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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    We're starting down the possibility rabbit-hole here, but assuming the oscillations are a wastegate harmonic issue, the most likely cause is a change from something like the 0.4bar (5.8psi) wastegate spring (adjusted to a smooth 6.5-7psi via well-tuned boost control solenoid) to the 0.5bar (7.25psi) wastegate spring -- undamped by any boost control solenoid.
    Well, it can go pretty deep but this is a very interesting topic. I don't know if we could speak as freely about this anywhere else.

    Assuming for a moment you are correct about the wastegate spring, what would it take to resolve it and why would it not be an area of priority especially over, what, 18+ months?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Assuming for a moment you are correct about the wastegate spring, what would it take to resolve it
    Easiest way would be to specify different wastegate springs for stage 2.5 vs 1-2. That kind of brings up a large underlying issue -- the popularity of stage 2.5 and HPF's insistence on keeping the same components as stage 1-2. 6-13psi is worlds different from 16-23psi -- the VE of the low-compression engine has changed dramatically, the fuel needs are different, the demands on the turbo, wastegate, and IC are different. If you go back to this thread HPF shows the billet turbo makes slightly more power at slightly less boost -- clearly well suited for the 2.5, yet because it didn't show significant gains for the low boost stage 1-2 HPF decided not to use it.

    BTW, here is an interesting quote from that last thread illustrating the true focus of HPF circa 10/09:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HPF Chris
    I'm also hoping to see the peak horsepower number for the pump gas map go up. We'll see.

    Chris.

    and why would it not be an area of priority especially over, what, 18+ months?
    Probably because no one has mentioned it. Again those oscillations (if truly caused by wastegate harmonics) aren't a huge deal. But they are unsightly, unrefined, and easily fixed with a little thought and effort.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    Probably because no one has mentioned it. Again those oscillations (if truly caused by wastegate harmonics) aren't a huge deal. But they are unsightly, unrefined, and easily fixed with a little thought and effort.
    Agreed, not a huge issue but it sure doesn't look pretty and a top notch operation should be top notch in all aspects in my opinion.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    Easiest way would be to specify different wastegate springs for stage 2.5 vs 1-2. That kind of brings up a large underlying issue -- the popularity of stage 2.5 and HPF's insistence on keeping the same components as stage 1-2. 6-13psi is worlds different from 16-23psi -- the VE of the low-compression engine has changed dramatically, the fuel needs are different, the demands on the turbo, wastegate, and IC are different. If you go back to this thread HPF shows the billet turbo makes slightly more power at slightly less boost -- clearly well suited for the 2.5, yet because it didn't show significant gains for the low boost stage 1-2 HPF decided not to use it.
    What is the reason HPF insists on the same components for 1 and 2? To keep their costs down? Seems only logical to make the spring change, should not really affect the cost.

    The part about the turbo is interesting, I would prefer the billet turbo which makes more power at less boost (more efficient) which yes, it is well suited for the 2.5. I see no reason why a customer could not state that they want this turbo used with their 2.5 instead of the turbo used for 1 and 2.

  4. #29
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    that was an interesting read, any recent failures?
    Click here to enlarge

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yukohama Click here to enlarge
    that was an interesting read, any recent failures?
    Yes, Scotts as mentioned and there are others I believe. One of the Stage 3's has recently gone in unless I am mistaken.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What is the reason HPF insists on the same components for 1 and 2? To keep their costs down? Seems only logical to make the spring change, should not really affect the cost.
    Using the same components definitely help keeps costs down -- both in terms of getting a better discount (90 cast 67s vs 65cast 67s & 25 billet 67s), and in terms of not tying up as much money in inventory by stocking variations. Even the simple wastegate spring change increases the possibility of the shipping department making an error and sending a stage 1-2 owner a stock-engine popping 15psi spring meant for a built engine...

    The question is whether HPF owners pay enough of a premium to warrant the additional cost. I think so, but I definitely don't have anywhere near Chris's business sense.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    Even the simple wastegate spring change increases the possibility of the shipping department making an error and sending a stage 1-2 owner a stock-engine popping 15psi spring meant for a built engine...
    This is something minor, there should not be shipping errors to begin with and they manage just fine with the current stages they have so not a primary concern. The primary concern is addressing it properly I would think.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    The question is whether HPF owners pay enough of a premium to warrant the additional cost. I think so, but I definitely don't have anywhere near Chris's business sense.
    With what I have seen some of these builds total, I think there is no question HPF owners pay enough of a premium to ensure the kit is perfect in all aspects. With some of these guys paying $40k+ bills, yes, the additional cost to HPF is warranted without a doubt.

  8. #33
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    Headstuds stretched on my car. Head lifted then it was pretty much downhill after that.
    $#@! happens when you MOD. I've daliy driven my car since 12k she had 79k when this happened. FI since 50k. I had a AA kit then HPF Stg2 in that time.

    Pretty much problem free till then. I had a
    good run till something bad happened.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
    happens when you MOD. I've daliy driven my car since 12k she had 79k when this happened. FI since 50k. I had a AA kit then HPF Stg2 in that time.
    That's pretty good and yes, things do happen.

    Did you not get the new headstuds in time?

    What was the mileage on the HPF vs. AA?

  10. #35
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    Na my stock motor died July 4th on 95. $#@! when bad quick. One minute cruising next KABOOM smoke everywhere. Don't remember Exact mileage for each kit but my guess would
    be outta that 30k. AA kit 20k HPF 10k. Around that.

  11. #36
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    My motor was toast in blink of a eye.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
    My motor was toast in blink of a eye.
    What was your failure attributed to again?

  13. #38
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    Headstuds strecthing which lead to blown headgasket,cracked block and bent rod. Whole bunch of no good. That and 80k of daliy driving and a constant beating. Lol.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
    Headstuds stretched on my car. Head lifted then it was pretty much downhill after that.
    $#@! happens when you MOD. I've daliy driven my car since 12k she had 79k when this happened. FI since 50k. I had a AA kit then HPF Stg2 in that time.

    Pretty much problem free till then. I had a
    good run till something bad happened.

    So, you had the pre-L19 studs?

  15. #40
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    stage 1/2 use stock studs

  16. #41
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    Stock studs. I'm pretty sure because of what happened to me hpf is suggesting The L19 for all kits.
    Just to be safe.

  17. #42
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    Oh, you had Stage 2. My comprehension sucks.

    Just curious, did you have to pay for the repair?

    Did you upgrade to 2.5 or 3?

  18. #43
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    I paid for parts. No labor and hpf payed shipping home. They wouldve replaced my stock engine free or upgrade me to 2.5 just pay for some stuff and we split cost of a new block.

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    2.5. That power is good enough for me. My friend has a stage 3. So maybe one day I'll upgrade but for now I got other stuff to upgrade/replace. I got enough power. 560-689rwhp. Depending on setting.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
    I paid for parts. No labor and hpf payed shipping home. They wouldve replaced my stock engine free or upgrade me to 2.5 just pay for some stuff and we split cost of a new block.
    I think this is how they basically go about resolving issues for all previous customers which is what leads me to believe Scott is being taken care of as well.

  21. #46
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    Edit: Previously answered.

    Seems like a reasonable deal. You paid for parts and half shipping.

    It's hard to believe there will never be any problems with any of these kits/installs. It seems HPF is learning from some of these problems and making necessary changes and reconciling when needed. I suppose that's all you can ask.

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stahlgrau Click here to enlarge
    It's hard to believe there will never be any problems with any of these kits/installs. It seems HPF is learning from some of these problems and making necessary changes and reconciling when needed. I suppose that's all you can ask.
    True, no one expects them to be perfect.

    The reason they skirt much of the negative press that VF got hit with is they handle it all the right way.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    True, no one expects them to be perfect.

    The reason they skirt much of the negative press that VF got hit with is they handle it all the right way.

    I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe there's more than 80 HPF kits out there. Some have pretty extensive mileage on them. It seems there's a pretty small number of kits that have had any major failures. Then again, all of these people aren't posting on message boards.

    Just hope my car is problem free for 3 weeks in May. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I do find it a bit odd that people piled up so hard on VF yet no one says anything about HPF.
    I think the big issue was how VF handled the blown motors, not that they blew up. HPF has been pretty up front about R&D flaws, even offering customers several free upgrades. I think they are evolving and learning from mistakes.

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    I think the big issue was how VF handled the blown motors, not that they blew up. HPF has been pretty up front about R&D flaws, even offering customers several free upgrades. I think they are evolving and learning from mistakes.
    Very true.

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