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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    We will talk when the time comes. I would like to see what the before and after really is. Maybe have you go to EPL for a before run, come down and get the head put on and go back to them for another run.
    Sounds good, I'm double checking all my connections Saturday I have a small exhaust leak.. As soon as that's squared up I'm looking to dyno
    JB4LIFE

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Yeah my apologies on that one. I wasnt trying to group everyone in on that comment but i think the people who actually invest the time and money into their cars would see where im coming from and know they arent included in it. But thank you for clearing it up.

    Sorry just ranting a bit. Had several customers call me today and try to get me to go down in price on work, or say 'xyz shop has them for this much, and they are charging me abc to do it'. One customer doesnt bother me but when you get 4-5 people in a row it gets a bit annoying. Still working on the customer relations end of things.


    Back on topic, carry on Click here to enlarge
    Days of $850 DPs and $2000+ exhausts for N54s are numbered thats for sure Click here to enlarge thank the online community for that and forums such as this one or any other enthusiast forum for bringing knowledge of "worth" to the dudes who're paying cash for work on their cars...paying for labour though is a different thing and personally don't mind paying a bit extra when I know work will be done with good quality...but if you can get a deal on something why not? I'm sure you look for deals when you're spending money right? Ease up a bit and understand that you're on the receiving end of this game and maybe you need to open up a few more shops so you can reduce labour costs a bit by raising volume

    I think this cylinder head is a great upgrade, probably a bit on the expensive end...it'll cost probably around another 1200-1500 to be put in...so ~$6000 for a cylinder upgrade definitely isn't negligible or for your average impulse buyer out there...
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 02-04-2011 at 01:13 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Ease up a bit and understand that you're on the receiving end of this game and maybe you need to open up a few more shops so you can reduce labour costs a bit by raising volume
    Keyboard economics.

  4. #54
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    You are all wrong.

    Rule number 1 in business, an item or service is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Buying and selling is a completely subjective transaction; enough with trying to label the worth of items. Thats the price, people can either pay for it or not; thats why we live in america; kthx bai
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    You are all wrong.

    Rule number 1 in business, an item or service is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Buying and selling is a completely subjective transaction; enough with trying to label the worth of items. Thats the price, people can either pay for it or not; thats why we live in america; kthx bai

    +1.

    Value is subjective.... I mean what is the value of your Redbull?... No really what is the value?

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Days of $850 DPs and $2000+ exhausts for N54s are numbered thats for sure Click here to enlarge thank the online community for that and forums such as this one or any other enthusiast forum for bringing knowledge of "worth" to the dudes who're paying cash for work on their cars...paying for labour though is a different thing and personally don't mind paying a bit extra when I know work will be done with good quality...but if you can get a deal on something why not? I'm sure you look for deals when you're spending money right? Ease up a bit and understand that you're on the receiving end of this game and maybe you need to open up a few more shops so you can reduce labour costs a bit by raising volume

    I think this cylinder head is a great upgrade, probably a bit on the expensive end...it'll cost probably around another 1200-1500 to be put in...so ~$6000 for a cylinder upgrade definitely isn't negligible or for your average impulse buyer out there...
    .


    So i like buying ebay downpipes and knockoff exhaust systems for my BMW? This is the typical mindset of every person I have come across these days...why spend money on quality parts built here? I'll just pay some guy in Taiwan who makes $#@! ebay downpipes or exhaust that kinda doesnt fit right, but whatever, as long as I didnt spend 2k on an exhaust that would fit perfect.

    I need to move my demographic to people 30 and up....they understand what it takes to make a quality part and will pay for it. And they are usually keeping their car for the long run, not leasing it and putting cheapo parts on it just to get some speed kicks out of it for a little before they return it.


    Open more shops? If I had more work to do and I was overloaded then yes, but around here theres a shop on every corner. Makes no sense to. This isnt a chain repair shop, we specialize in a few certain things and the market demand is not enough to expand the shop to more than one location. Plus trying to find good employees these days sucks. Everyone wants to get paid for nothing or slack off immensely when they can.

    If these guys churned out 20-30 heads ready to go, then yea maybe the price would be less but as a small niche company prices are going to be expensive due to low demand. If YOU had that kind of money to layout, would you do it and then hope that you can sell all 20-30 heads before another company jumps in and cuts all the profit out because they are copying you, and not spending any money in R&D?

  8. #58
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    + 1000 , What Matt doesn't see is that same brand will sell an exhaust for Evo for 800 and 1300 for 335 , BMW tax is there and you can not deny it.

  9. #59
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    However PAW is going to change the game on n54, I think I want to keep my car and build it =]

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by n54BoostOnCoke Click here to enlarge
    + 1000 , What Matt doesn't see is that same brand will sell an exhaust for Evo for 800 and 1300 for 335 , BMW tax is there and you can not deny it.
    So when an evo uses one exhaust pipe and a BMW uses 2, another muffler and resonator, it's going to sell for the same price? Using more mAterials but taking that profit out of my pocket....suree great way to run a business.

    An evo exhaust consists of a long straight pipe, one bend and a muffler. And they sell that $#@! for 600 bucks.

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    So when an evo uses one exhaust pipe and a BMW uses 2, another muffler and resonator, it's going to sell for the same price? Using more mAterials but taking that profit out of my pocket....suree great way to run a business.
    Don't forget smaller market with less developers for the N54...

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Don't forget smaller market with less developers for the N54...

    I think I can count on both hands the amount of companies that make an exhaust for our cars. Ok the companies that make rear section mufflers and try to sell it for the same price as a full exhaust, yeah I can see the gouging in that. But the full exhausts need not apply to that.

    Evos? STis? Forget it....you have at least 20. Plus eBay specials always hurt the price of better quality parts, but I was talking to a brick wall on that subject.

    I think I know how MHP feels when they repeatedly set the community right yet still get people trying to prove them wrong.

    I'm not on the receiving end of things here, I'm on the giving end. I am a shop/small time fabricator. That has been what I do for the last 4 years. I know what it takes to put time and effort into something to build/weld/assemble, and when I keep my prices reasonable, I walk out losing in the situation, or at best breaking even. Ok so why don't I charge more money then?


    Because then it turns into 'why is it so expensive, here comes the BMW tax, you're trying to get one over on me aren't you'

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    I think I can count on both hands the amount of companies that make an exhaust for our cars. Ok the companies that make rear section mufflers and try to sell it for the same price as a full exhaust, yeah I can see the gouging in that. But the full exhausts need not apply to that.

    Evos? STis? Forget it....you have at least 20. Plus eBay specials always hurt the price of better quality parts, but I was talking to a brick wall on that subject.

    I think I know how MHP feels when they repeatedly set the community right yet still get people trying to prove them wrong.

    I'm not on the receiving end of things here, I'm on the giving end. I am a shop/small time fabricator. That has been what I do for the last 4 years. I know what it takes to put time and effort into something to build/weld/assemble, and when I keep my prices reasonable, I walk out losing in the situation, or at best breaking even. Ok so why don't I charge more money then?


    Because then it turns into 'why is it so expensive, here comes the BMW tax'
    You know what Matt? Enough of this $#@!. I want to relax, have some drinks, and watch some ladies dance. The system is broken.

    I'm sick of hearing people who are not even in the market for this complain about the price instead of appreciating we have someone taking the plunge offering it when no one else will. At least this forum somewhat gets it.

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You know what Matt? Enough of this $#@!. I want to relax, have some drinks, and watch some ladies dance. The system is broken.

    I'm sick of hearing people who are not even in the market for this complain about the price instead of appreciating we have someone taking the plunge offering it when no one else will. At least this forum somewhat gets it.
    Send me some of that wine lol..I could use a good drink right now and watch some ladies climb a pole.

    One more week to Miami!

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Send me some of that wine lol..I could use a good drink right now and watch some ladies climb a pole.

    One more week to Miami!
    If it wasn't for wine I don't know if I could deal with some of these people. If you are ever in my area, count on me opening quality bottles for you.

    I hope Miami gives you some relaxation, I think you have earned a break.

  16. #66
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    I agree with this 100%. I actually am pretty impressed with the exhaust manifold. When comparing to some other platforms, I'd say its a very good product.

    As for the economical discussion, I just dont think as a seller you can win sometimes. I've released my turbo upgrade with very little profit margin (definitely no "BMW tax"), yet still I see from time to time from people "in the know" that they are way overpriced (ie. because they can buy 2 Highly produced EVO3 16Gs for $1500- that would never work bolt onto this platform). I am going to tell you that these people have no idea what has gone into these in machine time, material costs, welding, other fabrications, etc. I can only imagine what I'd see if I had factored my personal time/R&D into actually putting them into production, it would easily be thousand+ more per setup. When my setup is $2899, TD Stage 2 around $7000, and ASR at $4995 it becomes somewhat unsettling to read these things especially when I know for a fact what goes into them and it isn't far off from purchase price. Not to mention all of the finishing "touches" (which was/is a lot of time and $$$) in my product as compared to these competitive examples. In short, you can't ever please them all unless you give all for nothing.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Matt, I don't see a problem with the exhaust manifold. The strong point is that it is compact not wasting energy outside and stii probably flows what is needed.

    Yes. It's not tubular & equal length but I still like the design since it could be a lot worse and it needs to fit in the tight place. I don't think we can enhance it in any way.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    I agree with this 100%. I actually am pretty impressed with the exhaust manifold. When comparing to some other platforms, I'd say its a very good product.

    As for the economical discussion, I just dont think as a seller you can win sometimes. I've released my turbo upgrade with very little profit margin (definitely no "BMW tax"), yet still I see from time to time from people "in the know" that they are way overpriced (ie. because they can buy 2 Highly produced EVO3 16Gs for $1500- that would never work bolt onto this platform). I am going to tell you that these people have no idea what has gone into these in machine time, material costs, welding, other fabrications, etc. I can only imagine what I'd see if I had factored my personal time/R&D into actually putting them into production, it would easily be thousand+ more per setup. When my setup is $2899, TD Stage 2 around $7000, and ASR at $4995 it becomes somewhat unsettling to read these things especially when I know for a fact what goes into them and it isn't far off from purchase price. Not to mention all of the finishing "touches" (which was/is a lot of time and $$$) in my product as compared to these competitive examples. In short, you can't ever please them all unless you give all for nothing.
    So well said!

    I think it is important to point out that those who think they are "in the know" just because they sit there putting down anyone and everything on forums with a few other e-thugs does not make them "in the know."

    If anything, you would be in the the know. I feel your package is incredibly well priced especially in comparison to the competition.

  18. #68
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    Thank you Robert Click here to enlarge Someone on the manufacturing side finally puts some foundation underneath my statements.

    Its been a rough week. I have to do some research on attracting more clientele.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Thank you Robert Click here to enlarge Someone on the manufacturing side finally puts some foundation underneath my statements.

    Its been a rough week. I have to do some research on attracting more clientele.

    May I suggest a pole and some girls?

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sr20seb Click here to enlarge
    May I suggest a pole and some girls?
    Now there is money well spent.

  21. #71
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    Rob, the people complain who think a turbo upgrade is a turbo upgrade. At the end those who do it properly will win. Your turbo upgrade is by FAR the best in the market. The same people say this is just a head porting job. No, they don't know what is inconel and why it has been used. PAW could cheap out by doing just a head job but they didn't. They did it properly.

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Rob, the people complain who think a turbo upgrade is a turbo upgrade. At the end those who do it properly will win. Your turbo upgrade is by FAR the best in the market. The same people say this is just a head porting job. No, they don't know what is inconel and why it has been used. PAW could cheap out by doing just a head job but they didn't. They did it properly.
    EXACTLY.

  23. #73
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    At least people are discussing interested more advanced stuff here , e90post is so damn annoying with the which intake is the best thread, or how much hp I will gain with magnaflow muffler.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by n54BoostOnCoke Click here to enlarge
    At least people are discussing interested more advanced stuff here , e90post is so damn annoying with the which intake is the best thread, or how much hp I will gain with magnaflow muffler.
    Which is why I have been spending more time here.

  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    Which is why I have been spending more time here.
    Well, after reading what other forums are doing. We like it here more than other forums. Less time it's spent at keyboard & just moving ahead.

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