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  1. #1
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    BMS JB4 E85 flex fuel development

    What's interesting is that this will be rolled out across all JB4 ranges so it really doesn't matter what motor you have with the JB4 you will be able to do E85 flex-fuel it looks like:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMS
    Been spending the last few days working on improving JB4 E85 integration, and figured it's time for a little update on short and longer term updates. Although this post is specifically for N54 applications similar changes will be made across all JB4 platforms.

    1) Added dedicated E85 parameter to interface. It's finally time for E85 to have a permanent home on the interface and datalogs which will become the basis for many E85 integration features to come. We've added it to the windows software and Donnie will be making similar changes to JB4 Mobile shortly. This new field will only fill in when using updated JB4 firmware.

    If equipped with a hard wired flex fuel sensor then this field will show the actual reading off the sensor. e.g. true ethanol mixture.

    If not equipped with a hard wired flex fuel sensor this field will show the output from our work in progress virtual flex fuel sensor.

    Calculated torque is being returned to "DutyC" in the interface.

    2) Port injection integration. We've reworked the JB4 port injection mapping so that it can now take in to account your ethanol mixture automatically. We've enabled it for those running a hard-wired sensor, but not quite ready to enable it for virtual sensor readings, since there is still some work to go on that development. But the logic is all in place to enable that as soon as we're ready. The benefit here is to eliminate users having to fiddle with port injection volume settings when making fuel mixture changes.

    3) We're improving how the JB4 manipulates it's boost and timing profile based on varying ethanol mixtures. Expect to hear more on that in the coming weeks.

    4) Taking advantage of new flashing developments. Inspired by MHD hijacking a voltage in to the DME we've learned how to hijack the DME DTML voltage input and then monitor it back out on CANbus using PID 0x5A, 0x17.

    To confirm the voltage input works I patched the input wire over to the gas pedal as shown below. Worth noting the Fuel-IT analyzer uses a simple voltage formula like 0-0.1v = 0% E85 and .1v - 5v = 0-100% E85, which I expect will be compatible with any flash DME flex fuel sensor voltage input logic released.
    Click here to enlarge


    This approach can be used to have the DME read the voltage of any ethanol analyzer or JB4 output, and when combined with MHD development rumored to be in the works for table blending based on a voltage input, would allow us to incrementally improve our JB4 back end flash maps.

    On BimmerBoost I was asked how the new MHD flex fuel flash logic might apply to what we're doing with the JB4 back end flash maps:

    The JB4 offers support for a hardwired ethanol sensor. In fact there are maybe 500 out in use. In addition we're developing a virtual sensor so the JB4 can get close on measuring ethanol mixture without the extra cost/headache of installing a sensor. We're also improving our flex fuel tuning as demand is heating up these days for it. I spent the last few hrs working on autoscaling JB4 port injection mapping as a function of a hardwired or virtual flex fuel sensor for example.

    What is new is that MHD is releasing some new tables that on the flash end allow blending of a fuel scalar table, timing table, load table, etc, based on a voltage input. They were telling me the only way to get a voltage input in to the DME would be via their flex fuel hardware. Of course this made no sense to me and as you can see in my video above we have a voltage input in to the DTML parameter. There are other pins that can be used also like MAP IAT circuit, etc.

    How it goes from here is unknown and really up to how MHD wants to release their new tables. My suggestion is they offer them as a pay per use option. Like MBOOST. So someone pays $25 or whatever to unlock the function when loading a MHD file or back end flash file. If they do it that way then we can add those tables to our JB4 BEF for interested customers to further improve their flex fuel tuning.

    The more flex fuel options, the better, right?

  2. #2
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    Thanks, forgot to post this here. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  3. #3
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    Dont European cars lack dtml? What will that mean with the above?
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.75@127 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, fuel-it stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

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    Means you can do it without any compromises. On USA spec cars you will loose DTML control. Meaning strictly for race car use only.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Terry, can you elaborate a bit on both the physical and virtual flex fuel sensor. I understand that using MHD, I can flash either a flash only tune for a specific fuel, and it will have a timing map for that fuel. Or, I can flash a JB4 BEF for that particular fuel, and it would have the timing map for said fuel. In that instance, the different maps from the JB4 are only for boost control, correct? I may have been reading wrong, but I see that mentioned often.

    With your flex fuel sensors, be it virtual or physical, how/do you modify the timing maps for the varying fuel? Does the JB4 intercept and modify the ignition timing, or does it remain static from the BEF values?

  6. #6
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
    Terry, can you elaborate a bit on both the physical and virtual flex fuel sensor. I understand that using MHD, I can flash either a flash only tune for a specific fuel, and it will have a timing map for that fuel. Or, I can flash a JB4 BEF for that particular fuel, and it would have the timing map for said fuel. In that instance, the different maps from the JB4 are only for boost control, correct? I may have been reading wrong, but I see that mentioned often.

    With your flex fuel sensors, be it virtual or physical, how/do you modify the timing maps for the varying fuel? Does the JB4 intercept and modify the ignition timing, or does it remain static from the BEF values?
    The way it works currently is that the JB4 sets the boost profile, the BEF is mapped out on AFR and timing as a function of load, and load is varied back to the DME to tie it all together. The JB4 makes minor fuel trim and AFR target adjustments to the base map as needed. The catch is the BEF loaded has to be "in the ballpark" for what mixture you want to run. Thus the 3 maps we currently have for pump, lighter mixtures, and heavier mixtures.

    There are some improvements under development. I'd like to be able to take advantage of a new voltage input in to the DME with additional table blending where we could do some pretty nifty things with the JB4 and BEF. Including a unified BEF that works for all fuels. But as I stated that is going to be up to MHD. If they make it an option our customers can purchase for a small fee then we'll post maps with performance and features that encourage our JB4 E85 customers to purchase that MHD flash time option. If they try to make it fully closed (e.g. require buying 3rd party hardware) then we have some alternatives concepts we'll work on and ultimately promote. We will wait to see how MHD decides to handle that end before making any final decisions on this end.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 04-21-2017 at 12:04 AM.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  7. #7
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    Don't call me an idiot but what's DTML? And don't call me Shirley either....

  8. #8
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    Exciting stuff!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nikitino25 Click here to enlarge
    Don't call me an idiot but what's DTML? And don't call me Shirley either....

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nikitino25 Click here to enlarge
    Don't call me an idiot but what's DTML? And don't call me Shirley either....
    Well Shirley...
    I was wondering the same thing and apparently A DMTL is a diagnostic module. its designed to check for leaks in the emissions system.

    So i think the gist of this is that the guys are using that voltage input to our DMEs and hijacking it to drive flex fuel enrichment tables.

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    Dmtl is a US requirement. Here in Australia we don't have it.

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    We would likely have to flash our dmes to us spec first then I'd imagine

  13. #13
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Aus335iGuy Click here to enlarge
    We would likely have to flash our dmes to us spec first then I'd imagine
    There might be some bytes to change in your back end flash, we'd have to look in to it. There are other options for table blending inputs too depending on what flexibility MHD decides to offer on it.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  14. #14
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    Adding in new interface settings for all the various ethanol related setup functions. There are a lot of bases to cover....

    WMI
    FlexFuel
    WMI + Flex Fuel
    WMI + Port Injection
    Port Injection only
    Port Injection + Flex Fuel
    WMI+FlexFuel+Port Injection

    Then of course the Virtual FlexFuel sensor running in the background providing either a safety system for a hardwired ethanol sensor or a "close enough" ethanol content reading.

    With all this the extra DME voltage input is actually going to come in very handy here when running multiple items like PI + WMI or WMI + FlexFuel....Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 04-23-2017 at 03:06 PM.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    great info thank you

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    Looks good Terry.

  17. #17
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Adding in new interface settings for all the various ethanol related setup functions. There are a lot of bases to cover....

    WMI
    FlexFuel
    WMI + Flex Fuel
    WMI + Port Injection
    Port Injection only
    Port Injection + Flex Fuel
    WMI+FlexFuel+Port Injection

    Then of course the Virtual FlexFuel sensor running in the background providing either a safety system for a hardwired ethanol sensor or a "close enough" ethanol content reading.

    With all this the extra DME voltage input is actually going to come in very handy here when running multiple items like PI + WMI or WMI + FlexFuel....http://www.n54tech.com/forums/images...s/drinking.gif

    http://www.audiboost.com/images/impo...c1d14929-1.jpg
    and throttle body injection TBI, I suppose.
    One more acronym for the list. Click here to enlarge
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.75@127 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, fuel-it stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

  18. #18
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    Terry,

    With the new progressive flow changes you've made with meth injection, would you be able to integrate that type of progressive control similar to how the jb4 controls port injection? Instead of us manually having to put the values in under Fuel Bias, could it be dynamic based on trims/boost/timing? Or integrate the progressive meth + flex fuel stuff in with the map blending for those of us who use Methanol for fuel. For example, using that DME voltage input to monitor flow from the meth pump to automatically blend timing/fuel maps when it sees meth beginning to flow? That would be an awesome feature!

    Duane
    08 AW E92 XI 6MT
    VTT GCs + VTT Inlets and Outlet + Fuel-it Bucketless + TorqByte CM5-LT Meth Controller + TwistedTuning Meth Plate / Aquamist 200cc Nozzles (E42 + 1550cc Meth) + BMS CP + VRSF DPs + 550i Clutch/MFactory SMFW

  19. #19
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    Yes, we could automate it. But with WMI generally the nozzles are so small relative to the octane/fuel demand you wind up running 100% most of the time. Those who need more volume go to port injection meth, using traditional fuel injectors, which the JB4 maps out like normal port injection only with an extra output separately running the WMI pump under boost.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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