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  1. #126
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ray Pampena Click here to enlarge
    You guys worried about longevity with the TD04s, i build tons of 3000s with them and guys run over 30psi including myself.
    in a TD03 (bored out at least) housing?

    TD04 in a TD04 housing i wouldn't doubt haha.

    the 3000GT is an actual TD04 housing isn't it? that's a little different haha
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ray Pampena Click here to enlarge
    its pretty funny.. we have the same arguments on the 3000GT/Stealth boards. single vs twins, stock frame vs astermarket.. piggyback vs flash vs stand alone.

    my feeling on these cars are the same. Aftermarket single will have more legs and ultimately make more power. But, you cant take away from 600whp at 25psi with stock frame turbos that spool really fast and make more TQ than HP. You also keep the car all stock with everything where it belongs. If i were bulding one of these for 700 and up whp id do the single kit.
    You guys worried about longevity with the TD04s, i build tons of 3000s with them and guys run over 30psi including myself.

    just my input! im not here with an agenda! just sharing information. Before Dons car, ive never even driven in one of these cars. they are nice cars with tons of potential and TD04s are TD04s. Its crazy to say that this car is some edged out dyno queen.. this is Dons daily driver and he lets it have it on the street every day. its now making 600whp every day.
    Hey Rob! its been a long time.. i hope all is well

    heres my TD04 car. a daily driver running E85 and 31psi. its 3950 with me in it at the track and runs low 10s at near 140mph on regular tires, factory wheels.. fully loaded etc. TD04s are great for cars like that EDIT.. im too new to put in my youtube link for the car
    I was less worried about the TD04, sound like that is well tested on other platforms. I was more worried the 6AT as a very very high percentage of people on this platform have this and there is A LOT of low end TQ on these dynos. These TQ numbers surpass a number of turbo upgrade options for our platform and evwn some of those slip in some cases.

  3. #128
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    in a TD03 (bored out at least) housing?

    TD04 in a TD04 housing i wouldn't doubt haha.

    the 3000GT is an actual TD04 housing isn't it? that's a little different haha

    the only thing TD03 on these hybrid turbos you guys run are the compressor and exhaust housings. Its a full TD04 center section which is where the bearings and thrust and all the load is. The TD04 center section will be just as strong as the TD04s in a 3000GT. the housings cant hurt them mechanically

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by djpaulie Click here to enlarge
    I was less worried about the TD04, sound like that is well tested on other platforms. I was more worried the 6AT as a very very high percentage of people on this platform have this and there is A LOT of low end TQ on these dynos. These TQ numbers surpass a number of turbo upgrade options for our platform and evwn some of those slip in some cases.
    i agree. Youd have to taylor the boost curve to be easy on the trans.

  5. #130
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    With all due respect T, who's asking?
    Hmmmmm, Well I wasn't answering anyone I was making a comparison of two similar turbos, and curves. Isn't that what is done on these forums? Now someone has to ask for one turbo to be compared to another. As a turbocharger manufacture for the N54 you really have to scratch your head and wonder why we would get in the mix and compare stock frame turbos to stock frame turbos when that is one of our main products. Yeah, that's totally a mystery there...Click here to enlarge With all due respect

  6. #131
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ray Pampena Click here to enlarge
    You guys worried about longevity with the TD04s, i build tons of 3000s with them and guys run over 30psi including myself.
    This is comparing Apples to oranges, the 3000GT turbos use full size TD04 housings, and have plenty of flow to last a nice long time at those levels. These are not, these are tiny TD03 turbine housings, designed to spool very fast and max out around 400BHP. Whats your BP ratios look like, Shaft Speed, EGT? Still baffles me that not a single person or company that builds turbos whether stock frame or single has taken the few hours and 500 bucks it costs to collect more information on what you are doing than what is being gathered from the canbus.

  7. #132
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ray Pampena Click here to enlarge
    the only thing TD03 on these hybrid turbos you guys run are the compressor and exhaust housings. Its a full TD04 center section which is where the bearings and thrust and all the load is. The TD04 center section will be just as strong as the TD04s in a 3000GT. the housings cant hurt them mechanically
    yeah i know, the internals are TD04

    but the housing still is smaller than a full TD04, which in itself is a restriction to flow?

    you can make a TD04 housing significantly larger (therefore more flow) with larger inlets and outlets, than the TD03 housing?

    what i mean.. is just like the TD03 can be machined to accept TD04 internals

    the TD04 can be machined/high flowed to accept TD05 right?

    (not talking about longevity/durability, but performance)

    ED: just like Tony said above me hah
    boop

  8. #133
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    more options is better. if ray is putting bigger wheels and crap then the other guys, they will need to spin less fast to push the same air which means in theory they last longer regardless.

    600whp bolt on factory style twins? Take my money please.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    This is comparing Apples to oranges, the 3000GT turbos use full size TD04 housings, and have plenty of flow to last a nice long time at those levels. These are not, these are tiny TD03 turbine housings, designed to spool very fast and max out around 400BHP. Whats your BP ratios look like, Shaft Speed, EGT? Still baffles me that not a single person or company that builds turbos whether stock frame or single has taken the few hours and 500 bucks it costs to collect more information on what you are doing than what is being gathered from the canbus.
    Well, again i am not a turbo builder. (yes i did assemble them) I do know the TD04s run close to a 2:1 aspect ratio which is poor but still perform relatively well. The wheels in Dons car are spot on HP wise to what i see in a 3000GT so those TD03 hosings are not doing too bad. I wouldnt expect the longevity to be different either since the power is the same. Im sure the turbos you have coming out will be built the same way and you will consider them safe to run. We got this thing together without trying to set the world on fire and it just so happened to break a record.. which i think is really cool. The upgraded thrust is key to keeping them alive for a long time since that is the main thing that wears out.

  10. #135
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    Welcome to the show Ray...... lol

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    You guys familiar with set it and forget it lol... We'll that's how I have it set up. I try to make as much power as possible then pull it off the rollers and drive it everyday... Maybe tomorrow it will make over 600 Click here to enlarge

  12. #137
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ray Pampena Click here to enlarge
    Well, again i am not a turbo builder. (yes i did assemble them) I do know the TD04s run close to a 2:1 aspect ratio which is poor but still perform relatively well. The wheels in Dons car are spot on HP wise to what i see in a 3000GT so those TD03 hosings are not doing too bad. I wouldnt expect the longevity to be different either since the power is the same. Im sure the turbos you have coming out will be built the same way and you will consider them safe to run. We got this thing together without trying to set the world on fire and it just so happened to break a record.. which i think is really cool. The upgraded thrust is key to keeping them alive for a long time since that is the main thing that wears out.
    Ray we have a full array of sensors on these turbos from shaft speed to BP, to double EGT probes, these stock turbine housings with a TD04L wheel reach 3:1+ BP levels as you near redline, there is no way around that, a bigger compressor wheel is going to give you more CFM and in turn more horsepower potential but its not going to reduce the back pressure, we are also seeing 210-220 RPM shaft speeds approaching redline, anything over 180 is driving just about any compressor wheel well out of its efficiency range. Bottom line is the ONLY way these turbos will last for a long time is running 22-23 psi midrange tapering to 17 or red line. The shaft speed and BP kill them.This is what we have found from our experience, and the data we have collected. On our latest turbos, we have made significant changes to the turbine wheel design, and we just got a set off the car at 1000 miles of 28+ psi and they look perfect, so what we are doing is working. I am glad you also understand the thrust is key, we do not sell stage 2's without it, the other N54 stock frame turbo builder has gone one every forum, told everyone the upgraded thrust is a gimmick and not needed. We both know this is not the case.

  13. #138
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blue24 Click here to enlarge
    Welcome to the show Ray...... lol
    Yes, welcome to the show.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Ray we have a full array of sensors on these turbos from shaft speed to BP, to double EGT probes, these stock turbine housings with a TD04L wheel reach 3:1+ BP levels as you near redline, there is no way around that, a bigger compressor wheel is going to give you more CFM and in turn more horsepower potential but its not going to reduce the back pressure, we are also seeing 210-220 RPM shaft speeds approaching redline, anything over 180 is driving just about any compressor wheel well out of its efficiency range. Bottom line is the ONLY way these turbos will last for a long time is running 22-23 psi midrange tapering to 17 or red line. The shaft speed and BP kill them.This is what we have found from our experience, and the data we have collected. On our latest turbos, we have made significant changes to the turbine wheel design, and we just got a set off the car at 1000 miles of 28+ psi and they look perfect, so what we are doing is working. I am glad you also understand the thrust is key, we do not sell stage 2's without it, the other N54 stock frame turbo builder has gone one every forum, told everyone the upgraded thrust is a gimmick and not needed. We both know this is not the case.
    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge
    700 and change

  15. #140
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Awesome, love the progression. Don't worry, my turbos are already off the shop car getting a few little tweaks of our own. We will be coming for this in the next few weeks...Click here to enlarge
    So, If I read the thread correctly, everyone is now coming up with 600whp quickly spooling twins? And the difference is that they will keep the boost up longer? That's good news for the transmission as the midrange is strong enough already as it is.

  16. #141
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT-Tom Click here to enlarge
    @dzenno@PTF Without sounding confrontational, how are you logging boost above 22.1 psi? The dme wont see it so I see that as the major limiting factor to flash only. The debate may rage on and I am personally a fan of flash only, especially on an auto trans, but that question has always boggled my mind. I'm more interested because i will be upgrading to a different turbo solution and am wondering if you can log boost above those levels. Thanks!
    I believe that it's done by using the N20 3.0 bar MAP sensor in place of our factory 2.0 bar sensor. Used in conjunction with a harness made by BMS.
    Stuff

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Ray we have a full array of sensors on these turbos from shaft speed to BP, to double EGT probes, these stock turbine housings with a TD04L wheel reach 3:1+ BP levels as you near redline, there is no way around that, a bigger compressor wheel is going to give you more CFM and in turn more horsepower potential but its not going to reduce the back pressure, we are also seeing 210-220 RPM shaft speeds approaching redline, anything over 180 is driving just about any compressor wheel well out of its efficiency range. Bottom line is the ONLY way these turbos will last for a long time is running 22-23 psi midrange tapering to 17 or red line. The shaft speed and BP kill them.This is what we have found from our experience, and the data we have collected. On our latest turbos, we have made significant changes to the turbine wheel design, and we just got a set off the car at 1000 miles of 28+ psi and they look perfect, so what we are doing is working. I am glad you also understand the thrust is key, we do not sell stage 2's without it, the other N54 stock frame turbo builder has gone one every forum, told everyone the upgraded thrust is a gimmick and not needed. We both know this is not the case.
    Couple quick questions Tony. My P3 gauge has an EGT reading on it. How is it different from the sensors you run on your car?

    Also, what is a safe EGT limit on stock frame turbos?
    Stuff

  18. #143
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by froop Click here to enlarge
    I believe that it's done by using the N20 3.0 bar MAP sensor in place of our factory 2.0 bar sensor. Used in conjunction with a harness made by BMS.
    Does that work without a JB4?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by froop Click here to enlarge
    Couple quick questions Tony. My P3 gauge has an EGT reading on it. How is it different from the sensors you run on your car?

    Also, what is a safe EGT limit on stock frame turbos?
    Apparently that EGT figure is made up.

  19. #144
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Nugs Click here to enlarge
    Does that work without a JB4?

    Apparently that EGT figure is made up.
    Yes and no. The 3.5bar TMAP sensor can work without any type of piggyback but there is a 21psi hard limit with Cobb and 18.5psi with all other flash tunes. The EGT figure pulled from the CANBUS is calculated and pretty far off in certain circumstances.
    Click here to enlarge
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  20. #145
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by froop Click here to enlarge
    Couple quick questions Tony. My P3 gauge has an EGT reading on it. How is it different from the sensors you run on your car?

    Also, what is a safe EGT limit on stock frame turbos?
    The only way to get a true EGT reading is to put a dedicated exhaust probe before the turbo. I am not sure exactly what the P3 is reading but I am sure it is some combination of values the DME is seeing that they decided was a formula for EGT. Seeing anything getting much higher than 1600-1650 is approaching the limit of what you would like to see.

  21. #146
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    Coming along great, why are you on the waiting list, or just reaching for the only possible thing you could for a comeback...Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Coming along great, why are you on the waiting list, or just reaching for the only possible thing you could for a comeback...Click here to enlarge
    Just adding some levity to an otherwise stuffy thread Click here to enlarge
    700 and change

  23. #148
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dietcoke Click here to enlarge

    600whp bolt on factory style twins? Take my money please.
    This.

  24. #149
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Ray we have a full array of sensors on these turbos from shaft speed to BP, to double EGT probes, these stock turbine housings with a TD04L wheel reach 3:1+ BP levels as you near redline, there is no way around that, a bigger compressor wheel is going to give you more CFM and in turn more horsepower potential but its not going to reduce the back pressure, we are also seeing 210-220 RPM shaft speeds approaching redline, anything over 180 is driving just about any compressor wheel well out of its efficiency range. Bottom line is the ONLY way these turbos will last for a long time is running 22-23 psi midrange tapering to 17 or red line. The shaft speed and BP kill them.This is what we have found from our experience, and the data we have collected. On our latest turbos, we have made significant changes to the turbine wheel design, and we just got a set off the car at 1000 miles of 28+ psi and they look perfect, so what we are doing is working. I am glad you also understand the thrust is key, we do not sell stage 2's without it, the other N54 stock frame turbo builder has gone one every forum, told everyone the upgraded thrust is a gimmick and not needed. We both know this is not the case.
    This stuff is worth going over. Im sure that you guys are seeing 3:1 on turbos that are not running too efficiently. Theres so many things that come into play that create that aspect ratio FAR more than exhaust housing size! ANYTHING that makes a turbo more efficient will chip away at lowering that ratio. That ratio is created by how much work that the turbo has to do in the first place. I better flowing compressor wheel SURE DOES lower the ratio as well as a better flowing compressor wheel.

    Ill list some examples while im in the posting mood.. lets take the 3:1 that you are seeing. thats 60psi ex pressure to run the 20psi manifold. Why do all different setups on cars make different power at the same boost levels? its ALL done by improving apon that exhaust pressure.
    flow more air with a better compressor.. make that same boost at a lower shaft speed which means less ex pressure to run the turbo. Run a better turbine wheel.. the shaft speed will be able to remain the same while dropping ex pressure once again. increase intake flow so you are not making boost from a vacuum.. drop ex pressure once again. install free flowing exhaust so the pressure drop across the turbine is going for X to zero.. drop ex pressure even more. Then, youll get closer to 2:1 like my car wich makes 700 on TD04s and Dons car is definitly approaching 2:1 also due to it making 600WHP at 25psi on smaller parts than i have in mine. It would be safe to say that it is currently the most efficient turbo set on these cars. Hopefully it jumpstarts everyone to do some new stuff.

    People have been telling me the same thing for years on the 3000s.. how you cant make over 500whp.. then 600whp.. and now 700whp on TD04s lol. Dons car with TD03 housings is actually making slightly more WHP than a 3000 with the same turbo but TD04 housings.
    a car with precision CEA billets would be a 1:1 and make 850whp at 25psi. This stuff really isnt new to me and the results are no different than what ive seen and expected.

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    That's 700 to all four wheels ........ Let's not even get into hp per cubic inch.

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