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  1. #76
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mazdaspeed6 Click here to enlarge
    Someone here his user name begins with a U and he's pretty close to 600
    Where the hell is unfor?

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  2. #77
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    0 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Beep
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  3. #78
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    My point is, with equivalent displacement, internals, block, head cfm, max rotating speed, compressor, intake/exhaust desgin, drivetrain-loss and fuel, the Direct Injection motor will be able to make more power than the Port Injection motor because it will always be able to run a higher compression ratio at the same boost level.
    No it will not because if you run race gas you can raise the compression of the PI motor. The fuel is the limiting factor. On 91 octane, sure. But as you raise the quality of the gas you can raise the compression and where is DI's advantage? If it existed, why wouldn't it carry over into racing where they are not limited by the fuel (to the extent street cars are) ?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    This is purely for PERFORMANCE. If the increased PERFORMANCE of the engine's ability to handle fuel allows for a leaner A/F ratio at a certain horsepower level, then yes it will save fuel. This is what BMW did.

    To say it is JUST to save fuel is ridiculous. That would be like saying switching from carburetors to EFI was just to save fuel. You WILL save fuel but it is a byproduct of the engine PERFORMING better because it handles fuel better.
    If DI injection was necessary for performance, why did the 997.2 carrera get DI but the performance model, the 997 GT3, not get it? Why does the PI motor outperform the DI significantly? Where is the advantage? It is strictly being used for fuel economy, not for performance.

    Why doesn't the S85 have it? The S65? You don't need it for max performance and port injection is actually preferred. The DI becomes a liability as already stated.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    You say DI is old technology. This may be true, but how many sports cars, specifically ones that have been modified, are around that use DI? DI is new to the performance modding scene..... It is relatively new technology for the sports automobile that can be purchased by the average person.
    It is very old technology getting applied now for fuel economy reasons. They did not add it to boost performance, it all about efficient dynamic BS.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    You think 200cc of volume is the ultimate deciding factor? I'd say bore spacing and block strength is more important if everything else is upgraded to the max (this may go to the S54). There is a reason why people don't build super-high-boost LS7s.......
    I think if EVERYTHING was equivalent as you stated, then yes, ultimately the 200 cc's would be the deciding factor.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    Anyway, I'm tired of arguing this. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I just hate when people say they have a crystal ball and can predict the future, especially when there are new variables which could change things up. You do not KNOW, you THINK.

    In regards to stock internals vs stock internals, I believe the N54 is the more reliable, cheaper and easier engine to modify for power. Not to mention that even this early in the game it is knocking on the stock internal record of the S54, without running a ridiculously large compressor that can only be spooled with nitrous.

    By the way, do you happen to have a dyno-chart of that 700whp run, and a list of mods?
    I'm not tired of arguing this at all. One is better than the other, significantly. The S54 is a superior motor in every facet built to a much higher standard. There is no crystal ball necessary to see this.

    What variable is going to make the N54 block iron? What variable is going to make it rev to over 8,000 rpm? What variable is going to make its torque curve as flat? What variable is going to make it have the same volumetric efficiency?

    The S54 is the cheaper motor to modify right now in actuality. Good examples can be picked up for sub-20k. Build the motor, go turbo, and 800+ whp is realistic. The N54 can't do that at the moment and possibly never will.

    The stock internal record is over 700 whp as stated and Taza has that info, he is the guy to ask.

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  4. #79
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    Beep

    Sorry it is now a true car alarm that will cause older humans to die once it is set off. Very effective.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  5. #80
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    Sticky, I read somewhere that Porsche skipped Direct Injection on the 997.2 GT3 because the Port Injection system they used (straight from the race car, as they claimed) is superior to their DI technology.

    Other than that I don't know enough to really contrbute to this.

  6. #81
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    We have no idea what the n54 can do with a large compressor that doesn't turn into a flamethrower over 20 psi, the heat from the small turbos at high psi really hinder the output capabilities of this engine. Also, the n54 has a lower compression ratio than s54 if I'm correct.

  7. #82
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Also sticky, old technology doesn't get applied until decades later MANY times. The reason people do not jump on new technology and adopt it is because it costs money for the research, the equipment, etc. and would take years to outperform current technologies in their respective fields, and would be more expensive to use than current technology. Examples: gorilla glass (developed decades ago, maybe 50 years), electric motors (Ford had the blueprint for this decades ago), and now DI.

    You are claiming that DI has NO benefit and you know this for a fact somehow since you can see years of research into the future. The fact of the matter is DI is more efficient with fuel and with some years of research I am sure it will be satisfactory or better than port injection for high hp cars.

  8. #83
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, I read somewhere that Porsche skipped Direct Injection on the 997.2 GT3 because the Port Injection system they used (straight from the race car, as they claimed) is superior to their DI technology.

    Other than that I don't know enough to really contrbute to this.
    That might be part of it, I do not remember the article but would not surprise me.

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  9. #84
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by supracg Click here to enlarge
    Also sticky, old technology doesn't get applied until decades later MANY times. The reason people do not jump on new technology and adopt it is because it costs money for the research, the equipment, etc. and would take years to outperform current technologies in their respective fields, and would be more expensive to use than current technology. Examples: gorilla glass (developed decades ago, maybe 50 years), electric motors (Ford had the blueprint for this decades ago), and now DI.
    No doubt, I'm just stating production cars had this back in the 50's. It isn't something new.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by supracg Click here to enlarge
    You are claiming that DI has NO benefit and you know this for a fact somehow since you can see years of research into the future. The fact of the matter is DI is more efficient with fuel and with some years of research I am sure it will be satisfactory or better than port injection for high hp cars.
    I am not saying there is no benefit, I am saying it is primarily used due to fuel efficiency, not performance.

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  10. #85
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That might be part of it, I do not remember the article but would not surprise me.
    I should probably clarify that Porsche was saying their Port Injection system from the GT3 RSR was superior to their own Direct Injection and not that PI is superior to DI in general.

  11. #86
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    I should probably clarify that Porsche was saying their Port Injection system from the GT3 RSR was superior to their own Direct Injection and not that PI is superior to DI in general.
    Makes more sense.

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