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  1. #1
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    ESS 4.6 liter SC dyno numbers - 559 wheel - Has ESS been manipulating past graphs?

    Check this out, at 6 PSI, 559 wheel:

    Click here to enlarge

    Did I call it or what? My comment from the 60-130 thread:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
    boost is ~6 psi but they have not officially said, and no dyno numbers but I am betting in the 550 range.
    Man, guessing the boost and within 9 whp of the dyno numbers based on the 60-130 without even knowing how much boost he was running or any supplemental information. I don't mean to brag or sound conceited, but holy crap, I'm good Click here to enlarge

    Now with higher boost, here are the numbers, barely cracking 600 whp:

    Click here to enlarge

    What does this tell you? Well, this is the first time ESS has actually hit 600 wheel honestly, but they have never done it on stock internals. Notice how there were no uncorrected graphs this time?

    What is up with gaining 40 wheel with a half PSI of boost? I'm betting they are lying about 91 octane in that case. I can't take ESS or what's his name at their word, as there have been too many dyno lies up to this point.

    Anyone else notice the torque curve? The graph was not fixed for the first time. The torque drops off as it should. Hmmm, why is that PG? In an e-mail the guy actually tried to tell me the torque does not drop off like other kits because of ESS's magic manifold Click here to enlarge

    Well, the best part about all of this? My car on stock internals would still take him. What has the stroker gained him? Nothing really over stock internals because it was not done properly for boost.

    One more thing I must add, PencilGeek used to put me down for saying that a dynojet was my choice of dyno to use when posting numbers. What was used in this test? Well well Robert, nice to see you finally starting to catch up to how the game works and the longer this goes on, the longer your list of apologies will be Click here to enlarge

    What I want to see now is those cars ESS was claiming over 600 wheel with uncorrected through the stock exhaust dyno'd on this same dyno without the results being messed with. Seems all my comments about them fudging their dynographs have finally been taken to heart and they know they can't get away with it any longer Click here to enlarge

    Definitely makes all the past graphs look extremely suspect though....

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    If you guys want to see what I mean about the torque curve, here is a graph ESS had been passing around earlier claiming over 600 wheel from a car on stock internals through the stock exhaust on about 93 octane:

    Click here to enlarge

    So, anyone care to explain the ESS dyno discrepancy? Why all the graphs that come from Roman have no torque dropoff and inflated peak figures due to it? Why do independent graphs look as they should but completely different from ESS's own graphs?

    Look, I'm sorry I have to say it, but it is now abundantly clear ESS has been fixing graphs and lying about it to show inflated peak figures. Does 630+ wheel on stock internals and 93 octane make sense to anyone out there? Yep, the graph is uncorrected, that is part of how they inflated the numbers, but even if it was corrected it would drop down a couple dozen whp. So, is something wrong with the stroker or has something been wrong with every graph ESS has released from their own dyno?

    This is why I asked for trap speeds only for ESS to shoot it down with ESS supporters telling me drag racing is pointless yadda yadda yadda, seems I should have pressed even harder.

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    LoL at the magic manifold comment..

    I do find it intresting about the funny looking tourqe curve and especially the +40whp on .5psi.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I've always believed that ESS isn't the most truthful with their claims.

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    im no genius on any of this stuff so i dont get involved...but why doesnt someone post it on m3post, without being to "mean or talking $#@!" and ask for an explanation so it doesnt get removed? im not knowledgeable about this stuff to really say it
    Current:
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammyrusso Click here to enlarge
    im no genius on any of this stuff so i dont get involved...but why doesnt someone post it on m3post, without being to "mean or talking $#@!" and ask for an explanation so it doesnt get removed? im not knowledgeable about this stuff to really say it
    Well, I can't post it on M3post and who would be willing to? Nobody really as people are afraid of getting banned for some reason. Obviously, I would post it no matter what as the true story should get out there.

    Secondly, they censor any and all links to BimmerBoost so it has to be linked through a third party.

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    I'm confused. "Low" boost is ~6.5psi. "High" boost is ~6.75.

    He gains ~23hp/psi from his stroker to stroker+SC. But he gains 40hp through just a 0.25psi boost change??


    He says no tune change, but AFR magically went ~.3 leaner and timing retarded ~2.5* -- that's a pretty significant change in tune for only 1/4 psi boost.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by spdu4ea Click here to enlarge
    I'm confused. "Low" boost is ~6.5psi. "High" boost is ~6.75.

    He gains ~23hp/psi from his stroker to stroker+SC. But he gains 40hp through just a 0.25psi boost change??


    He says no tune change, but AFR magically went ~.3 leaner and timing retarded ~2.5* -- that's a pretty significant change in tune for only 1/4 psi boost.
    You make good points which would seem require a bit of explanation... which it seems he does not like. How do you account for the AFR and timing for 1/4 psi of boost?

    Apparently he is e-mailing and calling moderators trying to get this thread pulled Click here to enlarge What a sad, petty individual.

    Anyway, would love to read more of your insight.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Apparently he is e-mailing and calling moderators trying to get this thread pulled Click here to enlarge What a sad, petty individual.

    Anyway, would love to read more of your insight.
    J, just for the record he texted me asking to have the "copyright" graphs taken down, but the thread with a link he has no problem with.
    08 E92 M3 - DCT
    Bolt Ons - Best ET 11.88 Best Trap Speed 119.8 MPH
    60-130 MPH (3 shifts) 10.71s
    Gintani Stage 2+ Supercharger 60-130MPH (3 shifts) 7.06s
    11.45 @ 131.6 MPH
    579WHP @9.3psi

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
    J, just for the record he texted me asking to have the "copyright" graphs taken down, but the thread with a link he has no problem with.
    Yes, that is what he texted you, but there have been different messages to others Click here to enlarge

    Those graphs aren't being hosted here so I can't help him, he needs to contact the admin staff and find out where they are being hosted if they are willing to even divulge that information (I doubt it Click here to enlarge ) and then take it up with that particular host. Guy is a nutjob if he thinks people can't link to images.

    Sound like he has a problem with not being able to control the internet or BimmerBoost.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes, that is what he texted you, but there have been different messages to others Click here to enlarge

    Those graphs aren't being hosted here so I can't help him, he needs to contact the admin staff and find out where they are being hosted if they are willing to even divulge that information (I doubt it Click here to enlarge ) and then take it up with that particular host.

    Sound like he has a problem with not being able to control the internet or BimmerBoost.
    ROFLMAO

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    It's interesting with all of ESS's mud slinging saying we run our cars lean and this FI car is running lean. I wouldn't let that car out the door like that for fear of it blowing. Magic manifold must have been forged in the same place as the ring from lord of the rings.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Powerchip Click here to enlarge
    It's interesting with all of ESS's mud slinging saying we run our cars lean and this FI car is running lean. I wouldn't let that car out the door like that for fear of it blowing. Magic manifold must have been forged in the same place as the ring from lord of the rings.
    Do you mean how lean it is when it gains 40 whp with a half psi of boost as shown here:

    Click here to enlarge

    Is it possible to lean out that much without another tune? As in, the only way that WHP was hit was due to aggressively leaning it out? That is my guess but I'm not a tuner.

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    This is interesting, Roman claims to have never posted a 600 wheel graph through the stock exhaust earlier now that he has been called on it, he said only two cars have posted 600 wheel through full exhausts: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...0&postcount=16

    His quote:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Roman
    Robert's graphs look nothing like our standard SC E90 graphs for a reason. When you SC a 4.6 motor VS a 4.0 motor you will have a much different TQ curve. There have only been 2 cars we have ever seen 600 whp from a 4.0 motor. One was this car which is a dealers project car and the other is the GS race car. Both cars run a custom made race tune with less safety margin than our production kits.
    The torque drop off on the stroker will be slightly earlier, but it still occurs in the stock car. The torque curve NEVER looks like the straight line ESS has, 4.0 or 4.6 when it is an independent dyno. Also, ESS posted this graph in the beginning claiming 600 wheel through the stock exhaust on pump gas:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Asbjorn@ESS
    Tests were performed on a 100% stock car on pump fuel only. The kit is 100% bolt-on.
    So, does he not have his story straight or what? ESS claimed 600 wheel through the stock exhaust on pump gas December 13, 2008. Now they are saying only two cars have done it through built exhausts.... something is up, you decide.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Roman just had a post referencing my above post here deleted from M3forum.

    He can't seem to explain it and wants to make this legitimate question about their own data that they provided and his changing story disappear...

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    i remember reading that the 600whp car was an otherwise stock car.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
    i remember reading that the 600whp car was an otherwise stock car.
    Yes, that is EXACTLY what they claimed, I even quoted the post. 100% stock car on pump gas, so what is going on?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    forum politics are really getting old

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JuanCarpantier Click here to enlarge
    forum politics are really getting old


    Sticky if you knew that the GS race car started out as a stock test car by ESS you would also know that the dyno you posted above of project x is the same car as the GS car. This would explain why there have only been 2 cars to make 600 whp. A little research goes a long way. With the stock exhaust the ESS / GS car required 8-9 psi to make 600 whp on pump fuel. With the GS race car and the dealer owned car which run catless it required less boost. It seems that you have a real hard on for trying to discredit ESS dyno charts. Is this because ESS has been able to produce the most proven HP in the E90 M3 ? Is it because it has taken you 10+ psi, custom catless exhaust and meth to make anywhere near 600 whp and you cant figure out why ? I find criticism from someone who has never posted dyno's of his own car but claims he makes 700 hp kinda odd ?? Why don't you post up your current dynojet with all your data AFR, Timing, Boost etc.. and we can have a discussion about your car and compare it to others ? until you are ready to do this you should keep your opinions of other vendors dyno's to yourself.

    Also Sticky if you have questions about ESS product or their dyno's why dont you just pick up the phone and call them instead of spreading false accusations and creating shadow accounts on other forums to spam their threads ? This way you can get your answers straight from the source and share the info you learn with the people who visit your site. I know this is the exact opposite of how your mind works but you should try it out sometime, it might make this forum more attractive to people looking for more real data and less BS drama.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Smooth Click here to enlarge
    Sticky if you knew that the GS race car started out as a stock test car by ESS you would also know that the dyno you posted above of project x is the same car as the GS car. This would explain why there have only been 2 cars to make 600 whp. A little research goes a long way. With the stock exhaust the ESS / GS car required 8-9 psi to make 600 whp on pump fuel. With the GS race car and the dealer owned car which run catless it required less boost. It seems that you have a real hard on for trying to discredit ESS dyno charts. Is this because ESS has been able to produce the most proven HP in the E90 M3 ? Is it because it has taken you 10+ psi, custom catless exhaust and meth to make anywhere near 600 whp and you cant figure out why ? I find criticism from someone who has never posted dyno's of his own car but claims he makes 700 hp kinda odd ?? Why don't you post up your current dynojet with all your data AFR, Timing, Boost etc.. and we can have a discussion about your car and compare it to others ? until you are ready to do this you should keep your opinions of other vendors dyno's to yourself.

    Also Sticky if you have questions about ESS product or their dyno's why dont you just pick up the phone and call them instead of spreading false accusations and creating shadow accounts on other forums to spam their threads ? This way you can get your answers straight from the source and share the info you learn with the people who visit your site. I know this is the exact opposite of how your mind works but you should try it out sometime, it might make this forum more attractive to people looking for more real data and less BS drama.
    Please don't try to lecture me on the GS so called racecar when I have translated the entire original thread from Norwegian to English: http://www.gatebil.no/forum/viewtopi...a46080093591b1

    You are telling me the GS racecar made 600 whp through the stock exhaust on pump fuel? But the stroker barely cracks 600 whp at 6-7 psi through headers and built exhaust? Hmmm... I think it is because the torque doesn't drop off so that gives inflated peak figures on the graph... why is the independent graph so different? Why do ESS's own graphs not have any torque dropoff? I would like to know, wouldn't you?

    Actually, ESS has not proven their hp because they have never gone to a drag strip. Independent dyno's have shown completely different numbers and graphs, why? Why is that?

    I can claim hp numbers because I have actually proved it in the real world, on the track, where it counts, and no one else has come close. ESS certainly has not. I wish I was running 10 psi, but I'm not.

    It has taken ESS a built motor and more displacement to approach where I am, kinda odd?

    Until ESS actually gets out to a strip and posts real numbers they are in no position to talk because we can't trust any of their dyno's after it has become clear something is up with them.

    Please, explain to me what false accusations? Roman in another thread claimed he has only hit 600 whp through a built exhaust. This was claimed through the stock exhaust. Which is it already? Roman has been passing around uncorrected charts as shown, why? Why uncorrected? ESS has never hit 600 whp SAE except this stroker motor, true or false?

    Would love to hear your opinion regarding the REAL DATA Click here to enlarge

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    Hey Sticky, when was the last time you actually drove your car on the street...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Smooth Click here to enlarge
    Sticky if you knew that the GS race car started out as a stock test car by ESS you would also know that the dyno you posted above of project x is the same car as the GS car. This would explain why there have only been 2 cars to make 600 whp. A little research goes a long way. With the stock exhaust the ESS / GS car required 8-9 psi to make 600 whp on pump fuel. With the GS race car and the dealer owned car which run catless it required less boost. It seems that you have a real hard on for trying to discredit ESS dyno charts. Is this because ESS has been able to produce the most proven HP in the E90 M3 ? Is it because it has taken you 10+ psi, custom catless exhaust and meth to make anywhere near 600 whp and you cant figure out why ? I find criticism from someone who has never posted dyno's of his own car but claims he makes 700 hp kinda odd ?? Why don't you post up your current dynojet with all your data AFR, Timing, Boost etc.. and we can have a discussion about your car and compare it to others ? until you are ready to do this you should keep your opinions of other vendors dyno's to yourself.

    Also Sticky if you have questions about ESS product or their dyno's why dont you just pick up the phone and call them instead of spreading false accusations and creating shadow accounts on other forums to spam their threads ? This way you can get your answers straight from the source and share the info you learn with the people who visit your site. I know this is the exact opposite of how your mind works but you should try it out sometime, it might make this forum more attractive to people looking for more real data and less BS drama.
    You were making a question about research, right?

    Explain this then. This is the graph posted in the original Norwegian thread:

    Click here to enlarge

    Ok?

    Also, notice that is with almost 8 psi:

    Here are the numbers with the compressor in place:
    7.8 PSI

    560hk/500 Nm at the wheels

    658hk/588 Nm in the engine

    Motor has standard feed, the original fuel pump and control!
    Now here is the graph we got on E46fanatics at 8 psi claimed through the stock exhaust:

    Click here to enlarge

    Why are the curves different? How is the same boost producing two different results? Why does that 600 whp graph never appear in the original thread from Norway? You claim these are the same car? Well, I did my research, you didn't do yours. Explain it.

    And one last thing, they claim the 560 number is the FINAL NUMBER in the original thread, so where did this 600 whp graph through the stock exhaust at 8 psi come from?

    This is the final figures, to NOK stretched rope a little longer effect wise .
    Charging the only 7 psi ... Men's okay and try to leave a margin of safety when driving with the original feed of the engine

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Dictator Click here to enlarge
    Hey Sticky, when was the last time you actually drove your car on the street...
    If you would like to discuss my car: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...rd-Fastest-E9X

    Try and have some respect for the topic, don't derail it.

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    It appears that there will not be a constructive or informative discussion about these dyno's here. If you guys want to start a new thread, go for it, but do it without accusations, please just ask fair, legitimate questions, spdu4ea's post and demeanor are a good example of what I mean.
    08 E92 M3 - DCT
    Bolt Ons - Best ET 11.88 Best Trap Speed 119.8 MPH
    60-130 MPH (3 shifts) 10.71s
    Gintani Stage 2+ Supercharger 60-130MPH (3 shifts) 7.06s
    11.45 @ 131.6 MPH
    579WHP @9.3psi

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    I have reopened the thread because we now know why there was a 40whp difference on these dyno's and I think it's good info, it is do to the car being dynoed in different gears. Look if you guys want to argue with each other and ask questions that don't pertain to the the thread then why not do it in a PM or appropriate thread as Sticky pointed out. Click here to enlarge

    http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=356657&page=4
    08 E92 M3 - DCT
    Bolt Ons - Best ET 11.88 Best Trap Speed 119.8 MPH
    60-130 MPH (3 shifts) 10.71s
    Gintani Stage 2+ Supercharger 60-130MPH (3 shifts) 7.06s
    11.45 @ 131.6 MPH
    579WHP @9.3psi

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