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  1. #151
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    my 2 cars.. TD04 car..


    twin 6262 car.. both same boost

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    You guys should build these for us, I would be the first to buy a set that can hold 600whp in such a clean package Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by continue5 Click here to enlarge
    You guys should build these for us, I would be the first to buy a set that can hold 600whp in such a clean package Click here to enlarge
    I agree it would be great but with going to a same turbo as the 3000 GT would mean going to a TD04 housing and with this you need to still design and fit a new manifold which will in turn raise the cost of the kit to a similar price to that of a single turbo and givin the more overall potential for big and top end power of a single turbo, and the low end/high TQ that it saves our 6AT's the kits would be similar in price but not so big of an end game. The benefit of turbos like the RB or Vargas is you can still utilize stock housings with manifold so you remove the need to design and fit a custom ex manifold, which in turn keeps cost down. unless the exact same set that blue is running would be made but as always would require some tuning to same some of our unbuilt platform components, though an excellent solution for 6MT cars. (if I have this correct)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ray Pampena Click here to enlarge
    This stuff is worth going over. Im sure that you guys are seeing 3:1 on turbos that are not running too efficiently. Theres so many things that come into play that create that aspect ratio FAR more than exhaust housing size! ANYTHING that makes a turbo more efficient will chip away at lowering that ratio. That ratio is created by how much work that the turbo has to do in the first place. I better flowing compressor wheel SURE DOES lower the ratio as well as a better flowing compressor wheel.

    Ill list some examples while im in the posting mood.. lets take the 3:1 that you are seeing. thats 60psi ex pressure to run the 20psi manifold. Why do all different setups on cars make different power at the same boost levels? its ALL done by improving apon that exhaust pressure.
    flow more air with a better compressor.. make that same boost at a lower shaft speed which means less ex pressure to run the turbo. Run a better turbine wheel.. the shaft speed will be able to remain the same while dropping ex pressure once again. increase intake flow so you are not making boost from a vacuum.. drop ex pressure once again. install free flowing exhaust so the pressure drop across the turbine is going for X to zero.. drop ex pressure even more. Then, youll get closer to 2:1 like my car wich makes 700 on TD04s and Dons car is definitly approaching 2:1 also due to it making 600WHP at 25psi on smaller parts than i have in mine. It would be safe to say that it is currently the most efficient turbo set on these cars. Hopefully it jumpstarts everyone to do some new stuff.

    People have been telling me the same thing for years on the 3000s.. how you cant make over 500whp.. then 600whp.. and now 700whp on TD04s lol. Dons car with TD03 housings is actually making slightly more WHP than a 3000 with the same turbo but TD04 housings.
    a car with precision CEA billets would be a 1:1 and make 850whp at 25psi. This stuff really isnt new to me and the results are no different than what ive seen and expected.
    Ray, I appreciate the post, I just need to say, you are posting like we are a kid on the forums, we have been in the turbocharger business since 1978, if its one thing we know its turbochargers, thuis is far from new to us as well. We have ran 19T's on these turbos as you are now, we didn't push them very hard as they were on pump fuel, but the BP levels were still unacceptable, in other words, it made little difference, next yes we are also running 9 blade turbines, also made little difference in bp over a normal MHI 12 blade, yes we tested them both back to back. The 9 blades pick up power up top, but BP levels were nearly identical. So while I agree with you that yes ANYTHING can hellp bring the ratios down, these housings are tiny, at these levels, they are going to be at the 3:1 level no matter WHAT wheel combo you want to throw in the housings, we know this from experience with these turbos on this platform. I 100% respect what you have done with the 3000GT's but we see person after person jump on these forums from other platforms and try to apply what they are doing to it, it rarely works as these cars are their own beast. We will be doing more testing in the next couple weeks or so with the bigger wheels now that we have the capability to run 100% E85 because fueling with meth is not something we like to do.

    For the person above who is interested in these turbos. After thorough testing of our turbos with the 19T's if the results are positive and we determine the turbos will live a reasonable amount of time. We will be offering a billet 19T option for our Stage 2's as well(this was always going to be done, we just happened to be starting the testing the same time this was posted). The machining process is more involved as the snout needs to be machined off, a bigger one welded on, then remachined, expect a premium over the standard stage 2 price. Results with data will be posted soon.

  5. #155
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by djpaulie Click here to enlarge
    I agree it would be great but with going to a same turbo as the 3000 GT would mean going to a TD04 housing and with this you need to still design and fit a new manifold which will in turn raise the cost of the kit to a similar price to that of a single turbo and givin the more overall potential for big and top end power of a single turbo, and the low end/high TQ that it saves our 6AT's the kits would be similar in price but not so big of an end game. The benefit of turbos like the RB or Vargas is you can still utilize stock housings with manifold so you remove the need to design and fit a custom ex manifold, which in turn keeps cost down. unless the exact same set that blue is running would be made but as always would require some tuning to same some of our unbuilt platform components, though an excellent solution for 6MT cars. (if I have this correct)
    I am only using 3000GT comparos to show you guys what can be done with the TD04 center sections and wheels. Dons blue car is making the same as and even better power than a 3000Gt with the same wheels but in the TD03 housings that you guys all run. It does not seem the housings that you guys have are hurting the power compared to full td04s.

  6. #156
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Ray, I appreciate the post, I just need to say, you are posting like we are a kid on the forums, we have been in the turbocharger business since 1978, if its one thing we know its turbochargers, thuis is far from new to us as well. We have ran 19T's on these turbos as you are now, we didn't push them very hard as they were on pump fuel, but the BP levels were still unacceptable, in other words, it made little difference, next yes we are also running 9 blade turbines, also made little difference in bp over a normal MHI 12 blade, yes we tested them both back to back. The 9 blades pick up power up top, but BP levels were nearly identical. So while I agree with you that yes ANYTHING can hellp bring the ratios down, these housings are tiny, at these levels, they are going to be at the 3:1 level no matter WHAT wheel combo you want to throw in the housings, we know this from experience with these turbos on this platform. I 100% respect what you have done with the 3000GT's but we see person after person jump on these forums from other platforms and try to apply what they are doing to it, it rarely works as these cars are their own beast. We will be doing more testing in the next couple weeks or so with the bigger wheels now that we have the capability to run 100% E85 because fueling with meth is not something we like to do.

    For the person above who is interested in these turbos. After thorough testing of our turbos with the 19T's if the results are positive and we determine the turbos will live a reasonable amount of time. We will be offering a billet 19T option for our Stage 2's as well(this was always going to be done, we just happened to be starting the testing the same time this was posted). The machining process is more involved as the snout needs to be machined off, a bigger one welded on, then remachined, expect a premium over the standard stage 2 price. Results with data will be posted soon.
    Well I'm not here selling turbos.. just giving info. I'm sure you know your stuff. How did we just make 600whp through the tiny TD03 housings at only 25psi? They are working just like they would on a 3000. If you guys think I'm crazy.. carry on! I just know that if I had one of these cars I'd be making over 650whp with the housings you guys have.

    I wanted to add that I am not speculating or bench racing.. If I was talking theory then yes.. This bmw is not like the 3000. But.. we put some turbos in with the same wheels that make about 500whp in a 3000 and it made just under 600whp in this bmw with your small housings. I am impressed and It sure is worth sharing
    Last edited by Ray Pampena; 08-28-2014 at 02:00 PM. Reason: added info

  7. #157
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ray Pampena Click here to enlarge
    Well I'm not here selling turbos.. just giving info. I'm sure you know your stuff. How did we just make 600whp through the tiny TD03 housings at only 25psi? They are working just like they would on a 3000. If you guys think I'm crazy.. carry on! I just know that if I had one of these cars I'd be making over 650whp with the housings you guys have.
    I like you, stay forever and welcome
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  8. #158
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Njz Click here to enlarge
    I like you, stay forever and welcome
    Haha thanks.. These are really cool cars. Don sparked my interest. The above dyno figure for the 3000 is 560. It won't let me edit it

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by djpaulie Click here to enlarge
    I agree it would be great but with going to a same turbo as the 3000 GT would mean going to a TD04 housing and with this you need to still design and fit a new manifold which will in turn raise the cost of the kit to a similar price to that of a single turbo and givin the more overall potential for big and top end power of a single turbo, and the low end/high TQ that it saves our 6AT's the kits would be similar in price but not so big of an end game. The benefit of turbos like the RB or Vargas is you can still utilize stock housings with manifold so you remove the need to design and fit a custom ex manifold, which in turn keeps cost down. unless the exact same set that blue is running would be made but as always would require some tuning to same some of our unbuilt platform components, though an excellent solution for 6MT cars. (if I have this correct)
    I don't believe that is what is happening here... pretty sure they took an already upgraded set of stock turbos by RB Turbo and upgraded a few things he thought needed upgrading from past experience to get he results he got here.. ?

    The stock housing does seem like it would be way too tiny for the power levels but then again.. there was a guy on n54 tech that chopped off his stock turbos and fabbed up a PT 6262 using the stock manifolds.. Last he posted it was running well.. not quite sure what kind of power he makes though.
    :
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  10. #160
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by continue5 Click here to enlarge
    I don't believe that is what is happening here... pretty sure they took an already upgraded set of stock turbos by RB Turbo and upgraded a few things he thought needed upgrading from past experience to get he results he got here.. ?

    The stock housing does seem like it would be way too tiny for the power levels but then again.. there was a guy on n54 tech that chopped off his stock turbos and fabbed up a PT 6262 using the stock manifolds.. Last he posted it was running well.. not quite sure what kind of power he makes though.
    :
    http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps70c95b60.jpghttp://i982.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps30tvnnmf.jpg
    LOL This is AWESOME! Click here to enlarge

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    Ray,

    Just to clear everything up, I am not trying to come off as rude in any way. Just from looking over your stuff, you know what you are doing which goes a long way. Just a little gun shy as I said we have people popping in from other platforms all the time, usually its on the tuning end, and they tell everyone how much power is being left on the table and they are tuning gurus for X platform and they are going to show everyone whats up. They forget that people who are just as talented have been working on the platform for years, and already understands all the limits, etc. They always tune a car or two and disappear because this hidden power they told everyone was there, well wasn't there. Going from a 15T to the 19T is the natural progression and is something we tested over a year and found it worked well but we never pushed hard as we dont like meth and hadn't finished our HPFP upgrade yet. Coming from the GT3000 world you have a very deep knowledge of the TD04 family and it will serve you well if you hang around, but you cannot apply everything you have learned with the full size TD04's to these turbos, sure some of it crosses over, but these are tiny TD03 housings we are stuffing some the largest wheels in the TD04 family into. Its going to equate to big numbers, but its also going to put a ton of stress on them. I am looking forward to getting more testing done, and I hope you hang around and add some real world experience to the platform, its always welcome!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by continue5 Click here to enlarge
    I don't believe that is what is happening here... pretty sure they took an already upgraded set of stock turbos by RB Turbo and upgraded a few things he thought needed upgrading from past experience to get he results he got here.. ?

    The stock housing does seem like it would be way too tiny for the power levels but then again.. there was a guy on n54 tech that chopped off his stock turbos and fabbed up a PT 6262 using the stock manifolds.. Last he posted it was running well.. not quite sure what kind of power he makes though.
    :
    http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps70c95b60.jpghttp://i982.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps30tvnnmf.jpg
    lol, wtf? What an abortion.
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    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    lol, wtf? What an abortion.
    Who cares what it looks like if it performs? It's just basically a log manifold.

    If he or someone could offer that as a complete kit for 4k and hit 600-650whp without horrible spool you would have STs all over the place no?

    Does anyone know if where he put the O2s worked ok? Anyone have a link to that thread?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by continue5 Click here to enlarge
    I don't believe that is what is happening here... pretty sure they took an already upgraded set of stock turbos by RB Turbo and upgraded a few things he thought needed upgrading from past experience to get he results he got here.. ?

    The stock housing does seem like it would be way too tiny for the power levels but then again.. there was a guy on n54 tech that chopped off his stock turbos and fabbed up a PT 6262 using the stock manifolds.. Last he posted it was running well.. not quite sure what kind of power he makes though.
    :
    http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps70c95b60.jpghttp://i982.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps30tvnnmf.jpg
    By all means i thought when asking to make a set of these for this car it wasn't meant the set blue was running but the ones they made for the 3000, my apologies I miss interpreted the post.

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    Looks like the race for 700 ponies through these $#@!ters have begun...... Who would like to call the stipulations now so when it happens we can end all the nonsense and actually just say well done. People aren't much different then turbo's they love blowing out hot air.......Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blue24 Click here to enlarge
    Looks like the race for 700 ponies through these $#@!ters have begun...... Who would like to call the stipulations now so when it happens we can end all the nonsense and actually just say well done. People aren't much different then turbo's they love blowing out hot air.......Click here to enlarge
    lol

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    Ray and Blue24, what all was done to these turbos to achieve these results? If you guys don't mind sharing. The only description I have read so far makes it seem hard and expensive.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boostE92d Click here to enlarge
    Ray and Blue24, what all was done to these turbos to achieve these results? If you guys don't mind sharing. The only description I have read so far makes it seem hard and expensive.
    You need to read the thread.
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    They are trying to share the information but vendors (especially Tony from Vargas) are either bickering or trying to promote their products. You may have better chance of PM them.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by babuski Click here to enlarge
    They are trying to share the information but vendors (especially Tony from Vargas) are either bickering or trying to promote their products. You may have better chance of PM them.
    Truth. What .makes it even worse is alot of whats going on is the the same $#@! they complained about with shiv poping in other peoples threads arguing about his product etc
    hypocrite much? Smtfh.

    Can you guys tell us what size an how many meth nozzles? Thanks

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    The only description of the machine work involved was made by a vendor. I was asking the op and the person who did the turbo modification. I would like to hear from THEM how complicated and expensive the whole thing was.
    Thank you, for your advice though sticky

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    Respect. .. 600whp daily driver

    Thanks for sharing this with the community.

    Keep us posted with updates.
    Click here to enlarge

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    I'd like to hear more about the chopped stock manifold and the specifics of this upgrade.
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Awesome, love the progression. Don't worry, my turbos are already off the shop car getting a few little tweaks of our own. We will be coming for this in the next few weeks...Click here to enlarge

    There is only 1 way to get them to hold boost like that with the small housings, we know what it is but never really wanted to do down that road. But its funny this came now as we are on our way down it. There isn't much left in there RB, the 12 blade turbine wont get close to this.



    If you guys hit that 600 mark will you produce some of the units for sale around the price of rbs? I would deffinatly be interested in that case. ive been holding off on rbs because they are just a little to low in HP for me.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Just compared the graphs between this and ours, they INDENTICAL until right about 4500 where our boost was auto tapering, and obviously his isn't as it keeps pulling. Well not exactly indentical we made more TQ down low but he just keeps pulling, but basically to get this, all you have to do is hold boost, every change we are making right now is to do just that. This is gonna be fun..Click here to enlarge
    When can I buy a set from you guys I want 600whp! this 400 mark is getting old real fast!

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