if they were not to blame unless they really are that nice.

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  2. #52
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    Does anybody here have the OK to speak on Bav Sol part? Or at least know first hand the cause of engine failure and why? What all these M5 FI problems be helped with vanos delete?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    Does anybody here have the OK to speak on Bav Sol part? Or at least know first hand the cause of engine failure and why? What all these M5 FI problems be helped with vanos delete?
    Seems everyone is keeping quiet...

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  4. #54
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    It does seem so. I am really interested in not who is at fault, but rather what was the cause of failures (to help the BMW V8 FI community)

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    It does seem so. I am really interested in not who is at fault, but rather what was the cause of failures (to help the BMW V8 FI community)
    Same here, did they at least say what caused it the first time?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Same here, did they at least say what caused it the first time?
    Ditto. The first failure had "something to do with the VANOS," but that's all I read, nothing more. Most of the dudes on M5Board either go silent or give you a run-around post when someone else starts asking the hard questions. I guess we'll hear what they want us to hear.

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    Frankly, M5Board reminds me of the "Real Housewives of BMW".

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    In the M5Board thread, what no one is mentioning is that the entire block had to be changed do to cracks around the cylinder # 1 sleeve.

    If it was the Vanos then why only 1 cylinder had bend valves in the 1st failure (does Vanos control each cylinder seperately?). How come in the second failure, the knock sirens went off but they claim it wasnt engine knock, but rather internal noise that was being picked up. Then the compression is checked and is good but the problem progressively gets worse until the engine oil is silver in color (according to what the owner says!) Does this sound like a tuning or clashing of parts issue to anyone?

    I think Bav Sol needs to make a statement so poeple like me who are gear heads and in the same realm with this engine type should not have to make comments and assumptions like this in an attemp to find out what happen. Especially after the owner done let dogs out the bag.

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge

    Here is the other side of the story that includes pieces from Bavarian Solutions perspective. This information was sent to BimmerBoost anonymously and we will present the information to you to come to your own conclusion. Thus far, Bavarian Solutions has been relatively quiet while many have taken the owners side some having jumped to conclusions. What we present here is inside information to balance out what was been written thus far and provide additional insight which members have requested.

    The owner of the car, Peter, goes by the name Herrubermensch and is a financial/bankruptcy attorney. What we have learned is the owner has bluffed about the motor being disassembled for "forensic" evidence and the car is currently sitting as is at Northeast Motorsports. The owner has been difficult to please and has thrown his weight around as an "attorney" from the beginning. His deal for the built motor was, well, quite the deal. How good? Almost cost on parts and very little on discounted labor. He was in constant communication with Dave at Bavarian Solutions and received quick responses to all of his frequent inquiries, any time of day. We have been told he is difficult to please and demands things to be done his way. Some would describe this as suffering from "attorney syndrome". He makes it very clear to everyone he is an attorney, how important his firm is, how much they bill, etc.

    Now, it is true the first built motor was blown and Bavarian Solutions rebuilt it. However, the cause of the failure has been determined to be a defective bank one VANOS unit. Mike from NorthEast Motorsports verified that the defect caused a binding issue. It would seem Peter (the owner of the car in question) agrees with this assessment. When the motor was spun by hand it would lock and when this happens it causes the pistons to collide with the valves which is obviously not a good thing. Bavarian Solutions received blame for this motor although it is my opinion it should be directed at Dr. Vanos. Bavarian Solutions has stayed out of it and is not slinging mud at anyone even though they are taking heat for a failure caused by something which was not their responsibility.

    The second failure is either a result of the tuner or the installation. We do not definitively know yet as the motor has not been taken apart to determine the point of failure. We will not delve into the pricing and such but the second motor was not done for free and that is the most we can say about that. Due to the VANOS issue not being sorted they decided not to install it on the second motor. There are a couple videos on M5board that show the motor running fine prior to the tuning. There was nothing wrong with the motor at this point except for a rough idle obviously due to the cams not being calibrated. When the oil was analyzed from the second failure after the tuning, there was no copper in it which has to do with the bearings. There was only aluminum and since Bavarian Solutions uses these pistons in their forced induction builds they are familiar what the results look like due to a piston failure from lack of fuel which is what they believe accounts for the aluminum in the oil.

    The tuner was the mysterious Mr. X who has a reputation as a guru. However, why the need for anonymity? All other tuners do not hide behind a secret name. What is the reason for it here? Well, Mr. X's amazing abilities may be a bit overblown. There are two high-dollar failures in South Africa that are attributed to him and he quickly vanished from the scene after the failures, smart move when dealing with big dollar builds in South Africa. This is an area where the anonymity works in his favor as there is apparently a price on his head and a warrant seeking his arrest. There happen to also be a few clients in Puerto Rico who are not too happy with his work. Now the motor ran fine before it was tuned and during the tuning process they heard a loud pop which is documented and they pushed forward.

    So what is the true story here? Well, you decide, but our job is to provide you all the pieces. The first failure it would not appear was the fault of Bavarian Solutions and all parties decided to stay away from the VANOS for a reason it would seem. No copper in the oil of the second failure shows it likely was not a build issue. Dave the owner of Bavarian Solutions offered to take the motor apart at his cost to determine the cause of failure. That speaks of confidence in the build and of a courtesy to the customer even though Bavarian Solutions does not have to do this by any means. In addition, Dave offered to do this disassembly in front of Peter with any witnesses he wished to show there was nothing to hide. Peter has not taken Bavarian Solutions up on this and instead has decided to flaunt his legal muscle.

    We will keep you updated on any additional developments but this is where things currently stand.

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  10. #60
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    Interesting if its true that they guy got hooked up from the start imo he should be glad they paid for the first motor. My thing is why go thru a build like that and use rebuilt VANOS instead of NEW ones to go with a NEW motor?
    Kees on M5 Board is my bitch....

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
    imo he should be glad they paid for the first motor
    This is not exactly the case.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
    My thing is why go thru a build like that and use rebuilt VANOS instead of NEW ones to go with a NEW motor?
    Do not know, this is a good question.

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  12. #62
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    After reading his weights and expensive dinners with his hot wife reply I immediately knew the type... avoid at all costs.. I turn those customers away pronto. They're always more problems then they're worth.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    After reading his weights and expensive dinners with his hot wife reply I immediately knew the type... avoid at all costs.. I turn those customers away pronto. They're always more problems then they're worth.
    Sorry, weights?

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  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Sorry, weights?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by herrubermensch
    No long explanation needed here. Mr. X began tuning and trying to obtain a baseline on the engine yesterday when we lost cylinder no 5. Subsequently, one could hear audible piston slap in bank 2, and the no. 3 knock sensor was going nuts, putting out 1.5v. Subsequent investigation of the oil filter revealed substantial chunks of aluminum throughout, and the oil was downright silver it had so much aluminum content. Most likely explanation is a chunk of piston and/or block. Anyway, the upshot is: catastrophic failure again.

    I can imagine everyone's reaction to this, so let me say in advance that I appreciate your well wishes. But pending a resolution of the legal issues, I would very much appreciate it if everyone would moderate their tone and be a little circumspect in their posts. Dave V and I are communicating, and I'm sure we will reach an appropriate resolution soon.

    I'm going to go beat up on some innocent weights in the weight room, then go have a top-flight dinner in downtown Manhattan with my gorgeous wife and try to forget about all of this, just for a while.

    Best,

    Peter
    http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...ml#post2005277

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    This is pretty much what we summed up on BF.com, and then the owner and his freinds came on calling us all out for taking Bav Sols side. its pretty obvious what happened, and I hate when people come on and sling their professional djck around like this attorney.

    I also made a comment that you would think a high priced attorney would understand that he can be counter sued for libel after what he has done over the forums to BavSol. He has no engineering degree and really doesnt know much about these cars if he thinks he can diagnose cause without opening it. How the hell does he think he knows enough to diagnose without opeing the motor, and hence further open a lawsuit without proper diagnostic.

    Im going to edit here some: Im going after the owner because I think he is being way overzelous about this and slinging blame without proof of cause of failure. That is dirty pool IMHO. Now if the failure is build or on the hands of BavSol, I think they will fix it (or should). I just want to get out that I am pessimistic of the owner because the way he is handling this. Doesnt seem very classy to me.
    Last edited by rt turbo; 02-21-2011 at 11:56 AM.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rt turbo Click here to enlarge
    WTF kind of lawyer is this?!!
    A buff one with a smokin' wife that eats at top-flight restaurants. He's legit.

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    LOL he is a legit douche!

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    "The tuner was the mysterious Mr. X who has a reputation as a guru. However, why the need for anonymity? All other tuners do not hide behind a secret name. What is the reason for it here? Well, Mr. X's amazing abilities may be a bit overblown. There are two high-dollar failures in South Africa that are attributed to him and he quickly vanished from the scene after the failures, smart move when dealing with big dollar builds in South Africa. This is an area where the anonymity works in his favor as there is apparently a price on his head and a warrant seeking his arrest. There happen to also be a few clients in Puerto Rico who are not too happy with his work. Now the motor ran fine before it was tuned and during the tuning process they heard a loud pop which is documented and they pushed forward."

    Wow, I didn't see this coming. But I always wondered why the the stupid "Mr.X" name. You do not want to mess around with South Africans. Just google Uwe Gemballa.

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rt turbo Click here to enlarge
    This is pretty much what we summed up on BF.com, and then the owner and his freinds came on calling us all out for taking Bav Sols side. its pretty obvious what happened, and I hate when people come on and sling their professional djck around like this attorney.

    I also made a comment that you would think a high priced attorney would understand that he can be counter sued for libel after what he has done over the forums to BavSol. He has no engineering degree and really doesnt know much about these cars if he thinks he can diagnose cause without opening it. How the hell does he think he knows enough to diagnose without opeing the motor, and hence further open a lawsuit without proper diagnostic.

    Im going to edit here some: Im going after the owner because I think he is being way overzelous about this and slinging blame without proof of cause of failure. That is dirty pool IMHO. Now if the failure is build or on the hands of BavSol, I think they will fix it (or should). I just want to get out that I am pessimistic of the owner because the way he is handling this. Doesnt seem very classy to me.
    I don't read bf.c much but saw a thread was closed and so forth. Either way, that is our summary with some additional tidbits which should help the users come to their own conclusion.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    Wow, I didn't see this coming. But I always wondered why the the stupid "Mr.X" name. You do not want to mess around with South Africans. Just google Uwe Gemballa.
    This is exactly what I was thinking.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    A buff one with a smokin' wife that eats at top-flight restaurants. He's legit.
    +1 .. Laugh

    Click here to enlarge

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    i hate it when hard working shops get jerked around by some 'entitled' douche.
    he's kinda painted himself in a corner tho. how could he agree with having the engine opened up now? too much at stake for him if BavSol comes out clean.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    i hate it when hard working shops get jerked around by some 'entitled' douche.
    he's kinda painted himself in a corner tho. how could he agree with having the engine opened up now? too much at stake for him if BavSol comes out clean.
    He has painted himself into a corner a bit. Maybe he isn't as good of an attorney as he thinks he is?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I know Bav Sol has a really good reputation..I dont think they would have $#@!ed up on purpose, and even that it isnt really their fault they covered it and bought him a new engine.

    This is also why I avoid clients like these. They are too much headache, especially that hes got so much money, yet doesnt wanna allow me to make a profit on any parts and wants to pay nothing for labor. $#@! people like them.

    You want to be frugal about every nickel and dime, it will come back and bite you in the ass.

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    Geez, you guys are pretty harsh, I have to say. I don't think I know any of you personally, yet you purport to know me well enough from my posts and from Dave Vilanova's post above to level personal insults against me and my wife, for goodness sake. Very ugly and unkind. I am not an engineer; I wish I were. I'm just a Chapter 11 bankruptcy lawyer who loves cars and enjoys wrenching on them with my 14 year old son more than just about anything. Rediscovering my love for cars at a time when I have the opportunity to work on them and the money to do so has proven to be very cathartic for me. This whole episode with Dave is the very opposite of what I seek when I work on my car--to escape the ugliness of the legal world and focus on improving and enjoying cars with others who enjoy the same thing. And yes, I have developed some good friendships with many folks on the M5Board, which you guys deride as the "Housewives of BMW." And I have developed a fair amount of knowledge of the S62 and the E39 M5.

    I'm not going to recount all of the facts here, but suffice it to say that after an initial partial breakdown by Mike O'Neil at Northeast Motorsports to check for obvious causes of failure, the engine is now at VAC Motorsports in Philly for a complete teardown and forensic assessment. So the truth--whatever it may be--will be found out. I do not believe anything in the tuning was to blame, as timing as not advanced and AFRs were very rich when the engine's problems first showed themselves. You guys can deride "Mr. X," but there are good reasons for the silly name, and he is universally regarded as the top MSS52 tuner. The engine simply did not want to spin. Even with the vanos delete, which I agreed to in order ensure against a repeat performance of the first engine debacle, the engine did not spin freely, and the hotter it got, the greater the restriction. The initial teardown revealed no spun bearings, no burned pistons or valves, no valve-spring binding, etc. The principal issue was tons of ferrous material in the oil and tons of ferrous flakes and chunks in the oil filter and pan. About the only ferrous in this engine are the nodular cast iron sleeves. So the sleeves were being scraped by slapping pistons. This we know. Why this happened, we don't yet know, but we will.

    One of the principal reasons this process has dragged out is that, contrary to many promises from Dave, I have never received the blueprint of the engine. I'm starting to suspect that this is because the blueprint does not exist. I hope I am wrong and that Dave ultimately produces one. If he were serious about helping to resolve the issue rather than slam me in anonymous posts, I would have the blueprint in hand.

    I offered to settle this by having Dave pay for VAC to tear down the engine and determine the problem and fix it. Dave refused, saying that his group had to be the one to tear it down, and that I could have someone watch if I wanted. To those of you who say I should let Dave tear down the motor himself--again--I say ask yourself if you would do that. After my engine blew the first time, I gave my car to Dave for five months, I let him extract the engine himself in his own garage to save money, and gave him the opportunity to give me what he promised the first time--a well-built S62 that actually runs and makes something in excess of 800 bhp. Yet the motor exhibited so much piston slap while trying to establish a baseline on the dyno that the knock sensors on bank 2 were going nuts. I feel like I bent over backwards to give Dave the chance to make this situation right the first time--poor judgment on my part--and I wasn't going to make the same mistake again.

    The upshot is that I spent what is for me a tremendous amount of money on this project--now close to $50k--and was supposed to have a very high performance S62 in the car and tuned back in August 2010. Here I am in March 2011 and I still don't have a running engine, much less a complete project, and I'm facing the prospect of thousands of dollars of additional expense before I even know when I'll have a running engine, much less the high performance S62 I bargained for and that Dave agreed to build. All I can ask of those in this forum is to please put yourself in my position. If you had spent this much money, waited this long, and experienced multiple engine failures, what would you do? I don't think it is reasonable in those circumstances to have Dave once again try to diagnose the problem and resolve it.

    As for the kind of person I am, that is irrelevant to the diagnosis of engine failure and the quality or lack thereof in Dave Vilanova's work. My own assessment is that I feel I conducted myself in an extremely patient, polite and accommodating manner, I wired my money almost instantaneously when Dave asked for it, and openly defended Dave for months after the first debacle, even continuing to refer potential customers to Bavarian Solutions. I even went ahead and paid Dave the final completion payment before confirming that the motor ran and made power on the dyno--what a mistake that was. This after Dave persuaded me not to use VAC motorsports for the build because, in his own words, "he liked me too much to let VAC build my motor" and because he could build it better and for less money. In short, I was the perfect customer, even after Dave breached the contract, meeting neither the timing nor the quality and performance requirements of the contract. Admittedly, I've been a bit pissed off recently, and I do in fact blame Dave Vilanova. In no event does it constitute compliance with a contract to take the customer's money and yet still fail to deliver an engine that is fit for the particular purpose for which it was constructed.

    Finally, my real name is Peter S. Partee, Sr., and I am a partner with Hunton & Williams LLP in New York. My phone number is 212-309-1056. My address is 200 Park Avenue, 53rd floor. If any of you critics of my wife or my life have what it takes to do so and want to debate any of this in person, feel free to call and set up a time to do so. I've never been afraid of debate, especially when I think I'm right.

    Best,

    Peter

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