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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    correct me if I'm wrong but I think labor should be around 20 hours...think books quote 18.8 with all the little bmw special tools so I guess if you don't have them it could take quite a bit longer
    BMW also says turbos should take ~18 hours? My tech did mine in 9 or 10 taking his time..
    JB4LIFE

  2. #27
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    They quote such long hours so they can make more money... Plus the techs get paid for the quoted time it's suppose to take- so they can do 80 hours of quoted work time in a 40 hour work week
    JB4LIFE

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    So then how many hours should it be? 10?

    Does the motor need to be pulled?

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  4. #29
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    I doubt this would make any gain without a turbo upgrade. It's really cool to see tho. I personally would hold off on such a mod until a reliable dual gt25/8 or single gt35 upgrade is available. You'd have to be there before $4K for 40 hp would be worth it. Can't wait to see the results.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    I doubt this would make any gain without a turbo upgrade. It's really cool to see tho. I personally would hold off on such a mod until a reliable dual gt25/8 or single gt35 upgrade is available. You'd have to be there before $4K for 40 hp would be worth it. Can't wait to see the results.
    We'll know more when we see the results paired with RB's which is what one person is getting. Expect those results in the next few weeks Click here to enlarge

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  6. #31
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    I would have to ask a friend or two at BMW but Im pretty sure this would be 20 hours or so. Both turbos and the intake manifold have to come out, then the head comes off. Lining the timing chain up is the hardest part, and then assembly of all the injectors/ fuel rail and plugs and coils. And the first time around I am NOT rushing to 'beat the clock' on this one.

    I like how this thread on the other forum consisted of nothing important. People bashing sticky or 'too expensive, this should cost $1500, I'll buy something else instead'

    I get sick of the bull$#@! sometimes, excuse my french.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    I like how this thread on the other forum consisted of nothing important. People bashing sticky or 'too expensive, this should cost $1500, I'll buy something else instead'

    I get sick of the bull$#@! sometimes, excuse my french.
    If they hate then let them hate and watch the money pile up.

    I'm glad there is a place to escape all the kids, real info and real enthusiasts (and real vendors Click here to enlarge ) are all here, so who cares.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    I would have to ask a friend or two at BMW but Im pretty sure this would be 20 hours or so. Both turbos and the intake manifold have to come out, then the head comes off. Lining the timing chain up is the hardest part, and then assembly of all the injectors/ fuel rail and plugs and coils. And the first time around I am NOT rushing to 'beat the clock' on this one.
    20 hours of labor is rough as this definitely is not cheap but we are all happy this is available obviously. No need to complain about the price, if you don't like it don't buy it. I doubt any of the kids leasing are in the market anyway.

    If the turbos and the intake manifold have to come off then I would say pairing this with an RB upgrade makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?

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  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    20 hours of labor is rough as this definitely is not cheap but we are all happy this is available obviously. No need to complain about the price, if you don't like it don't buy it. I doubt any of the kids leasing are in the market anyway.

    If the turbos and the intake manifold have to come off then I would say pairing this with an RB upgrade makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
    Any real market, people will pay for good labor. At my former shop people dropped 10-20k without even thinking twice. All they wanted to see what a breakdown of what was getting done, how much each part of the work cost and an explanation. Good work comes at a price, and unfortunatley BMW owners are in the top ranks of trying to justify a price to anything. It makes me want to get out of this business and go back to building Porsches and seeing real results on the track, not the same repeated dynos of 'I have FBOs and I only made xxx, why is my dyno low'.

    What about 0-60 Motorsports? He has some crazy work done over there, and you dont see people saying he cost too much right?

    And yes doing this with a turbo upgrade would be beneficial. You would save on the additional labor later on to do the turbos.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    and unfortunatley BMW owners are in the top ranks of trying to justify a price to anything. It makes me want to get out of this business and go back to building Porsches and seeing real results on the track, not the same repeated dynos of 'I have FBOs and I only made xxx, why is my dyno low'.
    Please don't group everybody together. Unfortunately, you have to deal with a lot of kids with leased cars who want everything for free. You get kids who will play tuners against each other to try and get a free N54 tune as sad and pathetic as that is.

    I won't even say what I drop on my car... and all cash. I drop it off, do the work, end of story.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    What about 0-60 Motorsports? He has some crazy work done over there, and you dont see people saying he cost too much right?
    He doesn't deal with the 16-22 demographic. People pay for quality work.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    And yes doing this with a turbo upgrade would be beneficial. You would save on the additional labor later on to do the turbos.
    That is exactly what I was thinking. I think this combo might prove to be popular.

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  10. #35
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    I agree with this for the most part. I do think however that some of the prices of the aftermarket parts are ridiculous though and I believe that results from the BMW label. An exhaust, for example, shouldn't cost $2K on a car that BMW made 250,000 of.

  11. #36
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    Yeah my apologies on that one. I wasnt trying to group everyone in on that comment but i think the people who actually invest the time and money into their cars would see where im coming from and know they arent included in it. But thank you for clearing it up.

    Sorry just ranting a bit. Had several customers call me today and try to get me to go down in price on work, or say 'xyz shop has them for this much, and they are charging me abc to do it'. One customer doesnt bother me but when you get 4-5 people in a row it gets a bit annoying. Still working on the customer relations end of things.


    Back on topic, carry on Click here to enlarge

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    I agree with this for the most part. I do think however that some of the prices of the aftermarket parts are ridiculous though and I believe that results from the BMW label. An exhaust, for example, shouldn't cost $2K on a car that BMW made 250,000 of.
    True, we often get a BMW tax but on this part until someone demonstrates offering better for less this is the best value available.

    I'm just happy the N54 guys have a solid head option now. It won't be for everyone but the market is certainly better with this head and PAW Motorsports involvement in particular.

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  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boom Click here to enlarge
    I agree with this for the most part. I do think however that some of the prices of the aftermarket parts are ridiculous though and I believe that results from the BMW label. An exhaust, for example, shouldn't cost $2K on a car that BMW made 250,000 of.
    Any shop has to survive on the profit generated by this if that is all they make. Price of steel these days isnt cheap. For cheaper end 304 i paid 40-50 a bend. Plus flanges, mufflers, fabricating the jig and paying the welders to do their skills (most of which get paid very good for) and then the R&D that goes into making each one sound like it does. At the end of the day you are making what, 400 bucks profit? Do you think that is a lot?

    What if you sold two exhaust systems a week. That is 800 bucks. Now lets say you have a house, car, wife and kids. You think 800 a week is gonna cut it? I make more than that and its still tough. And im not even out of my house!

    Anyways enough talking business economics...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If they hate then let them hate and watch the money pile up.
    haha..nice..i like the fifty reference

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    Seen this head in person, looks very promising!

    I met them about 2-3 years ago, great guys, very honest and to the point and they know what they're doing.

    Ive over heard them talking about more than just what you see here eventually!

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLV-Engineering Click here to enlarge
    Seen this head in person, looks very promising!

    I met them about 2-3 years ago, great guys, very honest and to the point and they know what they're doing.

    Ive over heard them talking about more than just what you see here eventually!
    Exactly, they have some big plans in the works for multiple platforms.

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  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mazdaspeed6 Click here to enlarge
    Hey matt if your looking for a tester I'm only an hr and a half away Click here to enlarge
    We will talk when the time comes. I would like to see what the before and after really is. Maybe have you go to EPL for a before run, come down and get the head put on and go back to them for another run.

  18. #43
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Exactly, they have some big plans in the works for multiple platforms.
    Yup, Lenny(M54B25) has been tuning BMW/Mini since about 2006-07 and other vehicles even longer and was always traveling to other countries to tune race cars. Seems to have a good background.

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    The increase on the intake side is pretty impressive, but 4 grand for one head is ridiculous. BMW or not, they aren't doing anything new here. If they included cams, then okay; but they don't.

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    Well look at the volume, its low. This isnt an S50 head port job and valve cut for 900 bucks. There are not that many N54 owenrs who are going to risk being the first ones to get this mod. Hence why they need to sell them at a premium, after all they are also taking the risk by entering a small volume market. This is how business works.

    I would have to say that I disagree that this head wouldnt benefit the stock turbos, I think all else being the same, youll pick up 20 whp at least just from this head upgrade on stock turbos and bolt ons.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

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    Click here to enlarge

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Well look at the volume, its low. This isnt an S50 head port job and valve cut for 900 bucks. There are not that many N54 owenrs who are going to risk being the first ones to get this mod. Hence why they need to sell them at a premium, after all they are also taking the risk by entering a small volume market. This is how business works.

    I would have to say that I disagree that this head wouldnt benefit the stock turbos, I think all else being the same, youll pick up 20 whp at least just from this head upgrade on stock turbos and bolt ons.
    This. And even spool time would be reduced possibly.

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    This. And even spool time would be reduced possibly.
    It should reduce spool time as you are making the motor more efficient although it seems the flow gains really come at higher rpm's.

    And yes, DBFIU is right on but try explaining that to people who want things for free.

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  23. #48
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    They said they use their own custom made inconel exhaust valves. Usually BMW made them sodium filled stainless steel, but inconel is not a cheap metal to work with. I could easily see $100 a valve, plus new seals. 24 seals plus new exhaust valves is at least 1300 bucks.

    Upgrade valves for my ancient e28 are almost 80 a pop. If I built the head it would be over 1000 bucks and not even include the cam. And that's just parts...not including the labor by the machine shop.

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    I've personally seen this head and dyno charts and it shows gains of around 40hp, they are also have from what I've seen the best N55 tune out there.

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jaza45 Click here to enlarge
    I've personally seen this head and dyno charts and it shows gains of around 40hp, they are also have from what I've seen the best N55 tune out there.
    Funny you mention that, we will be putting up info on the N55 tune soon as well Click here to enlarge

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