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    My version - walbro 450 LPFP

    Just wanted to share some pics about my DIY Walbro 450 bucket. I wanted clean and reliable installation and to do it myself. I'm not going on any markets with this setup and there's no improvements on flow characteristics compared to any other setup.

    All components are made out of marine/surgical grade stainless (AISI 316L). Joints are done with silver brazing. and the top connector for the venturi pipe is normally used in industrial grease/oil systems which normally have over 400 bar pressure.


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    I mean it looks good. How is it performing?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    how is it running

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    Nicely done! The stainless steel venturi looks badass! Kind of to bad you'll never see it again.
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I mean it looks good. How is it performing?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge
    Nicely done! The stainless steel venturi looks badass! Kind of to bad you'll never see it again.
    Thanks,

    I dont have test rig to get any flow numbers and I haven't got time to install it... so no logs either (yet). I did test this without any measurements, the venturi has a bit stronger suction compared to stock and the bucket was filled quite fast (I made a little bigger hole to the nozzle). Guess the outcome of the pump is about the same as any other Walbro 450.

    I also made couple of different sized restrictor plates for the venturi feed if I ever might need those... As we all know the 450 is more than capable to feed the need of hybrids which are next on my shopping list. Click here to enlarge

    That's probably not the most cost effective setup, but actually not so hard to make after all. As my first silver soldering ever I have to say it's not so difficult when you get hold on to it and the outcome is totally great... thou, removing the flux does really suck.

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Finally had some free time to work with my "projects" ...We had our second child a while ago so it's been keeping busy changing diapers and stuff.

    So, I've been making a loads of flow simulations with this setup and founded quite good performance vs. ease of manufacturing compromise. Now I'm machining very last pieces for the improved venturi & outfeed setup. My real test bench is still waiting to be put together but here's the simulation results.

    The accuracy of simulation is approx. 1-4% compared to real world testing (very high detail mesh)... There's always differences in surface roughness, test bench tolerances, temperatures, etc. but still the results are not far from real life.


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    After I've installed this new one, I'm going to return design the twin pump setup. Raw pre-design shows that the twin is capable to produce at least 550-570 LPH (145-150 GPH). So single is close to 1.35 GPM and the twin is going to be somewhere between 2.40-2.50 GPM.

    Aaaand... I've also started to draw schematics about "booster unit" which allows both pumps run simultaneously. Everything will be managed with original PWM signal. Design will allow system to run even the other pump fails. This should protect the car original wiring, improve the longevity of the pumps and prevent the pressure oscillation. Also there's an option for 15VDC boost feature so I can tickle a bit more out of my single setup.

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    First version of the circuit design is done. The "prototype" unit can support 50 Amp (continuous) current so it also means that the unit has to be placed somewhere more ventilated area than just under the backseat. Click here to enlarge

    Boost voltage can be adjusted between 14-16 Volts and the boosting is not restricted only for 1 pump use. If the boost trigger is not used, pump(s) will be running all the time with original PMW. And of course the circuit has thermal and current safety measures + fail safe 1 pump operation. So if the unit itself or 2nd of the pumps fails, the original control unit will take over (back to stock).

    The components are Automotive or Military grade. That means the operating temperature is -40 to +125 Celsius. Now I'm just considering should I keep the design just as simple as it is or should I add more features to play with... Click here to enlarge

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    very very interesting stuff!! keep going with it because you obviously have the capacity to. Lets see what else you can rig up Click here to enlarge
    2010 AW/BLK 135i VM 6465 Single Turbo w/ OCDworks Modified T51r Housing, JB4 + MHD, VRSF CP & Tial, Big Tom, Fuel-It PI + Stage 3 + Return + Ethanol Sensor, BMW PE, MFactory LSD, Spec 3+ & MFactory SMFW, RB External PCV, ADV sensors, and many more....
    RIP Click here to enlarge2008 AW/BL 135i
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    The best part of the booster unit: It's not only for N54. The PWM frequency is not an issue and you can use it even with stock unit. This is still work in progress but now it seems I'm going to dump the twin design at least for a while. Now the priority 1 is to finish this unit and test it in real life.

    Here's a good example about boosting the pump voltage (taken from the net):

    Pump X (similar to Walbro) @70psi

    13.5 Volts (182W)
    1.32 Gpm
    13.5 Amps

    14.5 Volts (205W)
    1.49 Gpm
    14.2 Amps

    15.5 Volts (230W)
    1.62 Gpm
    14.9 Amps

    16.5 Volts (250W)
    1.77 Gpm
    15.2 Amps

    17.5 Volts (278W)
    2.03 Gpm
    15.9 Amps
    Last edited by -335i-; 01-24-2015 at 09:22 AM.

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    It's been keeping busy with all the non BMW stuff. I guess I'd need some kind of boost unit for my self too to get the things ready faster Click here to enlarge ...Anyway, here's a little update about the unit.

    New circuit is basically done. The design was changed a bit and the simple control circuit has been changed to microcontroller one. for Adjustment will be done simply with three different values. The values or pictures are not from the real GUI and are only meant to show the idea of the adjustment.

    Stock PWM.
    Click here to enlarge

    Boosted PWM.
    Click here to enlarge

    Boosted max PWM.
    Click here to enlarge

    Boosted max PWM with adjusted start point.
    Click here to enlarge

    Steady PWM boost for fuel setup with return line.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Steady PWM boost for fuel setup with return line. FTW Click here to enlarge
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    Looks really good! @SteveAZ
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    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    Looks really good! @SteveAZ

    http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Accessories_pg/Boost%20A%20Pump/layouts/boostapump.htm


    I believe BMS tested this 2 or 3 years ago.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JMARS Click here to enlarge
    Steady PWM boost for fuel setup with return line. FTW Click here to enlarge
    If there's actually no need for PWM control, I'd do it with simple voltage booster. That would be very easy and dead cheap (DIY) setup... Still I'd rather do it with PWM curve instead of unnecessarily heating up the fuel.

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge
    http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/page.php?id=30184

    Yup, There's nothing so new and revolutionary here... instead of vacuum/boost tube this setup is using the original PWM control + the unit creates the basic curve by learning the incoming PWM min/max values.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by -335i- Click here to enlarge
    Yup, There's nothing so new and revolutionary here... instead of vacuum/boost tube this setup is using the original PWM control + the unit creates the basic curve by learning the incoming PWM min/max values.
    Not really sure what you are getting at here...care to elaborate?
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    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge
    Not really sure what you are getting at here...care to elaborate?
    Pump boosters has been around for a while, so I'm not saying I've invented a wheel again. But almost every unit is based on some kind of vacuum / boost / map sensor controlling. And most of them are not made for returnless systems.

    My idea is to make easily controllable one stop (as close as possible) plug&play PWM/fuel pressure controlled solution which can provide decent amount of juice even from stock unit.

    After it's complete & tested I'm going to sell the design for you..... for a price Click here to enlarge

    That's all Click here to enlarge

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    Any danger in running the higher voltage through the pump? What is it's max supported voltage?

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    IIRC bumping the voltage on the stock pump didn't net that much and installing an inline pump was cheaper and more effective. Installing our Stage 2 pump is even cleaner and easily max's out the stock HPFP. Beyond that it doesn't matter how much voltage you throw at a Stage 2 pump, you're not going to get anything more out of the HPFP. To get beyond that you're talking about installing a Stage 2 pump and bumping the voltage via the boost a pump for what I'm assuming would then be a supplemental system such as PI. If you're thinking of scaling that voltage in place of boost control, that won't accomplish the same thing as a boost referenced FPR. In addition you are looking at then installing a Stage 2 and a boost a pump, still installing an additional wiring harness, and for what probably amounts to a similar cost of running a Stage 3. Then on top of that you are now altering the signals from the EKP, adding an additional module, and splicing in to the stock wiring harness to push a single pump. Do I have that right?

    We'd prefer to leave the EKP and the DME alone to do their thing during normal driving and simply add the extra capacity on demand. In addition, if running PI on a high horsepower application, you need a true boost reference FRP because bumping voltages and providing more flow prior to the stock FPR is going to do little for pressures post FPR.

    Make sense?
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by -335i- Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    Pump boosters has been around for a while, so I'm not saying I've invented a wheel again. But almost every unit is based on some kind of vacuum / boost / map sensor controlling. And most of them are not made for returnless systems.

    My idea is to make easily controllable one stop (as close as possible) plug&play PWM/fuel pressure controlled solution which can provide decent amount of juice even from stock unit.

    After it's complete & tested I'm going to sell the design for you..... for a price Click here to enlarge

    That's all Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge
    IIRC bumping the voltage on the stock pump didn't net that much and installing an inline pump was cheaper and more effective. Installing our Stage 2 pump is even cleaner and easily max's out the stock HPFP. Beyond that it doesn't matter how much voltage you throw at a Stage 2 pump, you're not going to get anything more out of the HPFP. To get beyond that you're talking about installing a Stage 2 pump and bumping the voltage via the boost a pump for what I'm assuming would then be a supplemental system such as PI. If you're thinking of scaling that voltage in place of boost control, that won't accomplish the same thing as a boost referenced FPR. In addition you are looking at then installing a Stage 2 and a boost a pump, still installing an additional wiring harness, and for what probably amounts to a similar cost of running a Stage 3. Then on top of that you are now altering the signals from the EKP, adding an additional module, and splicing in to the stock wiring harness to push a single pump. Do I have that right?

    We'd prefer to leave the EKP and the DME alone to do their thing during normal driving and simply add the extra capacity on demand. In addition, if running PI on a high horsepower application, you need a true boost reference FRP because bumping voltages and providing more flow prior to the stock FPR is going to do little for pressures post FPR.

    Make sense?

    Oh SNAP!! Click here to enlarge
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  21. #21
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jyamona Click here to enlarge
    Any danger in running the higher voltage through the pump? What is it's max supported voltage?
    Max. supported voltage will be 18V. It's enough to keep the HPFP happy. It would be easy to provide 30V or even more. Same goes for current but I guess 100 Amp would be totally overshot. Click here to enlarge

    With higher voltage you need less current to provide same amount of power. In this case the amps will rise a bit too but you'll get more power. More power will make more heat but the bucket is filled with fuel which is cooling the pump. + if the bucket will cool 2 x 450 Walbros why wouldn't it cool single one? The boosting is active on accelerations so most of the time the pump is just idling. If there's no load there's no extra current or power.

    Different pumps will tolerate increased power differently but if the cooling is ok and the mechanical parts are properly built, there's no problems.

    Little OT: What comes to tank explosions the voltage doesn't affect for that. For the FAE you need a sparkle (bad connection inside the tank) and right F/A ratio which is 1.3% to 6%. So 15.8 gal tank could explode if there's 0.2 - 0.98 gal of fuel. Of course it would still have to be atomized, mixed with air and compressed. Gas just sitting in the tank won't explode. Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge
    IIRC bumping the voltage on the stock pump didn't net that much and installing an inline pump was cheaper and more effective.
    Sure it will not provide as much as 450, it's not E85 compatible, etc. But it will provide more fuel with voltage boost. That could be enough to keep the HPFP healthy with minor tunes.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge
    Installing our Stage 2 pump is even cleaner and easily max's out the stock HPFP. Beyond that it doesn't matter how much voltage you throw at a Stage 2 pump, you're not going to get anything more out of the HPFP.
    The stock HPFP is maxed out with 240lph, sure. But what if you could run double shotgun or PI with single Walbro450 using E85? ...controlled completely by DME.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge
    To get beyond that you're talking about installing a Stage 2 pump and bumping the voltage via the boost a pump for what I'm assuming would then be a supplemental system such as PI. If you're thinking of scaling that voltage in place of boost control, that won't accomplish the same thing as a boost referenced FPR.
    That's probably correct... hard to say because I don't have any experience about that.

    My way of thinking: DME is trying to keep the low side pressure at 72psi, if the flow increases the pressure drops and DME demand more from the LPFP >> EKP drives the PWM higher. If the max PWM @13.5V is not enough there's starvation and when it's affecting the high pressure side the DME starts to limit things on engine side.

    If there's no need for flow or there's massive spikes in fuel feed, pressure goes over 72psi and DME lower the demand. When this happens on acceleration the pump is not providing enough fuel, there's momentary starvation, pressure drops, demand goes up and same repeats again = pressure oscillation. That would be pain in the #*@ to adjust.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge
    We'd prefer to leave the EKP and the DME alone to do their thing during normal driving and simply add the extra capacity on demand. In addition, if running PI on a high horsepower application, you need a true boost reference FRP because bumping voltages and providing more flow prior to the stock FPR is going to do little for pressures post FPR.
    Actually, the unit is doing exactly that if the curve is set to do that. EKP is only needed to provide the PWM signal, nothing more. The unit is located in the trunk, so the extra wiring from the battery is about 23-60 inches. Probably the stock wiring could be fine too but that would limit the usage (13.5V x 21A = 283W | 17V x 16,6A = 283W).

    If the pressure is staying close to 72 psi and the lines flow enough it will be fine. If you try to increase flow with pressure you'll trying to fight against the DME.


    Here's a graph about supra pump test

    Click here to enlarge

    Something about boosters & pumps + there's charts too. Click here to enlarge

    http://www.roadraceengineering.com/fuelpumptechtip.htm

    http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumpguide.htm

  22. #22
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by -335i- Click here to enlarge
    Max. supported voltage will be 18V. It's enough to keep the HPFP happy. It would be easy to provide 30V or even more. Same goes for current but I guess 100 Amp would be totally overshot. Click here to enlarge

    With higher voltage you need less current to provide same amount of power. In this case the amps will rise a bit too but you'll get more power. More power will make more heat but the bucket is filled with fuel which is cooling the pump. + if the bucket will cool 2 x 450 Walbros why wouldn't it cool single one? The boosting is active on accelerations so most of the time the pump is just idling. If there's no load there's no extra current or power.

    Different pumps will tolerate increased power differently but if the cooling is ok and the mechanical parts are properly built, there's no problems.

    Little OT: What comes to tank explosions the voltage doesn't affect for that. For the FAE you need a sparkle (bad connection inside the tank) and right F/A ratio which is 1.3% to 6%. So 15.8 gal tank could explode if there's 0.2 - 0.98 gal of fuel. Of course it would still have to be atomized, mixed with air and compressed. Gas just sitting in the tank won't explode. Click here to enlarge




    Sure it will not provide as much as 450, it's not E85 compatible, etc. But it will provide more fuel with voltage boost. That could be enough to keep the HPFP healthy with minor tunes.



    The stock HPFP is maxed out with 240lph, sure. But what if you could run double shotgun or PI with single Walbro450 using E85? ...controlled completely by DME.



    That's probably correct... hard to say because I don't have any experience about that.

    My way of thinking: DME is trying to keep the low side pressure at 72psi, if the flow increases the pressure drops and DME demand more from the LPFP >> EKP drives the PWM higher. If the max PWM @13.5V is not enough there's starvation and when it's affecting the high pressure side the DME starts to limit things on engine side.

    If there's no need for flow or there's massive spikes in fuel feed, pressure goes over 72psi and DME lower the demand. When this happens on acceleration the pump is not providing enough fuel, there's momentary starvation, pressure drops, demand goes up and same repeats again = pressure oscillation. That would be pain in the #*@ to adjust.



    Actually, the unit is doing exactly that if the curve is set to do that. EKP is only needed to provide the PWM signal, nothing more. The unit is located in the trunk, so the extra wiring from the battery is about 23-60 inches. Probably the stock wiring could be fine too but that would limit the usage (13.5V x 21A = 283W | 17V x 16,6A = 283W).

    If the pressure is staying close to 72 psi and the lines flow enough it will be fine. If you try to increase flow with pressure you'll trying to fight against the DME.


    Here's a graph about supra pump test

    Click here to enlarge

    Something about boosters & pumps + there's charts too. Click here to enlarge

    http://www.roadraceengineering.com/fuelpumptechtip.htm

    http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumpguide.htm

    It sounds like you and SteveAZ need to get together and collaborate ideas and built stuff. Different approaches are good and im sure together you guys could build one hell of a efficient set up.

    BTW lots of great info on stealth316. I only hope one day the E9X/N54 will have such an informational site
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