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  1. #51
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    Nice!
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  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bradsm87 Click here to enlarge
    They're not even sharing advice or answering tuning questions that might threaten their OTS maps, let alone release more maps. I've emailed them and also offered to get a donation fund together for more maps. They're standing firm.

    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...125073&page=95
    man that's made me a fair bit less excited about it... i don't see the reason to hide discovered tables, for exactly the reasons you've mentioned...

    may as well not release the ability to make your own maps at all if they're not going to release tables.

    It's leaving a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth, like some of the scummy tactics used on other platforms to remain anti-competitive, like VAG.
    boop

  3. #53
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    There's no reason we can't work on opening things up on our own. Guys already are from what I understand.

  4. #54
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    So what I've read seems to indicate that the pressure regulators in the mechatronics units in the 6HP21 max out at 4.6 Bar which is kind of confusing/contradictory because stock HS 1>2 in common maps upshift targets 5.6 bar and 3>4 is 5.15 bar Click here to enlarge

    So Alpina M mode 3>4 already maxes out this 4.6 bar and the 1>2 isn't far behind at 4.1. Probably only a small reduction in the timespan possible for the 3>4 shift Click here to enlarge If we're already well and truly maxing the shift pressures by 630nm, there is really no advantage that I can see by increasing the torque limiter on an Alpina flash, other than just for convenience as not to have to mess with the DME flash to get below the limiter.

    It would be so damn cool to put in higher max pressure solenoids then find and update the solenoid scaling to suit in the TCU.

    I can't help but to dream about what we could acheive together if xHP worked with the community with tuning discussions Click here to enlarge

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bradsm87 Click here to enlarge
    One of the best things to come out of the ability to flash custom files to the TCU is that we finally don't have to live with the Alpina B3 D mode shift points. To make the Alpina shift points a little more bearable, a lot of us dulled down our accelerator pedal mapping so that you needed a lot more accelerator pedal to get the same output. It helped with the shift points but made the car feel a little dull and unresponsive. Now we can fix the shift points in the TCU and bring back a little more exciting throttle mapping in the DME!

    I've boosted the throttle mapping across the board to make it feel snappier plus added more below 2500rpm for this reason:

    Accelerator pedal mapping is tied to the load target. Because my load target is considerably lower at 1500rpm than it is at 2500rpm, I can now give the pedal mapping a boost below 2500rpm to counteract the lower load target and give more consistent part-throttle output at all RPM, vastly improving the low RPM throttle feeling.
    So you could technically use load per gear via MHD and avoid the "load jump" on AT's now?

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    So is there a gear by RPM wide open throttle shift table in this thing? e.g. can you make your automatic shift at 5600rpm or 7300rpm on its own?
    if you don't want your trans to auto-upshift, just raise output shaft speed values above the actual speed of shaft at say 7500 rpm (engine speed), for each gear, and your trans will never auto-upshift (threshold never reached).

  7. #57
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    do you mean the alpina B3 transmission have stronger pressure regulators than 135i/335i ones ?
    is it easy to swap ?

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bradsm87 Click here to enlarge
    It would be so damn cool to put in higher max pressure solenoids then find and update the solenoid scaling to suit in the TCU.
    Click here to enlarge

    Swapping solenoids seems fairly simple, I mean they are right there when dropping pan lol. Wonder if that would give the stock AT a bit more tq strenff before it gives out.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    man that's made me a fair bit less excited about it... i don't see the reason to hide discovered tables, for exactly the reasons you've mentioned...

    may as well not release the ability to make your own maps at all if they're not going to release tables.

    It's leaving a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth, like some of the scummy tactics used on other platforms to remain anti-competitive, like VAG.
    Agreed
    2010 N54 - DocRace - Motiv - CKI - TCKR - Volk - ER - CSF - Vorsteiner

    Click here to enlarge

  9. #59
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    yo @mfish you want to join in on a group possibly opening up this TCU flashing to the masses?

    If certain people aren't willing to help so what? This group never ceases to amaze on accomplishing the impossible.

  10. #60
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    yo @mfish you want to join in on a group possibly opening up this TCU flashing to the masses?

    If certain people aren't willing to help so what? This group never ceases to amaze on accomplishing the impossible.
    Hey @Sticky. I'm In! I appreciate the invite. Within reason I'm willing test different things and report back.
    2009 335i AT xdrive E90 Sedan
    Alpina Trans Flash
    BQ Tuning Custom 93 Octane Tune
    FBO + Inlets

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mfish Click here to enlarge
    Hey @Sticky. I'm In! I appreciate the invite. Within reason I'm willing test different things and report back.
    Good. Let's see what we can come up with.

  12. #62
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    I think I'll just settle for a conservative TCU flash until we know more and have more tables. Not knowing what the maximum acheivable shift pressure for each gear is the biggest limitation at the moment and without logging, it's too hard to tell the shift pressure limits just by making changes and trying to feel it.

    I really don't think the Alpina B3 flash's 630-ish nm torque limit is an issue at the moment. When you linearise the stock shift pressure tables and you're already reaching a suspected shift pressure limitation by about 510nm, having a 630nm torque limit will not hold you back.

    I'll post links to all the technical documents I can find and study them to try and work out which solenoids are used for which shifts. Half of the solenoids have a hard 4.6 bar limit. The other ones could theoretically go a little further but it would surprise me if BMW use higher values than the rating of the solenoids, which brings the scaling in the XDF in to question.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    yo @mfish you want to join in on a group possibly opening up this TCU flashing to the masses?

    If certain people aren't willing to help so what? This group never ceases to amaze on accomplishing the impossible.
    I'll be honest. I'm happy with xHP as a flash tool in the same way I'm happy with MHD as a flash tool and I already own both. I'm keen to put all my effort in to helping discover more tables and gather and share tuning information with the community.

    Introducing another TCU flashing product would be cool but I do not have any knowledge whatsoever in how any of that stuff works so my interests lie exclusively in table discovery and tuning.

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by trebila Click here to enlarge
    do you mean the alpina B3 transmission have stronger pressure regulators than 135i/335i ones ?
    is it easy to swap ?
    Nah I don't believe there are any hardware differences.

  15. #65
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    OK here is my grasp of solenoids used for shifts and pressure limitations. If somebody knows otherwise, please correct me.

    - Rising yellow EDS solenoids apply more pressure as more current is applied. It is theoretically possible to apply more current than 4.6bar and get a little more than 4.6bar. Exceeding the rating of the solenoid does not sound like something that BMW would do though.

    - Falling blue EDS solenoids start at 4.6bar when no current is applied. I doubt very, very much that the TCU could apply reverse polarity to theoretically get a little more out of it. I think it's safe to assume that 4.6 bar is the limit for these solenoids.

    Solenoid types used:
    1>2 offgoing - falling
    1>2 oncoming - rising
    2>3 offgoing - rising
    2>3 oncoming - falling
    3>4 offgoing - falling
    3>4 oncoming - falling
    4>5 offgoing - rising
    4>5 oncoming - falling
    5>6 offgoing - falling
    5>6 oncoming - rising

    This is what does not make sense:
    In the stock 335i calibration, offgoing 1>2 commands up to 5.6bar and 3>4 5.15 bar. Also in the Alpina B3 calibration, the 3>4 offgoing commands 5.1bar. These ALL are commands that use falling type solenoids that absolutely max out at 4.6bar! Surely BMW would not put unachievable values in tables!

    Is there a possibility that the conversion formula in the XDF of 0.001*X is incorrect?


    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bradsm87 Click here to enlarge
    OK here is my grasp of solenoids used for shifts and pressure limitations. If somebody knows otherwise, please correct me.

    That info is in this literature Brad, so there might be some other helpful info in here as well.

    http://docdro.id/XQUBsf6

    @Sticky, what is the max pdf attachment size allowed?
    2010 N54 - DocRace - Motiv - CKI - TCKR - Volk - ER - CSF - Vorsteiner

    Click here to enlarge

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by R.G. Click here to enlarge
    That info is in this literature Brad, so there might be some other helpful info in here as well.

    http://docdro.id/XQUBsf6

    @Sticky, what is the max pdf attachment size allowed?
    Thanks. Yeah that's the one I have. I just took screen grabs of those pages. Everything in that doc points to 4.6 bar being the limit, which further leads me to think that the scaling in the XDF has to be wrong.

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bradsm87 Click here to enlarge
    Thanks. Yeah that's the one I have. I just took screen grabs of those pages. Everything in that doc points to 4.6 bar being the limit, which further leads me to think that the scaling in the XDF has to be wrong.
    Got ya. This is the other doc I ran across

    http://docdro.id/IETgYoi
    2010 N54 - DocRace - Motiv - CKI - TCKR - Volk - ER - CSF - Vorsteiner

    Click here to enlarge

  19. #69
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by R.G. Click here to enlarge
    Got ya. This is the other doc I ran across

    http://docdro.id/IETgYoi
    Thanks. I've seen that one a while ago but having a really thorough look through it again. Reading about the shiftmaps gives me another thing for the to-do list:

    Find the downhill downshift threshold(s) and change the braking threshold to switch from XE to E mode so that the car downshifts sooner in D mode when braking lightly down hills and not needing to hit the brakes hard and fast to initiate a downshift.

  20. #70
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    OK I think I can make a guess at the highest achievable pressure to apply to clutch circuits, at which point, higher numbers would probably not lead to higher actual pressures. I don't understand how it's physically acheived in the valvebody but it seems to line up with the types of numbers BMW use in the stock calibrations.

    I read a Ford 6R80 service manual, which is pretty much a 6HP26 and 6HP26 and 6HP21 shift control is the same.

    - It lists "Variable solenoid pressure" as 0-70psi. This is the EDS valve's 0-4.6bar range.
    - It also lists "Full solenoid pressure" as 77-82psi.

    I don't understand how the above works mechanically, but considering that BMW use a value of 5.6bar (81psi) in one offgoing shift pressure table, this lines up with the "full solenoid pressure" value in the Ford 6R80 service manual.

    With no other sources for more specific information, I'm going to continue my tuning on the assumption that 5.6 is the highest useful value for the shiftmap tables. I'm not going to try and go higher then try to detect subtle differences and proclaim that there are gains beyond it due to some placebo effect. I'll just consider 5.6 a limit and tune based around that then be happy with what the results of that provide.


    On another note, I've heard from a beta tester that the torque limit active happens at the exact same point as it did before with the xHP Stage 2 OTS beta with the torque limiter apparently raised to 700nm. Looks like they have at least another torque limit table to find.

  21. #71
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    I'll have another big thorough search for any possible torque limiter tables later today. RBT indicated in another thread that ~1000nm is the highest number for the torque limit, so if it's a 16-bit value, the conversion would probably be X/64.

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by R.G. Click here to enlarge
    That info is in this literature Brad, so there might be some other helpful info in here as well.

    http://docdro.id/XQUBsf6

    @Sticky, what is the max pdf attachment size allowed?
    3 megs. That one is 7.9 megs but I can host it on the server if necessary and not the through the attachment system.

    You can also upload it to the file sharing system in the above tab which has a 25 meg limit I believe.

  23. #73
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    Another dead end looking for torque limits with the latest conversion guess.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bradsm87 Click here to enlarge
    Another dead end looking for torque limits with the latest conversion guess.
    Hey Brad, I would base your search off the scaling used in Max Torque at Clutch (AT) in my XDF. Values are signed, so max is 0x7FFF so 32767 decimal. Actual scaling is X/32 giving 1023.96875NM

  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jyamona@motiv Click here to enlarge
    Hey Brad, I would base your search off the scaling used in Max Torque at Clutch (AT) in my XDF. Values are signed, so max is 0x7FFF so 32767 decimal. Actual scaling is X/32 giving 1023.96875NM
    Thanks! I'll give it a try.

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