Close

Page 2 of 17 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 402
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Venice CA
    Posts
    654
    Rep Points
    568.9
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    So lemme get this straight...they built it, it popped on startup and they refuse to honor the work, short of taking it apart and finding what happened?

    A litte OT but here's a story.. I had a customer with an 89 turbo 911 at my former shop. We built him a nice engine, Haltech and all, car made 600 in change on a fuel injection conversion. He had the car for about a month before he melted the #5 piston. So we took it back and rebuilt it free of charge. Then we took the car out for a test run and a tune and after 2 pulls the car blew the piston again.

    Long story short we found out the waste gate wasnt sufficient for boost control at high speeds and psi, and it was creeping to 20psi without us catching it (the dyno wouldn't show it but real world testing did oddly enough). So we rebuilt the motor again and the customer only paid for a new waste gate and some hours for tuning.
    This is how these situations should be handled.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,350
    Rep Points
    2,779.7
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    This is how these situations should be handled.
    I think the only way we actually covered it was due to the fact his initial build topped 32k. A lot of time and labor involved, I had 50 hours into doing the Haltech setup alone...but it was very neat and properly done.

    The downtime for rebuilding the engine was about 2 days from start to finish. My boss and I would drop it out and have the engine in pieces before lunchtime. But maybe BS doesn't have that kind of time to lose/afford? I don't know much about them so I will sit back and see where it goes.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,481
    Rep Points
    32,155.2
    Mentioned
    2109 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    What if , as already mentioned, if it was a failed part that the engine builder installed? Even if it is the 2nd time around for the engine, still, allow Bav. Solutions the opportunity to inspect first.
    To be honest, I would not allow an engine builder whom I believed to cause two failures to tear down the engine to see the reason for the failure. The reason being, I would feel that if they discovered it was their fault they would cover it up or remove the evidence so that the internet would not lay blame on them. The thread was already locked which leads me to believe they do not want discussion on this taking place so I would want a neutral third party to disassemble.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    5,173
    Rep Points
    526.1
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    First of all, those engine pictures are awesome. I love the resolution and quality. I have a Nikon D200 and would love to find out the lens used. Would love to see pictures like that of my aftercooler/intake manifold build. Click here to enlarge What I don't understand is why/when the M5 was being tuned, the tuning was not stopped right away after a preoblem was noticed. I am in a similar situation in that I had Rebello Racing build my engine, had A1 Imports install the engine and now RMS installing aftercooler. I have not decided exactly yet on the tuning, either Alpha-N or WAR chip. My point is, when it is not one shop that does everything from engine build to tuning, it is hard to lay blame. Is it the engine builder or the tuning? And Bavarin Solutions did offer to tear down the engine again. Why would they not be given the chance? What if , as already mentioned, if it was a failed part that the engine builder installed? Even if it is the 2nd time around for the engine, still, allow Bav. Solutions the opportunity to inspect first. I'm just sayin. And Peter says he is a Manhatten attorney. Is that any different than a Brooklyn attorney? Click here to enlarge
    I agree. He should allow Bav Sol the chance to inspect the motor. It isn't everyday a s62 gets built for FI. Many new parts are made, and he is taking the chance by wanting to do what he is doing.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,350
    Rep Points
    2,779.7
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    To be honest, I would not allow an engine builder whom I believed to cause two failures to tear down the engine to see the reason for the failure. The reason being, I would feel that if they discovered it was their fault they would cover it up or remove the evidence so that the internet would not lay blame on them. The thread was already locked which leads me to believe they do not want discussion on this taking place so I would want a neutral third party to disassemble.

    I can vouch for this. We had some incidences where an incorrectly gapped crank trigger would make an engine run like crap all weekend for racing, customer would be furious because we couldn't figure it out.

    We would tell him it was something else, in order to save our asses. We are only human and in the heat of racing the method of checking things sometimes gets thrown to the wind....but this gets fed to the normal human population of forum members who know nothing about building an engine and all this bull$#@! discussion starts and ruins the shop reputation for life.

    From what I know about BS, it seems they are good people, part of me says they would be honest about finding out what did it, but part of me says have a 3rd party shop disassemble it.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    284
    Rep Points
    0.8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    This is horrible for everyone.

    What i particularly didnt like is the fact that the first failure was said to be due to the vanos. I dont know if it was inconclusive but either way Bav Sol didnt build the vanos but they still took it upon themselves to try and get it right on there own tab. Bav Sol could have easily said talk to (whoever) built the vanos and left it at that. Now it happens again and Bav Sol said not this time so all of a sudden the owner comes online and says, hey watch out for Bav Sol. Basically saying Bav Sol is a $#@! company taxing peoples money and not delivering. Then you got a bunch of internet nutt hoppers saying- i never thought Bav Sol would act like this. They clearly dont understand the business.

    I dont know Peter and never dealt with Bav Sol but i have been in this business a long time on a small scale. I dont believe in this behavior, especially before the problem have even been sought yet.

    The owner/lawyer seems to think he has this case in the bag but Bav Sol has a very good record so this may not be the "case". I dont know the obligations of the contract but i can guess Bav Sol does not cover the vanos build and tune which is what both failures point to. i have my assumption as to what caused the failure but i'll keep that to myself.

    I hope they can come to an agreement. Peter spent a lot of money and Bav Sol seems to be a very competent company.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    5,173
    Rep Points
    526.1
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    I can vouch for this. We had some incidences where an incorrectly gapped crank trigger would make an engine run like crap all weekend for racing, customer would be furious because we couldn't figure it out.

    We would tell him it was something else, in order to save our asses. We are only human and in the heat of racing the method of checking things sometimes gets thrown to the wind....but this gets fed to the normal human population of forum members who know nothing about building an engine and all this bull$#@! discussion starts and ruins the shop reputation for life.

    From what I know about BS, it seems they are good people, part of me says they would be honest about finding out what did it, but part of me says have a 3rd party shop disassemble it.
    Matt pm me the Addy for the shop you are at. I would like to stop by on friday.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,481
    Rep Points
    32,155.2
    Mentioned
    2109 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lughed Click here to enlarge
    What i particularly didnt like is the fact that the first failure was said to be due to the vanos.
    How was the VANOS said to cause the engine failure? If Bav Sol didn't build the VANOS or have anything to do with it why did they rebuild the motor?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,481
    Rep Points
    32,155.2
    Mentioned
    2109 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    Matt pm me the Addy for the shop you are at. I would like to stop by on friday.
    Just click on his banner or the logo in the forum index, takes you to his site.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    5,173
    Rep Points
    526.1
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Just click on his banner or the logo in the forum index, takes you to his site.
    We are local. A pm with an addy, and the best direction to get there with out hitting massive traffic is better I believe.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,481
    Rep Points
    32,155.2
    Mentioned
    2109 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    We are local. A pm with an addy, and the best direction to get there with out hitting massive traffic is better I believe.
    Heh, well yes, but until that pm arrives you could probably try finding the address yourself and using maps.yahoo.com as well.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,350
    Rep Points
    2,779.7
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How was the VANOS said to cause the engine failure? If Bav Sol didn't build the VANOS or have anything to do with it why did they rebuild the motor?
    Well from what I read they used custom spec cams, that were more aggressive than the Schrick cams out on the market.

    Playing with Vanos can be a game of Russian Roulette. Especially when you start to narrow the range down where you can possibly make an error. When I did a timing chain and guides on an M62, it took me a week to get the right bank intake cam to lineup right, as on every cold start it would throw a CEL for the left and right cam sensors being out of sync. And this was on a factory cam.

    The gears are not supposed to move on their own inwards,but from what I read one cam within 90 degrees of rotation would go full retard, and contacted the piston. This is why it ran ok for a bit, then once the Vanos primed up it tried to move the cam more and bang.

    On a normal cam you could have probably gotten away with just taking it apart and retiming it. However with such a large cam the margin for error is probably 0....one tooth off could spell disaster.

    I helped build one S50, and the noises it made on startup before the Vanos had full oil pressure made me $#@! my pants, I kid you not. I thought it was gonna spit a cam out of the valve cover at my head.

    Those two were the only ones I've messed with. The S50 went on to make 330chp, and the E38 is still running with almost 300k on the clock. However I will save that work for another shop that is competent, for the time being I need to read up a lot on it as I am not confident in my own abilities to touch it.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,481
    Rep Points
    32,155.2
    Mentioned
    2109 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    The gears are not supposed to move on their own inwards,but from what I read one cam within 90 degrees of rotation would go full retard, and contacted the piston. This is why it ran ok for a bit, then once the Vanos primed up it tried to move the cam more and bang.
    Ok, so why was this not corrected on the second rebuild? Why not just go to different cams if this was not working?

    Plus, couldn't you hear that something was wrong immediately? Why not shut it down then.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    839
    Rep Points
    771.6
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok, so why was this not corrected on the second rebuild? Why not just go to different cams if this was not working?

    Plus, couldn't you hear that something was wrong immediately? Why not shut it down then.
    That is what I said already. If, when tunng, you can clearly hear something is wrong, shut the MoFo down.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,481
    Rep Points
    32,155.2
    Mentioned
    2109 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    That is what I said already. If, when tunng, you can clearly hear something is wrong, shut the MoFo down.
    You are wise.

    I just want to know if it was the same problem both times. Still tough to believe it happened twice...

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    284
    Rep Points
    0.8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How was the VANOS said to cause the engine failure? If Bav Sol didn't build the VANOS or have anything to do with it why did they rebuild the motor?
    This is what was thought to cause the first failure. Its in the M5Board thread. I followed this build on M5Board after they closed the first thread on BFC. The vanos was built by "Dr. Vanos" both times but Bav Sol took the tab of the rebuild. Sounds stand up-ish to me. That is why i dont know why the owner would come online and try to slay Bav Sol with the watch out comments.

    You all can read it because i dont want to be the one spreading the bad word. But there are some other interesting findings that have not been mentioned. Just know that some others and I had an interesting "assumption" but were shot down for our comments Click here to enlarge but now seems more of a chance that it could have been the case.

    The court thing will play itself out but i would like to know what happened to this motor as this is the direction i am heading in and i would like to know if my hunch was correct.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,481
    Rep Points
    32,155.2
    Mentioned
    2109 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lughed Click here to enlarge
    You all can read it because i dont want to be the one spreading the bad word. But there are some other interesting findings that have not been mentioned. Just know that some others and I had an interesting "assumption" but were shot down for our comments but now seems more of a chance that it could have been the case.
    What is the assumption?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lughed Click here to enlarge
    This is what was thought to cause the first failure. Its in the M5Board thread. I followed this build on M5Board after they closed the first thread on BFC. The vanos was built by "Dr. Vanos" both times but Bav Sol took the tab of the rebuild. Sounds stand up-ish to me. That is why i dont know why the owner would come online and try to slay Bav Sol with the watch out comments.
    Who is Dr. Vanos and why was the Vanos handled separately from BavSol? If this was what caused the failure why did BavSol not give him the bill? I agree, nice for BavSol to step up but shouldn't it have been the Dr. Vanos fellow who stepped up?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,350
    Rep Points
    2,779.7
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Yes Reputation No
    DR Vanos is a guy who rebuilds Vanos units, instead of you spending a lot of money on a factory oem unit he provides you with a refurbished one in exchange for your core. I think he does little things like polish the gears and what not as well.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,350
    Rep Points
    2,779.7
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok, so why was this not corrected on the second rebuild? Why not just go to different cams if this was not working?

    Plus, couldn't you hear that something was wrong immediately? Why not shut it down then.
    Because these cams were supposedly better than anything offered on the market. Also I don't think the cams were the issue, unless he installed the exhaust cams on the wrong banks? I don't know if that even makes a difference (just taking guesses here, prolly shouldn't be doing that)

    As far as the Mr.X deal, maybe while he was tuning it popped the piston and busted the other one simultaneously, I'm pretty sure he knows a lot better than to push a hurt motor on through the dyno like that.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    616
    Rep Points
    629.9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    7


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Peter posted an update this afternoon that seems to explain the situation more clearly:

    There are plenty of updates in a separate thread over there and in this one if you slug through it all. Bavarian Solutions was contractually obligated to deliver a motor that at the very, very least was capable of making it through an ordinary tuning process. They breached that obligation on two separate occasions. The second time around, there was no opportunity for real tuning, as the problems began to surface before we could establish a baseline on the dyno. At the time failure occurred, ignition had not been advanced, AFRs were nice and rich, and nothing had been done tuning-wise that would in any way pose a risk to the engine. We just hadn't even gotten that far before the problems arose.

    Forensic evidence corroborating my position is being catalogued and preserved by the experts. I will tell the entire ugly story in due time, in the lawsuit. In the meantime, I am doing my best to formulate an alternative plan for a powerplant for my Beast.

    --Peter

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,481
    Rep Points
    32,155.2
    Mentioned
    2109 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    ^ Interesting. That 2JZ option sure looks pretty good right now Click here to enlarge

    I'm still surprised we don't know what the failure was but the owner seems to think it isn't Mr. Vanos or anything to do with that and the hardware aspects done by Bavarian Solutions.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    839
    Rep Points
    771.6
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 930chas Click here to enlarge
    Peter posted an update this afternoon that seems to explain the situation more clearly:

    There are plenty of updates in a separate thread over there and in this one if you slug through it all. Bavarian Solutions was contractually obligated to deliver a motor that at the very, very least was capable of making it through an ordinary tuning process. They breached that obligation on two separate occasions. The second time around, there was no opportunity for real tuning, as the problems began to surface before we could establish a baseline on the dyno. At the time failure occurred, ignition had not been advanced, AFRs were nice and rich, and nothing had been done tuning-wise that would in any way pose a risk to the engine. We just hadn't even gotten that far before the problems arose.

    Forensic evidence corroborating my position is being catalogued and preserved by the experts. I will tell the entire ugly story in due time, in the lawsuit. In the meantime, I am doing my best to formulate an alternative plan for a powerplant for my Beast.

    --Peter
    In all due respect to Peter, I would like to hear Bavarian Solutions side/point of view also before we make more "assumptions".

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,481
    Rep Points
    32,155.2
    Mentioned
    2109 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    In all due respect to Peter, I would like to hear Bavarian Solutions side/point of view also before we make more "assumptions".
    Same here, but they haven't really said anything other than they were willing to disassemble and find the point of failure, right?

    Plus, they already rebuilt it once...

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    58
    Rep Points
    58.6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 930chas Click here to enlarge
    Peter posted an update this afternoon that seems to explain the situation more clearly:

    There are plenty of updates in a separate thread over there and in this one if you slug through it all. Bavarian Solutions was contractually obligated to deliver a motor that at the very, very least was capable of making it through an ordinary tuning process. They breached that obligation on two separate occasions. The second time around, there was no opportunity for real tuning, as the problems began to surface before we could establish a baseline on the dyno. At the time failure occurred, ignition had not been advanced, AFRs were nice and rich, and nothing had been done tuning-wise that would in any way pose a risk to the engine. We just hadn't even gotten that far before the problems arose.

    Forensic evidence corroborating my position is being catalogued and preserved by the experts. I will tell the entire ugly story in due time, in the lawsuit. In the meantime, I am doing my best to formulate an alternative plan for a powerplant for my Beast.

    --Peter
    That post didn't clear anything up for me (none of my questions were answered either). Do we really know what killed the first motor for sure? Pistons hitting the valves due to the VANOS? The specifics are being quelled; that's all I'm saying.
    Last edited by Bimmerbear; 02-17-2011 at 02:37 PM.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    616
    Rep Points
    629.9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    7


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bimmerbear Click here to enlarge
    That post didn't clear anything up for me (none of my questions were answered either). Do we really know what killed the first motor for sure? Pistons hitting the valves due to the VANOS? The specifics are being quelled; that's all I'm saying.
    He removed the vanos so doubt that was a cause. His post mainly clears up any question of it being a tune caused issue.

Page 2 of 17 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •