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  1. #376
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    It will happen as soon as we get this car back to track and don't break the clutch on our second run...Click here to enlarge
    Sweet! Hopefully nothing else breaks either, ahem...axles lol. or did you beef them up already?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    It will happen as soon as we get this car back to track and don't break the clutch on our second run...Click here to enlarge
    You're going to need a JB4 in the mix for good boost control. Duty cycle tuning is OK for dyno stuff but on the road its sketchy to say the least. Just run a JB4 for the boost profile and let Dzenno custom do your back end flash. Best of both worlds. Click here to enlarge
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  3. #378
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    Congrats.....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    You're going to need a JB4 in the mix for good boost control. Duty cycle tuning is OK for dyno stuff but on the road its sketchy to say the least. Just run a JB4 for the boost profile and let Dzenno custom do your back end flash. Best of both worlds. Click here to enlarge
    Let's live in peace for once lol
    Click here to enlarge

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    Pretty sure this thread has nothing to do with PTF so you are the one thread stalking looking for an argument. This guy tuned his turbos on a jb so Terry belongs in here you on the other hand not so much. The stack works get the $#@! over it even you guys stack with aem at this point so it's really funny how you thread jack everything.
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  6. #381
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    You're going to need a JB4 in the mix for good boost control. Duty cycle tuning is OK for dyno stuff but on the road its sketchy to say the least. Just run a JB4 for the boost profile and let Dzenno custom do your back end flash. Best of both worlds. Click here to enlarge
    Amen, the JB4 is one of the best tools.
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    Well I got kicked out of Tony’s thread… he does give a bunch of data (meant to say has fallen short in HP).

    Anyway, comparing these 2 setups would be very interesting if the OP is not using meth… you on meth?

    Tony’s fueling may improve with more pressure, but the rail has not “lost” pressure… its holding but under target. When this happens the DME makes up the difference with IPW but since they are short of AFR target and holding pressure it seems the DME has run out of injector window. So the setpoint is relatively small (based on injector flow data) and could easily be changed finding the right ROM table.

    DZ needs to up the pressure setpoint (maybe 2500psi) to allow more room for error in rail pressure.
    This is the responsibility of the tuner though… at least in understand the situation.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Well I got kicked out of Tony’s thread… he does give a bunch of data (meant to say has fallen short in HP).

    Anyway, comparing these 2 setups would be very interesting if the OP is not using meth… you on meth?

    Tony’s fueling may improve with more pressure, but the rail has not “lost” pressure… its holding but under target. When this happens the DME makes up the difference with IPW but since they are short of AFR target and holding pressure it seems the DME has run out of injector window. So the setpoint is relatively small (based on injector flow data) and could easily be changed finding the right ROM table.

    DZ needs to up the pressure setpoint (maybe 2500psi) to allow more room for error in rail pressure.
    This is the responsibility of the tuner though… at least in understand the situation.
    The rail hasn't lost pressure, dude you might have downs, its possible. The pressure is down to 1200psi, thats a pressure loss (you do remember that sensor is in the rail right), here you are again, the guy with not a single tuning record under his belt arguing with the guy that holds almost all of them in Dzenno, and now telling us the people who blew up like 20 HPFP's developing a HPFP system, and perfecting it so it works as it should that we do not know what going on with our HPFP. How about this, you just post up 1 ONE log of you making anything close to 550WHP which is easily possible on normal stage 2 style turbos, then we can talk about your tuning. As far as upping the rail pressure, it has ZERO effect when the HPFP cannot keep up, it will not allow for more error in rail pressure, how do we know this, countless hours of tuning, and testing. Also since when have we fell short of the HP, we have held almost every record exclusively for a long time, give or take a few WHP. Everything you claim is never accurate and you are only "expert" tuner I know that has no one running your tune, and no data to back up anything you say. Yes I kicked you out of my thread, but if you continue to spread nonsense I will come over here and answer you.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    The rail hasn't lost pressure, dude you might have downs, its possible. The pressure is down to 1200psi, thats a pressure loss (you do remember that sensor is in the rail right), here you are again, the guy with not a single tuning record under his belt arguing with the guy that holds almost all of them in Dzenno, and now telling us the people who blew up like 20 HPFP's developing a HPFP system, and perfecting it so it works as it should that we do not know what going on with our HPFP. How about this, you just post up 1 ONE log of you making anything close to 550WHP which is easily possible on normal stage 2 style turbos, then we can talk about your tuning. As far as upping the rail pressure, it has ZERO effect when the HPFP cannot keep up, it will not allow for more error in rail pressure, how do we know this, countless hours of tuning, and testing. Also since when have we fell short of the HP, we have held almost every record exclusively for a long time, give or take a few WHP. Everything you claim is never accurate and you are only "expert" tuner I know that has no one running your tune, and no data to back up anything you say. Yes I kicked you out of my thread, but if you continue to spread nonsense I will come over here and answer you.
    Look Tony, you meeting pressure setpoint may get you back to AFR BUT these logs are good insight into potential further issues… especially with ethanol. Hopefully you are trying to understand what I’m explaining, and don’t defer 100% to one theory. These stage 2s are using more fuel then your stg 3s.

    Trims will max when rail cannot hold pressure, thus my “lost” term. When holding some pressure (as you are), trims are the diff from base fueling. These logs are maxed, because DME cannot compensate in IPW, which is a new issue to me. Everything I have seen DME can make up any pressure difference as long as you are holding some pressure.

    Remember this when you are meeting 1700psi rail, but are still short of AFR target… what’s happening then. Better to be ahead of potential issues then to have to scramble to tackle them unexpectedly.

    I’m a shade tree tuner, tinker and do not build any products or market my services… I review data out of curiosity and like seeing vendors move forward in designs, HP, whatever for use in my single car enjoyment. Because I don’t have an xHP car or record, doesn’t mean I don’t understand how something works.

    BTW: You can test my theory by setting 1200psi in the DME and holding this pressure with more HPFP flow and see if trims max again.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    The rail hasn't lost pressure, dude you might have downs, its possible.
    Don't insult people with down syndrome...not cool.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Look Tony, you meeting pressure setpoint may get you back to AFR BUT these logs are good insight into potential further issues… especially with ethanol. Hopefully you are trying to understand what I’m explaining, and don’t defer 100% to one theory. These stage 2s are using more fuel then your stg 3s.

    Trims will max when rail cannot hold pressure, thus my “lost” term. When holding some pressure (as you are), trims are the diff from base fueling. These logs are maxed, because DME cannot compensate in IPW, which is a new issue to me. Everything I have seen DME can make up any pressure difference as long as you are holding some pressure.

    Remember this when you are meeting 1700psi rail, but are still short of AFR target… what’s happening then. Better to be ahead of potential issues then to have to scramble to tackle them unexpectedly.

    I’m a shade tree tuner, tinker and do not build any products or market my services… I review data out of curiosity and like seeing vendors move forward in designs, HP, whatever for use in my single car enjoyment. Because I don’t have an xHP car or record, doesn’t mean I don’t understand how something works.

    BTW: You can test my theory by setting 1200psi in the DME and holding this pressure with more HPFP flow and see if trims max again.
    I understand what you're stating, but wonder if it's still applicable for dual HPFP's, one of which is (I think) overspeeding. It may very well be that the fuel valve into the second HPFP is not all the way open and you don't see the HPFP crashing because it ISN'T crashing like a regular old HPFP running out of fuel would; it's just flowing as much as it can with the valve open as far as it is. The ECU would be sending the signal for full open were it just 1 HPFP, but I would conjecture that maybe that's a little different with 2 HPFP's, especially since Tony alluded to needing a higher voltage item to get more flow.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Look Tony, you meeting pressure setpoint may get you back to AFR BUT these logs are good insight into potential further issues… especially with ethanol. Hopefully you are trying to understand what I’m explaining, and don’t defer 100% to one theory. These stage 2s are using more fuel then your stg 3s.

    Trims will max when rail cannot hold pressure, thus my “lost” term. When holding some pressure (as you are), trims are the diff from base fueling. These logs are maxed, because DME cannot compensate in IPW, which is a new issue to me. Everything I have seen DME can make up any pressure difference as long as you are holding some pressure.

    Remember this when you are meeting 1700psi rail, but are still short of AFR target… what’s happening then. Better to be ahead of potential issues then to have to scramble to tackle them unexpectedly.

    I’m a shade tree tuner, tinker and do not build any products or market my services… I review data out of curiosity and like seeing vendors move forward in designs, HP, whatever for use in my single car enjoyment. Because I don’t have an xHP car or record, doesn’t mean I don’t understand how something works.

    BTW: You can test my theory by setting 1200psi in the DME and holding this pressure with more HPFP flow and see if trims max again.
    Josh, no offense bro, you could prove to me that you wrote the bible and I wouldn't listen to a word you are saying. From my two plus yeas on this platform all I have seen you do is come on the forums and tell everyone who will listen that you know what they are doing wrong, and you can tune better, yet never one graph, never one car on the dyno, never anything. Now you come in here and tell everyone you guarantee the turbos are different design, look at the graph, no way they are using similar turbines etc, proven wrong yet again. Dzenno is a better tuner than you, and has proven it with actual results from real people. I appreciate your feedback, but not interested in your help until you can prove you have done something on this platform, no offense man.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
    Don't insult people with down syndrome...not cool.
    I highly doubt anyone with Downs would have intimate knowledge of HPFP systems or N54 tuning, hence why I made the comparison to Josh Boody, comparing someone with downs to Josh Boody may actually be an insult to the person with downs you are right, for that I apologize.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
    Maybe now a stock frame turbo N54 can break into the 10s!
    Now? Definitely.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Josh, no offense bro, you could prove to me that you wrote the bible and I wouldn't listen to a word you are saying. From my two plus yeas on this platform all I have seen you do is come on the forums and tell everyone who will listen that you know what they are doing wrong, and you can tune better, yet never one graph, never one car on the dyno, never anything. Now you come in here and tell everyone you guarantee the turbos are different design, look at the graph, no way they are using similar turbines etc, proven wrong yet again. Dzenno is a better tuner than you, and has proven it with actual results from real people. I appreciate your feedback, but not interested in your help until you can prove you have done something on this platform, no offense man.
    doesn't matter who, its what's being said... this is straight forward stuff based on data. If you take the time to read/response, hope you consider what's being said. Or you can just wait until DZ figures it out.

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    I like boobies.
    Click here to enlarge
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    Honestly if the data was recorded in a simple JB4 log showing trims, fuel pressure high and low, etc, all in one trace it would be a whole lot easier to analyze. Click here to enlarge

    Tony if I send up a JB4 to play around with would you use it? I can send the TMAP adapter but you'd need to source an N20 TMAP sensor. It would make dialing these turbos in as well as pulling tuning data *a lot* easier. Dzenno would still setup the timing and AFR on the back end flash map as he wants.
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  18. #393
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    I like boobies.
    You find the best times to say this lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SCGT Click here to enlarge
    I understand what you're stating, but wonder if it's still applicable for dual HPFP's, one of which is (I think) overspeeding. It may very well be that the fuel valve into the second HPFP is not all the way open and you don't see the HPFP crashing because it ISN'T crashing like a regular old HPFP running out of fuel would; it's just flowing as much as it can with the valve open as far as it is. The ECU would be sending the signal for full open were it just 1 HPFP, but I would conjecture that maybe that's a little different with 2 HPFP's, especially since Tony alluded to needing a higher voltage item to get more flow.
    With the valve more open Tony will get higher pressure and this will help but there's 2 causes here... IPW and rail pressure. DME has a certain injection window, which we do not know... we can log IPW but we don't know the window which determines IDC... in time this gets smaller with rpm of course. In ALL cases I have seen the rail could be at 1,000psi... I'm sure Terry has a bunch of these logs... and DME will meet fuel target as long as you can keep the rail pressurized. I'm not a fluid dynamics guy so I can't explain in technical terms what's happening, but its easier to maintain a lower pressure at a higher volume. When trims max due to pressure its due to a chain reaction... injectors open more to compensate and more pressure is lost and you see a steep downward slope in pressure. IPW limit may have been reached before but this theory wasn't considered. Many n54s are running around a few 100psi off DME rail target without issue.

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    I am a fluids guy. The pump crashing is different than the pump pressure dropping because pump inlet is throttled. I'm saying you don't know what that second scenario will look like in a log; I can tell you it's likely different than the first, which is why I think your statement may not apply. Time will tell.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
    Maybe now a stock frame turbo N54 can break into the 10s!
    VTT2/RB people have done an 11 flat or 11.1 no?

    an extra 50-100hp now and wider power band? seems like 10's to me.
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Well I got kicked out of Tony’s thread… he does give a bunch of data (meant to say has fallen short in HP).

    Anyway, comparing these 2 setups would be very interesting if the OP is not using meth… you on meth?

    Tony’s fueling may improve with more pressure, but the rail has not “lost” pressure… its holding but under target. When this happens the DME makes up the difference with IPW but since they are short of AFR target and holding pressure it seems the DME has run out of injector window. So the setpoint is relatively small (based on injector flow data) and could easily be changed finding the right ROM table.

    DZ needs to up the pressure setpoint (maybe 2500psi) to allow more room for error in rail pressure.
    This is the responsibility of the tuner though… at least in understand the situation.
    wtf are you talking about... injector maxed out? :/

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    With the valve more open Tony will get higher pressure and this will help but there's 2 causes here... IPW and rail pressure. DME has a certain injection window, which we do not know... we can log IPW but we don't know the window which determines IDC... in time this gets smaller with rpm of course. In ALL cases I have seen the rail could be at 1,000psi... I'm sure Terry has a bunch of these logs... and DME will meet fuel target as long as you can keep the rail pressurized. I'm not a fluid dynamics guy so I can't explain in technical terms what's happening, but its easier to maintain a lower pressure at a higher volume. When trims max due to pressure its due to a chain reaction... injectors open more to compensate and more pressure is lost and you see a steep downward slope in pressure. IPW limit may have been reached before but this theory wasn't considered. Many n54s are running around a few 100psi off DME rail target without issue.
    the specs of the injectors are available on conti's website and shouldn't be anywhere close to maxing out YET.

    not at these RPM's (wide enough injection window) and flows (again, wide enough injection window basically)
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    wtf are you talking about... injector maxed out? :/



    the specs of the injectors are available on conti's website and shouldn't be anywhere close to maxing out YET.

    not at these RPM's (wide enough injection window) and flows (again, wide enough injection window basically)
    oh man, I feel obligated to explain. Correct, injector has plenty of flow based on communicated specs. But injector can only open as much as the DME will allow it. DME has a window which has not been altered from the stock tune. Either pressure needs to be raised and/or the window widened. Wouldn't have known this unless Tony fell short of rail target... although IDC maybe a Cobb channel (don't remember).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    oh man, I feel obligated to explain. Correct, injector has plenty of flow based on communicated specs. But injector can only open as much as the DME will allow it. DME has a window which has not been altered from the stock tune. Either pressure needs to be raised and/or the window widened. Wouldn't have known this unless Tony fell short of rail target... although IDC maybe a Cobb channel (don't remember).
    DME would logically be set to the injectors specifications..
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Honestly if the data was recorded in a simple JB4 log showing trims, fuel pressure high and low, etc, all in one trace it would be a whole lot easier to analyze. Click here to enlarge

    Tony if I send up a JB4 to play around with would you use it? I can send the TMAP adapter but you'd need to source an N20 TMAP sensor. It would make dialing these turbos in as well as pulling tuning data *a lot* easier. Dzenno would still setup the timing and AFR on the back end flash map as he wants.
    What's hard to analyze? Don't start please lol

    Tony, if you'd like to try the JB for some crayon type log action go for it and I'll get a custom backend flash worked out.
    Click here to enlarge

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