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View Poll Results: Turbo or Super Charge M54??

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  • Turbo

    10 83.33%
  • Super Charge

    2 16.67%
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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
    agreed, if OP doesnt have tuners readily available then a turbo setup is going to be complicated.. you'll either have to fly a tuner in to do it, or you'll have to trailer it to the tuner after its built unless he can create some sort of base map just to get you there. Or you would have to send logs of pulls on the street back and forth with a tuner for him to tune a turbo setup such as one the OP is talking about. In this case i would definately go with the more widely available and proven setup.
    He should just start with one of the kits available.

    Active Autowerke for centrifugal, Technique Tuning for turbo, or ESS for twin screw. He should pick his goals and go from there, these companies provide a tune that works with the kit.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You need to use paragraphs Click here to enlarge

    No, it will not match the response of a positive displacement blower. All you are doing with brake boosting is mitigating the turbo lag, it still exists. And I doubt he is going to be brake boosting everywhere he goes. There is no getting around it, a turbo needs to build boost. A positive displacement blower is always making boost. It is an impossibility to match the throttle response as well as curve of that style of blower with a turbo. A turbo can make more power and be more efficient, sure, but it is a different style of power delivery. For a street car, a twin screw is a lot of fun at all RPM ranges.

    The motor can handle 400 whp or so but the transmission can't. If he had a manual it would be a different story.
    Excuse me, ill try next time but im no college grad so i dunno how to form the best paragraphs Click here to enlarge Anyways regarding turbo lag off the line with a =n automatic is absolutely false, there is ABSOLUTELY NO TIME he WONT be at full boost IF he brake boosts off the line, an automatic once spooled stays spooled even through shifts. The turbo lag only exists if he rolls out from a stop without brake boosting or he is at a too low of rpm while driving and floors it, or he doesnt brake boost while at the correct rpm from a roll, otherwise off the line an automatic turbo car never sees anything but full boost all the way down the track till he lets off. If you dont believe me go look at some videos of the old turbo grand nationals, they're 3.8L v6 turbo automatic BEASTS with the right turbo on em Click here to enlarge Get an in car view and you'll see off the line they hit full boost and stay there till the end.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
    Excuse me, ill try next time but im no college grad so i dunno how to form the best paragraphs Click here to enlarge Anyways regarding turbo lag off the line with a =n automatic is absolutely false, there is ABSOLUTELY NO TIME he WONT be at full boost IF he brake boosts off the line, an automatic once spooled stays spooled even through shifts. The turbo lag only exists if he rolls out from a stop without brake boosting or he is at a too low of rpm while driving and floors it, or he doesnt brake boost while at the correct rpm from a roll, otherwise off the line an automatic turbo car never sees anything but full boost all the way down the track till he lets off. If you dont believe me go look at some videos of the old turbo grand nationals, they're 3.8L v6 turbo automatic BEASTS with the right turbo on em Click here to enlarge Get an in car view and you'll see off the line they hit full boost and stay there till the end.
    You are missing the point, a turbo has to spool. A twin screw does not. One makes boost instantly and the other does not. Brake boosting with an auto spools the turbo somewhat but it does not do what a twin screw does.

    Plus, it doesn't matter if he is moving. It also takes time to brake boost. Sure, in a racing situation it works but what about when you are just driving and all of a sudden punch it? You have lag. With a twin screw, you don't. Completely different power delivery.

    Most automatic turbo cars are beasts on the strip with a high enough stall, that does not change anything regarding the power delivery. I'm not questioning the performance here.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    He should just start with one of the kits available.

    Active Autowerke for centrifugal, Technique Tuning for turbo, or ESS for twin screw. He should pick his goals and go from there, these companies provide a tune that works with the kit.
    I agree 100% in his situation, unless OP is looking for an exotic setup to be different and is willing to spend the extra time/money/maintenance, then i would go with one of the proven kits you listed that comes with a proper tune. Another thing to remember is even if OP did the turbo kit and found a tuner, etc. it has to be a GOOD tuner, or the setup is as good as a paperweight. It's all in the tune, most important thing about the car and one thing that when doing should be taken very seriously and done correctly or not done at all. And from the sounds of where OP is coming from a tuner probably isnt capable of tuning a setup like this adequately unless he's done this type of tuning NUMEROUS times before, im not talking 10-20 cars im talking 100's of cars.. So IMO best solution is what Sticky recommended.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You are missing the point, a turbo has to spool. A twin screw does not. One makes boost instantly and the other does not. Brake boosting with an auto spools the turbo somewhat but it does not do what a twin screw does.

    Plus, it doesn't matter if he is moving. It also takes time to brake boost. Sure, in a racing situation it works but what about when you are just driving and all of a sudden punch it? You have lag. With a twin screw, you don't. Completely different power delivery.

    Most automatic turbo cars are beasts on the strip with a high enough stall, that does not change anything regarding the power delivery. I'm not questioning the performance here.
    yes, the turbo does have to spool and when brake boosting off the line he would have to sit for at least a second or two to get the turbo full spooled before he took off, so i guess in a way you are right, but my point was that once the turbo is fully spooled from a stop (and when you're racing you know you're gonna race, so you know when to brake boost and not to so lag shouldnt matter too much, especially with the size of turbo he plans to run) itstays that way all the way down the strip till you let off. But your right if you just had to suddenly punch it, the charger would obviously take off quicker.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
    yes, the turbo does have to spool and when brake boosting off the line he would have to sit for at least a second or two to get the turbo full spooled before he took off, so i guess in a way you are right, but my point was that once the turbo is fully spooled from a stop (and when you're racing you know you're gonna race, so you know when to brake boost and not to so lag shouldnt matter too much, especially with the size of turbo he plans to run) itstays that way all the way down the strip till you let off. But your right if you just had to suddenly punch it, the charger would obviously take off quicker.
    Of course, in racing situations it doesn't really matter but these are different setups that are a matter of preference.

    In my opinion, for efficiency and top end turbos are a better option. But for fun factor and a street car, a twin screw is a ton of fun. Not to mention instant power can win some short races by itself. It doesn't even matter if you are racing or not, it just feels good. Almost as if you doubled the displacement of your motor.

    These are all just different approaches but all make a great performance increase and have their strengths and weaknesses.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Of course, in racing situations it doesn't really matter but these are different setups that are a matter of preference.

    In my opinion, for efficiency and top end turbos are a better option. But for fun factor and a street car, a twin screw is a ton of fun. Not to mention instant power can win some short races by itself. It doesn't even matter if you are racing or not, it just feels good. Almost as if you doubled the displacement of your motor.

    These are all just different approaches but all make a great performance increase and have their strengths and weaknesses.
    also agree, for the amount of power OP is looking for, unless he specifically wants to be different, and from where hes from i doubt anybody has even one of the regular kits so hed have to want to be WAY different, unless thats aso his goal then a regular proven kit is the way to go in this situation.
    To be honest when building my car i waited a bit until there was some good data backing up the turbokit that i bought before i ran out an bought it, because like i said i dont lik being a guinea pig when i dont have the money to be one. If i had the money that would be a different story, id be a damn test dummy lol, but thats not the case and i wanted to build my car and have the setup not only work, but work well and last, and its done just that. Custom setups tend to not be as reliable.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
    Custom setups tend to not be as reliable.
    Exactly, and since he is in Asia far away from any of these dealers he should definitely focus on a kit that has had a lot of testing. We will see what he does Click here to enlarge

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stimo Click here to enlarge
    agreed, if OP doesnt have tuners readily available then a turbo setup is going to be complicated.. you'll either have to fly a tuner in to do it, or you'll have to trailer it to the tuner after its built unless he can create some sort of base map just to get you there. Or you would have to send logs of pulls on the street back and forth with a tuner for him to tune a turbo setup such as one the OP is talking about. In this case i would definately go with the more widely available and proven setup.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    He should just start with one of the kits available.

    Active Autowerke for centrifugal, Technique Tuning for turbo, or ESS for twin screw. He should pick his goals and go from there, these companies provide a tune that works with the kit.
    thanks guys for all the respond, supercharger or a turbo.. the tuning you guys talking about are the ECU DME tuning right
    if i go with turbo or a supercharger kits from AA TT or ESS i need to send my ECU to the tuner in CONUS,

    the difference are kits available on the market the tuner already know how and what to tune with the ECU,
    but if i go customs build i need a tuner that really know how to build the Turbo and do the ECU tuning, is this correct what i'm getting???

    if that is the case, i will look for a reliable tuner around here but if i can't find one i don't have any choice but to get the kit available in CONUS.

  10. #35
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    just want to share a turbo E39 M54B20 i think..

  11. #36
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    yup def. turboed in that video and running an external wastegate to control boost, more $$ but well worth it on a turbo setup. If you go with a custom turbo setup that isnt a production kit that your tuner is familiar with, then yes i would recommend going with something the tuner is comfortable with. Remember a tuner may say he is comfortable tuning something, but make sure to ask how many setups hes tuned similar to yours and ask what they were running (parts wise) exactly. This will give you an idea how much he knows and if he knows what hes talking about.
    Remember you can have the strongest built motor that costs 100K dollars, you could have the best turbo kit, etc., but if the tune is no good, the motor will blow up guaranteed, and usually pretty quick if something is wrong with the tune unless you drive it like a grandma everywhere..
    In your situation, i would call your tuner of choice and ask what HE RECOMMENDS and see what he has done and what he is most comfortable with, and id go that route. Remember he is your tuner, so he is going to know what works with his type of tune and what doesnt. Always follow the suggestions of your tuner, the trick is to find a good tuner, thats the hard part. Research research research tuners where you're from if you can, and make the best decision possible.

    EDIT: and frm the looks of it, it looks like a disco potato sized turbo, 3 inch inlet not 4 so its def. not a 30R variant.. also looks like he has a dumptube to atmosphere..

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ihiro Click here to enlarge
    thanks guys for all the respond, supercharger or a turbo.. the tuning you guys talking about are the ECU DME tuning right
    if i go with turbo or a supercharger kits from AA TT or ESS i need to send my ECU to the tuner in CONUS,
    I believe they have dealers in Asia so you might not have to send it to the US. Either way, your ecu is going to have to be flashed and they will be able to accommodate you.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ihiro Click here to enlarge
    just want to share a turbo E39 M54B20 i think..
    If you are interested in M54 turbo setups, check this one out: http://bimmerboost.com/showthread.ph...i&prefixid=M54

  14. #39
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
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    is someone manufacturing those manifold?? or it's customs?
    Last edited by ihiro; 12-17-2010 at 11:59 PM.

  15. #40
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    That is all custom and very impressive work.

  16. #41
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    is M50 manifold or M52 single vanos manifold can be use for M54? because PEI330Ci manifold have bolts hole more than it supposed to be for the M54 engine..

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ihiro Click here to enlarge
    is M50 manifold or M52 single vanos manifold can be use for M54? because PEI330Ci manifold have bolts hole more than it supposed to be for the M54 engine..
    PEI330CI will have to confirm but I know the manifold gaskets are different which makes me thinks the manifolds themselves don't just bolt straight up.

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