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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    MHP S2 C63 vs C6 Corvette in Kuwait

    Unsure of the mods on the Vette, C63 has MHP LTs/Mids/Catback/v3 CDT:




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    Great vids!

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    MHP MB's are no joke!

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    The C63 sounds great!

    Do we have any idea if the C6 is an LS2 or LS3?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Very nice... Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The C63 sounds great!

    Do we have any idea if the C6 is an LS2 or LS3?
    Good question, let me ask.


    Thanks guys!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The C63 sounds great!

    Do we have any idea if the C6 is an LS2 or LS3?
    yea that would make a big difference too. i was surprised the vette kept up that much but weight is a big factor between those two! the vette is 3200 vs 3650 lbs

    Sweet video btw!
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    C63s are 3950lb cars FWIW.

    Just asked Aziz, he didn't know what year or if it was LS2/LS3 but it had:

    Headers, Catback, Intake/Filter, Tune and Cam and it was an automatic (like the C63) so I'm guessing LS2 but no confirmation.

    M156s are the new N/A top end monsters. People used to always say that about LS cars, now we have tune only C63s running faster in the standing mile than stock C6 Z06s despite the huge difference in weight and a less efficient trans.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    M156s are the new N/A top end monsters. People used to always say that about LS cars, now we have tune only C63s running faster in the standing mile than stock C6 Z06s despite the huge difference in weight and a less efficient trans.
    They are impressive up top for sure but I still do not believe they are stronger than the LS7.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They are impressive up top for sure but I still do not believe they are stronger than the LS7.
    Based on dyno numbers no, however in the real world where gearing and other factors play into it, the standing mile results do speak volumes. LS7s will always have the ability to make more peak HP/TQ I agree, but obviously that's not the entire equation. Yes the C63 is tuned vs a stock LS7 however we're also dealing with 700-800lbs more weight and a less efficient trans, less aerodynamic body, etc.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    Based on dyno numbers no, however in the real world where gearing and other factors play into it, the standing mile results do speak volumes. LS7s will always have the ability to make more peak HP/TQ I agree, but obviously that's not the entire equation. Yes the C63 is tuned vs a stock LS7 however we're also dealing with 700-800lbs more weight and a less efficient trans, less aerodynamic body, etc.
    You plan on upping displacement up to 7 liters or so, right? I can't wait to see how it stacks up then Click here to enlarge

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You plan on upping displacement up to 7 liters or so, right? I can't wait to see how it stacks up then Click here to enlarge
    Yes we plan on stroking, how quickly we do so depends on how much interest we see in the way of head/cam sales. As you know there is no quick/easy way to N/A power and it's always more expensive to make that power without a blower/turbo. If the market demands it will continue down that road. If not, off to another platform.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    Yes we plan on stroking, how quickly we do so depends on how much interest we see in the way of head/cam sales. As you know there is no quick/easy way to N/A power and it's always more expensive to make that power without a blower/turbo. If the market demands it will continue down that road. If not, off to another platform.
    Why not forced induction?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why not forced induction?
    So many reasons. I know some are still trying but there is more than one reason it won't happen, and let's not forget this exact idea was the final straw that bankrupted Kleemann of Europe. MKB tried but failed as well.

    I had plans over 2 years ago to put a set of twins on our C63, then I learned.

    Brabus is the exception to the rule and the leg up they have completely alleviates one of the main issues, however it's not available to anyone else at any price. The other hurdles, well, let's just say it's going to be fun watching Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    So many reasons. I know some are still trying but there is more than one reason it won't happen, and let's not forget this exact idea was the final straw that bankrupted Kleemann of Europe. MKB tried but failed as well.

    I had plans over 2 years ago to put a set of twins on our C63, then I learned.

    Brabus is the exception to the rule and the leg up they have completely alleviates one of the main issues, however it's not available to anyone else at any price. The other hurdles, well, let's just say it's going to be fun watching Click here to enlarge
    Well, I know of people attempting this and obviously you are aware of some Click here to enlarge

    I just don't understand what makes the M156 more complicated than the S65. To be honest, I would figure the S65 would be much more complex with individual throttle bodies and higher compression. The M156 would be one mean $#@! with some boost.

    The reason the S65 is a strong modding platform is solely due to boost being a possibly when paired with a great NA motor. Same with the S54, etc., once those motors are boosted is when they really shine and when, no offense, BMW's become much stronger than the MB's.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well, I know of people attempting this and obviously you are aware of some Click here to enlarge
    Yes but none will succeed no matter what their imaginations tell them. Click here to enlarge

    I just don't understand what makes the M156 more complicated than the S65. To be honest, I would figure the S65 would be much more complex with individual throttle bodies and higher compression. The M156 would be one mean $#@! with some boost.
    Well you have one facet of improvement vs the M156 that being DI which mitigates the higher static C/R nicely. 11.3:1 PFI < 12.0:1 DI as far as FI. M156 was supposed to be twin turbo'd from the factory, hence the 80 degree vee angle however due to the latest green/emissions movement we got stuck with a reworked 5.5L instead Click here to enlarge

    Reasons are both software and hardware related.

    I can tell you exactly why it won't happen but I'd rather sit back and watch someone else do real R&D on these motors.

    The reason the S65 is a strong modding platform is solely due to boost being a possibly when paired with a great NA motor. Same with the S54, etc., once those motors are boosted is when they really shine and when, no offense, BMW's become much stronger than the MB's.
    No doubt slapping FI on a badass N/A motor makes for the best FI motors (making necessary changes). With that being said I believe our S4 (H/C) cars will make more power and torque N/A than most FI S65s, and if not a 100 shot of spray will certainly bury what's left--all on the stock bottom end. The torque won't be comparable either. PA to PA, it's still 6.2L to 4.0L and nitrous torque > cent supercharger torque.

    Both are great motors, if only BMW gave us a 5.5L S85, that would be fun to play with.

    M156 has enough inches to allow us to make significant N/A gains that just aren't possible with the S65. Reliability is key and staying N/A we won't have any issues with that either.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    Well you have one facet of improvement vs the M156 that being DI which mitigates the higher static C/R nicely. 11.3:1 PFI < 12.0:1 DI as far as FI.
    The S65 is 12.0:1 without DI. Yes... all the more impressive Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    I can tell you exactly why it won't happen but I'd rather sit back and watch someone else do real R&D on these motors.
    I kind of want to expand on this topic though as I still don't understand what is stopping it. I still am thinking the S65 is more difficult than the M156, just that more companies seem to put out FI kits for BMW's.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    No doubt slapping FI on a badass N/A motor makes for the best FI motors (making necessary changes). With that being said I believe our S4 (H/C) cars will make more power and torque N/A than most FI S65s, and if not a 100 shot of spray will certainly bury what's left--all on the stock bottom end. The torque won't be comparable either. PA to PA, it's still 6.2L to 4.0L and nitrous torque > cent supercharger torque.
    This I do doubt, simply because you would have to be making over 600 whp NA. That is going to be tough but I believe you can do it. However, that will only get you to the stock internal M3's. Regardless, if you do hit 600 whp NA that is going to be absolutely incredible. That is basically the upper end of where the LS7's get to NA with an aggressive cam and heads.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    M156 has enough inches to allow us to make significant N/A gains that just aren't possible with the S65.
    Absolutely true, in NA form the M156 has it beat and them some in power potential.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The S65 is 12.0:1 without DI. Yes... all the more impressive Click here to enlarge
    piezo electric injection > DI. Either is superior to PFI as far as fuel atomization and both require less fuel to run safely.

    I kind of want to expand on this topic though as I still don't understand what is stopping it. I still am thinking the S65 is more difficult than the M156, just that more companies seem to put out FI kits for BMW's.
    I know you do, however I'm not going to simply because I'm not here to educate the competition. I've actually told you quite a bit about this in private if you remember. An E90 M3 is far easier to apply FI to than a M156. Like I said, we looked into it back when I had my car and would've done it however as some will learn the hard way there is far more than 1 stumbling block. One example we've talked about before is the fact there is enough room for A/F and timing changes in the MSS60 than there is in the ME9.7, you don't need a piggyback or standalone to tune for FI on a E90 M3, completely unlike the M156.

    This I do doubt, simply because you would have to be making over 600 whp NA. That is going to be tough but I believe you can do it. However, that will only get you to the stock internal M3's. Regardless, if you do hit 600 whp NA that is going to be absolutely incredible. That is basically the upper end of where the LS7's get to NA with an aggressive cam and heads.
    We won't be making 600rw with H/C on a stock 6.2 bottom end no question and definitely not on a U.S. dyno. What's the highest legit trap from a FI E90 M3? Then was it using meth and/or nitrous? Never been a fan of 2 PAs (+meth). No way will the M3 ever make anywhere near the average torque and the HP curve is what you'd expect from a centrifugal, if the car isn't in boost to start it will never catch up.

    Again dyno numbers are what they are, I just don't see a FI E90 M3 ever beating a H/C C63 with spray on the street/track unless they are running 30psi, meth, nitrous on a built lower C/R bottom end. In which case I think a 7.0L comparison would be more on par.

    We went 131mph with 125 shot with stock cams, there are going to be sizable gains with sticks.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    piezo electric injection > DI.
    For tuning and performance, totally agree.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    I know you do, however I'm not going to simply because I'm not here to educate the competition. I've actually told you quite a bit about this in private if you remember.
    I remember a little bit but I still don't grasp it entirely. I understand your position, no worries. Next time we chat explain it to me!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    What's the highest legit trap from a FI E90 M3? Then was it using meth and/or nitrous?
    Without nitrous, 131.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    I just don't see a FI E90 M3 ever beating a H/C C63 with spray on the street/track unless they are running 30psi, meth, nitrous on a built lower C/R bottom end.
    Hmm, well, hopefully we find out Click here to enlarge

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Without nitrous, 131.
    That's our N/A trap speed goal with cams. We'll see...

    Hmm, well, hopefully we find out Click here to enlarge
    Your car doesn't count Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    Your car doesn't count
    I know, I'm hoping we can get more C63's and M3's running.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge
    That's our N/A trap speed goal with cams. We'll see...
    I would sincerely like to see you guys hit it, would be a great achievement.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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