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  1. #401
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    oh man, I feel obligated to explain. Correct, injector has plenty of flow based on communicated specs. But injector can only open as much as the DME will allow it. DME has a window which has not been altered from the stock tune. Either pressure needs to be raised and/or the window widened. Wouldn't have known this unless Tony fell short of rail target... although IDC maybe a Cobb channel (don't remember).
    If you keep saying things enough times you will actually start to believe your own sh*t Click here to enlarge

    We've tried every possible combination of HPFP targets and fuel scalar in the past and are going off of test data. Tony's already mentioned this to you in an earlier post. You always love to offer tuning advice which is fine but claiming facts and calling people out saying they're wrong when in fact those same people are out there testing in the real world day in day out is where you cross the line always. Be happy you're part of a community of vendors that actually provide you with all this data during their R&D phase, be nice! Click here to enlarge

    What's currently happening is simply HPFP pressure dropping out due to Tony's current configuration on the secondary HPFP. Once he adjusts it we'll see where it stands next.

    Keep in mind that the shotgun's never been tested with this much power/tq at high RPM yet so its a learning exercise for all of us.

    Here's my opinion on it. Had we been leaning out and went off target while HPFP pressure was staying on target I'd go after the injector duty cycle idea and maxed injectors. Right now at this time given what's happening with pressure that is way too early to conclude as there isn't enough data to pinpoint it and explain it. I for one don't believe injectors are anywhere close to being maxed but that's a guess of course.
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 09-04-2014 at 07:48 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    VTT2/RB people have done an 11 flat or 11.1 no?

    an extra 50-100hp now and wider power band? seems like 10's to me.
    Auto cars have done 11.0-11.1 many times, manual cars there aren't any examples that I know of really low 11s, maybe 1 or two at 11.3 or 11.4. 600wtq would smoke any stock 6AT out there so we're talking 6MT breaking into the 10s which is a bigger drop.

    Still, beefy clutch and some drag radials should do it, or at the least show nice 130+ trap that speaks to the power. Shiv's record and his car were pretty damn ghetto if you ask me, those videos on InsideLine were embarrassing compared to the simplicity of LostMarine's 6AT runs. I just hope the 6MT twins don't look as silly launching and going down the track as Shiv's car did.

    I'm still holding out hope that somehow we get some built autos that can hold the big torque, would love to brake boost in 2nd gear and rev it out to 7k, extra 100whp and a decent DA would surely net a run deep into the 10s.

  3. #403
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    You find the best times to say this lol
    Whoever negged me grow up.

  4. #404
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
    Auto cars have done 11.0-11.1 many times, manual cars there aren't any examples that I know of really low 11s, maybe 1 or two at 11.3 or 11.4. 600wtq would smoke any stock 6AT out there so we're talking 6MT breaking into the 10s which is a bigger drop.

    Still, beefy clutch and some drag radials should do it, or at the least show nice 130+ trap that speaks to the power. Shiv's record and his car were pretty damn ghetto if you ask me, those videos on InsideLine were embarrassing compared to the simplicity of LostMarine's 6AT runs. I just hope the 6MT twins don't look as silly launching and going down the track as Shiv's car did.

    I'm still holding out hope that somehow we get some built autos that can hold the big torque, would love to brake boost in 2nd gear and rev it out to 7k, extra 100whp and a decent DA would surely net a run deep into the 10s.
    i thought someone on here managed an 11 flat or 11.1 in a 6MT?

    just one single person mind you - i could be wrong though lol
    boop

  5. #405
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    Tony, if you'd like to try the JB for some crayon type log action go for it and I'll get a custom backend flash worked out.
    I like playing with crayons, I don't understand what's wrong with that. Click here to enlarge
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  6. #406
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    I like playing with crayons, I don't understand what's wrong with that. Click here to enlarge
    It means you shouldn't be allowed within 200 yards of an elementary school.

  7. #407
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    I like playing with crayons, I don't understand what's wrong with that. Click here to enlarge
    No, as much as I love Cobb, its embarrasing that they dont provide a simple tool to view logs. Complaining about the JB app is a bit childish imo.
    Click here to enlarge
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  8. #408
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    doesn't matter who, its what's being said... this is straight forward stuff based on data. If you take the time to read/response, hope you consider what's being said. Or you can just wait until DZ figures it out.
    Hey Josh, bumped voltage up on the secondary HPFP. Trims and AFR's right back to normal. Back to the drawing board on your theory..Click here to enlarge

  9. #409
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    i thought someone on here managed an 11 flat or 11.1 in a 6MT?

    just one single person mind you - i could be wrong though lol
    Nope, N54 MT record is held by Dzenno at 11.4. We ran an 11.6 on the 15T's and bad driving. We are hitting the track Wednesday night, a 10 second pass will go down.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Nope, N54 MT record is held by Dzenno at 11.4. We ran an 11.6 on the 15T's and bad driving. We are hitting the track Wednesday night, a 10 second pass will go down.
    +1, looked on and off this morning and he's the fastest published time. It takes a lot of $$$ and time to drag the 6MT well, the axles, clutch, slicks, NLS, 2-Step (lockdown kit?) and practice all have to work together at the same time...

    No wonder people do roll-racing so much, sheesh.

  11. #411
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    No, as much as I love Cobb, its embarrasing that they dont provide a simple tool to view logs. Complaining about the JB app is a bit childish imo.
    Recently moved from a JB4/BBFlash setup to a Cobb setup (that's another discussion that I won't get into here)--and you're right, it'd be nice if Cobb provided some sort of log review tool.

    For the past week or two I've been using ProRaceTools' MapTools application (no link provided as I don't know their vendor status) to review my Cobb logs and I'm quite impressed. The developer is extremely responsive to any issues or feature suggestions and it makes for a nice tool. The current beta allows for loading of multiple logs at one time and overlay to view deltas as a result of map changes. Highly recommended!

    Screenshot (nevermind the ridiculous throttle closure--I just calibrated my WG actuators and am in the process of sorting my boost control):
    Click here to enlarge

  12. #412
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    Honestly Datazap is the most convenient logging tool out there, its free, its online based so it doesn't matter what computer you are on, if you keep everything in dropbox like we do, you can view logs in detail from ANYWHERE, even some internet cafe in Asia if you want, people want something easier and more convenient than that????

  13. #413
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Honestly Datazap is the most convenient logging tool out there, its free, its online based so it doesn't matter what computer you are on, if you keep everything in dropbox like we do, you can view logs in detail from ANYWHERE, even some internet cafe in Asia if you want, people want something easier and more convenient than that????
    I still use datazap to share logs, but I find MapTools to be faster and more powerful for reviewing my own logs.

    Not sure I understand your point re. Dropbox and datazap--once the files are on datazap you can download them directly. To that end, however, I keep all of my logs on Dropbox so they can be accessed and reviewed via MapTools on whatever computer I'm using (forgot to mention it works on PC and Mac).

    The true advantage of MapTools to me is the ability to manually scale and edit individual parameters then save them as a template. With datazap one needs to edit the .csv file in order to cap the AFR and get boost/requested boost on the same scale. Plus this lets you choose your own colors--can't tell you how many times I've hit "Reload" with datazap just to get a different palette.

    By the by I have absolutely no association with ProRaceTools, I'm only recommending here as the subject came up and it doesn't seem too well-known.

  14. #414
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EvanL Click here to enlarge
    I still use datazap to share logs, but I find MapTools to be faster and more powerful for reviewing my own logs.

    Not sure I understand your point re. Dropbox and datazap--once the files are on datazap you can download them directly. To that end, however, I keep all of my logs on Dropbox so they can be accessed via MapTools on whatever computer I'm using (forgot to mention it works on PC and Mac).

    The true advantage of MapTools to me is the ability to manually scale and edit individual parameters then save them as a template. With datazap one needs to edit the .csv file in order to cap the AFR and get boost/requested boost on the same scale. Plus this lets you choose your own colors--can't tell you how many times I've hit "Reload" with datazap just to get a different palette.
    Your average user will never use any of that, tuners of course will, my point is, to the normal end users complaining Cobb doesn't offer a log viewing tool, there are many free tools out there that work well Datazap is at the top of the list

  15. #415
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Your average user will never use any of that, tuners of course will, my point is, to the normal end users complaining Cobb doesn't offer a log viewing tool, there are many free tools out there that work well Datazap is at the top of the list
    Yeah, you're probably right to that end. Different strokes for different folks.

  16. #416
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Hey Josh, bumped voltage up on the secondary HPFP. Trims and AFR's right back to normal. Back to the drawing board on your theory..Click here to enlarge
    Yes of course, as expected... the point is that there's multiple causes for not meeting AFR target in this case.

  17. #417
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    You find the best times to say this lol
    Don't give me any credit, there is so much drama I'm given lots of opportunities.
    Click here to enlarge
    Join the largest N5X Enthusiasts Group! 1200+ Members Strong!
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  18. #418
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    We are hitting the track Wednesday night, a 10 second pass will go down.
    Click here to enlarge hope you are right! very interested to see this!
    2008 e92 335i: JB4 G5 ISO/BMS back end flash, fbo, e85, inlets, Rb turbos, level 10 valve body + converter, water/methanol.....and a lot more....

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    Anyone know how accurate the IDC is as logged per Cobb? I know it has the ability to log IDC for each cylinder. After that, getting IPW is as simple as another formula: (IDC is in %, and IPW in ms)

    IDC = [IPW * RPM]/1200
    or
    IPW = (IDC*1200) / RPM

    Not sure how useful they'll be, but it might help further troubleshoot any more fueling headaches down the road related to injection window, etc.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Your average user will never use any of that, tuners of course will, my point is, to the normal end users complaining Cobb doesn't offer a log viewing tool, there are many free tools out there that work well Datazap is at the top of the list
    Well it was Dzenno who dropped some remark towards the JB4 app, yes everyone can use Datazap (and as a Cobb user I (have to) do as well...
    Click here to enlarge
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  21. #421
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ray Pampena Click here to enlarge
    Well, again i am not a turbo builder. (yes i did assemble them) I do know the TD04s run close to a 2:1 aspect ratio which is poor but still perform relatively well. The wheels in Dons car are spot on HP wise to what i see in a 3000GT so those TD03 hosings are not doing too bad. I wouldnt expect the longevity to be different either since the power is the same. Im sure the turbos you have coming out will be built the same way and you will consider them safe to run. We got this thing together without trying to set the world on fire and it just so happened to break a record.. which i think is really cool. The upgraded thrust is key to keeping them alive for a long time since that is the main thing that wears out.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ray Pampena Click here to enlarge
    This stuff is worth going over. Im sure that you guys are seeing 3:1 on turbos that are not running too efficiently. Theres so many things that come into play that create that aspect ratio FAR more than exhaust housing size! ANYTHING that makes a turbo more efficient will chip away at lowering that ratio. That ratio is created by how much work that the turbo has to do in the first place. I better flowing compressor wheel SURE DOES lower the ratio as well as a better flowing compressor wheel.

    Ill list some examples while im in the posting mood.. lets take the 3:1 that you are seeing. thats 60psi ex pressure to run the 20psi manifold. Why do all different setups on cars make different power at the same boost levels? its ALL done by improving apon that exhaust pressure.
    flow more air with a better compressor.. make that same boost at a lower shaft speed which means less ex pressure to run the turbo. Run a better turbine wheel.. the shaft speed will be able to remain the same while dropping ex pressure once again. increase intake flow so you are not making boost from a vacuum.. drop ex pressure once again. install free flowing exhaust so the pressure drop across the turbine is going for X to zero.. drop ex pressure even more. Then, youll get closer to 2:1 like my car wich makes 700 on TD04s and Dons car is definitly approaching 2:1 also due to it making 600WHP at 25psi on smaller parts than i have in mine. It would be safe to say that it is currently the most efficient turbo set on these cars. Hopefully it jumpstarts everyone to do some new stuff.

    People have been telling me the same thing for years on the 3000s.. how you cant make over 500whp.. then 600whp.. and now 700whp on TD04s lol. Dons car with TD03 housings is actually making slightly more WHP than a 3000 with the same turbo but TD04 housings.
    a car with precision CEA billets would be a 1:1 and make 850whp at 25psi. This stuff really isnt new to me and the results are no different than what ive seen and expected.

  23. #423
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Ray, I appreciate the post, I just need to say, you are posting like we are a kid on the forums, we have been in the turbocharger business since 1978, if its one thing we know its turbochargers, thuis is far from new to us as well. We have ran 19T's on these turbos as you are now, we didn't push them very hard as they were on pump fuel, but the BP levels were still unacceptable, in other words, it made little difference, next yes we are also running 9 blade turbines, also made little difference in bp over a normal MHI 12 blade, yes we tested them both back to back. The 9 blades pick up power up top, but BP levels were nearly identical. So while I agree with you that yes ANYTHING can hellp bring the ratios down, these housings are tiny, at these levels, they are going to be at the 3:1 level no matter WHAT wheel combo you want to throw in the housings, we know this from experience with these turbos on this platform. I 100% respect what you have done with the 3000GT's but we see person after person jump on these forums from other platforms and try to apply what they are doing to it, it rarely works as these cars are their own beast. We will be doing more testing in the next couple weeks or so with the bigger wheels now that we have the capability to run 100% E85 because fueling with meth is not something we like to do.

    For the person above who is interested in these turbos. After thorough testing of our turbos with the 19T's if the results are positive and we determine the turbos will live a reasonable amount of time. We will be offering a billet 19T option for our Stage 2's as well(this was always going to be done, we just happened to be starting the testing the same time this was posted). The machining process is more involved as the snout needs to be machined off, a bigger one welded on, then remachined, expect a premium over the standard stage 2 price. Results with data will be posted soon.
    I'm glad you found a combo that DOES lower the back pressure ratio. It is the only way to make the power Click here to enlarge

    I see you are near 2:1 now

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    After reviewing this thread I just noticed he is on stock fueling system just a inline pump? Tony mentioned something about maxing out at 500whp with even E50 so not sure how he hit 605 unless this is just a freak of nature? lol

    Anybody help me out?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by natedog7700 Click here to enlarge
    After reviewing this thread I just noticed he is on stock fueling system just a inline pump? Tony mentioned something about maxing out at 500whp with even E50 so not sure how he hit 605 unless this is just a freak of nature? lol

    Anybody help me out?
    Pump and meth with upgraded inline lpfp, that's all you need, the meth is the key

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