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  1. #1
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    Fuel-It! E-series Stage 3 LPFP testing

    Hey all,

    Thought I'd start a thread for the Fuel-It! Stage 3 E-Series LPFP testing I'm doing to share data and results.

    To begin with, this setup is NOT designed for those running stock turbos, nor is it needed for hybrids on an otherwise stock fuel system. This is for those that will be running alternative fueling solutions and need A LOT of fuel.

    Some key points:

    • The stage 3 bucket consists of two Walbro 450 (F90000267) pumps plumbed in parallel and housed within a stock bucket.
    • In order to reduce heat build up and strain on the stock electrical system, only one pump runs full time and is controlled 100% by the DME.
    • Passenger and driver's side venturi's as well as the stock fuel pressure regulator are fully functional.
    • All the stock plumbing and connections remain untouched. You replace your stock bucket with this one and none of the stock components are modified.
    • The second pump runs on demand as determined by the user's setup.
    • The bucket is a complete drop in and primary pump (stage 2 equivalent) is plug and play. The secondary pump requires an additional wiring harness and trigger (JB4, Hobbs switch...) Again, none of the stock components are modified.
    • Flows as performed on the test bench at 13.5V were:
      • Full time pump >1gpm
      • Both pumps >2gpm

    *The stock fuel pump is approx. .6gpm under the same conditions.

    -At this time I am just playing with this setup to verify functionality and reliability. After I am satisfied with the results I will send one out to Tony for testing with the Shotgun setup.

    Here is some of the testing I've done thus far:

    Flow bench...


    Low fuel test...



    Logs...These were done with the secondary pump kicking on at 8psi and targeting AFRs or 12.2 up top. In these logs I'm also using my E85 CP injection to assist the HPFP and help with IAT's. That system is also run off the low pressure system but has a booster pump to increase pressures for atomization.

    I'll be adding a bunch of logs in the next few days to compare various setups.

    The LPFP and misc.

    Click here to enlarge


    The HPFP and misc.

    Click here to enlarge

    And last but not least, a picture of the pump assembly. Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Link to log in the above examples.
    Last edited by SteveAZ; 08-12-2014 at 08:45 AM.
    Click here to enlarge
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  2. #2
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    Man, you're smart. Good work! Interested to see how this progresses.

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    Good job Steve!

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    this is awesome

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    Looking forward to trying it!

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    Cool test rig! I may need one of these. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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  7. #7
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    The progress continues, well done.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 2Times Click here to enlarge
    Man, you're smart. Good work! Interested to see how this progresses.
    hahaha...I'm going to show this to my wife...at least then she'll know somebody thinks I'm smart. Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Cool test rig! I may need one of these. Click here to enlarge
    For what? We've gotcha covered if you need anything. Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The progress continues, well done.
    Yessir.....looks like a lot of good progress with this platform this year!

    Gotcha covered Tony...yours is done and has been sitting on my bench for a bit. Just waiting until I finish testing and am satisfied before sending it out.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge
    For what? We've gotcha covered if you need anything. Click here to enlarge
    Glad to hear! We've got three single turbo cars. Two are getting Tony's double barrel kit and one is getting CPE's port injection rail. I'm not sure which will get which yet but all three will eventually need a better in tank solution.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  10. #10
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Glad to hear! We've got three single turbo cars. Two are getting Tony's double barrel kit and one is getting CPE's port injection rail. I'm not sure which will get which yet but all three will eventually need a better in tank solution.
    Can't wait to get you guys these kits so we can get these bigger turbos fueled!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Glad to hear! We've got three single turbo cars. Two are getting Tony's double barrel kit and one is getting CPE's port injection rail. I'm not sure which will get which yet but all three will eventually need a better in tank solution.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Can't wait to get you guys these kits so we can get these bigger turbos fueled!
    Since I can't give you guys a thumbs up...this'll have to do!

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  12. #12
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Glad to hear! We've got three single turbo cars. Two are getting Tony's double barrel kit and one is getting CPE's port injection rail. I'm not sure which will get which yet but all three will eventually need a better in tank solution.
    when is CP-E's kit coming out?
    boop

  13. #13
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    when is CP-E's kit coming out?
    I'm not sure on that or the price. They have a clean kit though with three stages. I'll be testing out the first stage soon. It's a spacer, injectors, fuel rail, fuel lines with quick connect fittings to tie in to the OEM fuel lines, and a small wiring harness that runs all the injectors to the DME area where they can be controlled via a JB4, Aquamist PWM controller, or whatever else you come up with.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  14. #14
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I'm not sure on that or the price. They have a clean kit though with three stages. I'll be testing out the first stage soon. It's a spacer, injectors, fuel rail, fuel lines with quick connect fittings to tie in to the OEM fuel lines, and a small wiring harness that runs all the injectors to the DME area where they can be controlled via a JB4, Aquamist PWM controller, or whatever else you come up with.
    Are they running the secondary rail on stock LPFP pressures?
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    With Stage1 yes. They also have Stage2 and Stage3 options that include a bucket, regulator, etc, but I don't think those are in production yet.

    Having a smart system able to monitor low fuel pressure and map the injectors accordingly is going to be key to making this work right IMHO.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  16. #16
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    I don't think providing a stable low pressure supply (lower that 72psi) will be an issue if that's what they need. But like you said, it's going to take a custom bucket w/dual pumps and another FPR if it requires anything other than 72psi.

    It can still be a pretty clean setup but installation is obviously more involved. However, lets be honest...by the time you've gotten to the point that you need that, you're already in pretty deep.
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  17. #17
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    A couple more logs.

    Sorry about the delay I had a couple things going on.

    1st I had put an old stock regulator back in the car to test as completely stock, but I suspect since that regulator had been out of the car for a long time, the regulator diaphragm dried out and cracked. Consequently it was bleeding off flow. I took it out and put my other stock filter in (no regulator) and all was back to normal. I'll dissect the stock regulator later today to confirm.

    Also had the car in the shop longer than expected getting new coilovers put on. Click here to enlarge

    Anyway...back to testing.

    Both these tests were run with an external FPR.

    Here is stage 3 running without the second stage activated. So basically running as a stage 2.

    Click here to enlarge

    Here's stage 3 running with the second stage activated at 8psi.

    Click here to enlarge

    And here is the HPFP...(CP injection turned off)

    Click here to enlarge

    Will be putting a new stock filter and regulator in tonight to gather more data with the external FPR will be defeated.
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    A little more testing today before I log some runs tonight.

    The purpose of this test was to find out how much flow a stock filter assembly, input line, and output line could handle. To do this I plumbed the stock filter assembly inline just as it would be in the car with a stage 3 fuel pump on the test bench. I also had to drop the pressures to 20psi or my regulator was too restrictive since there was no fuel being consumed by the motor and things heated up in a hurry.

    With just one pump running, I got flows of 1.3gpm.
    With both pumps running, I got flows of 2.1gpm.

    So this confirmed for me what I wanted to know before shipping this out to Tony for his testing. The stock filter assembly is up to the task.
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    The logs....

    100% E85 and stock filter, regulator, hpfp, rail, and no CP injection. (CP pump, solenoid, and FPR were bypassed for this testing).

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Link to log

    http://datazap.me/u/steveaz/stage-3-...=1&data=1-7-11

    It was a bit hot when I ran this log as can be seen in my IAT's...so I'll be taking more tonight when its cooler.

    I am now satisfied with the testing and will be getting the bucket out to Tony for his testing with the shotgun HPFP.
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  20. #20
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    Hey Steve,
    you may already know this, but if not: if you click a line on the graph it puts it on it's own color-coded axis so it isn't skewed by other data that has very different min/max values. For instance in this screenshot STFT and LTFT completely flatten out because of the hpfp data. Just click the line and you'll be good. Once you put something on it's own axis, click the line again to revert it back to the global scale

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge


    The HPFP and misc.

    Click here to enlarge
    335xi (sold)
    www.datazap.me - fast, free, interactive datalogs

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jpsimon Click here to enlarge
    Hey Steve,
    you may already know this, but if not: if you click a line on the graph it puts it on it's own color-coded axis so it isn't skewed by other data that has very different min/max values. For instance in this screenshot STFT and LTFT completely flatten out because of the hpfp data. Just click the line and you'll be good. Once you put something on it's own axis, click the line again to revert it back to the global scale
    Hey,

    Thanks and I did know that but here is a good example of why I don't do that.

    This is a log I ran late last night to continue my testing.

    Here is the data presented on one graph without "skewed" data. In reality, unless you really study this graph for a few seconds, the data is "skewed" because if you're trying to track how well the HPFP actual tracks requested, you have to determine that the scaling on the left is different and then try to visualize that. Consequently I just try to make the graphs as easy to read as possible without overwhelming the viewer.

    Click here to enlarge

    Or, here is a screenshot of just the fuel pump data (boost and rpm referenced) like I presented last night.

    Click here to enlarge


    Here is the same fuel pump data in two separate graphs....which do you prefer?

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Ultimately this is why I also put the link to your site at the bottom of the posts. So users can examine whatever parameters they want and I'm not "skewing" the data. Click here to enlarge

    Ultimately though...I see exactly what you're saying and in a couple of those I should just deselect boost, trims, or whatever else I may have up when I take the screenshot.

    Speaking of which...here's the link to the latest log taken at 80 degrees.

    http://datazap.me/u/steveaz/stage-3-...12&zoom=17-164
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    Yeah I agree it can be skewed in the other direction as well with too many solo-axes. I was just throwing that tip out there incase you didn't know, not specifically for that one graph since there is a lot of data being shown. It's helpful for specific circumstances with less data being shown at once when there are min/max values that are vastly different.

    anyways... carry on! awesome products - I'd have jumped right in for one of these pumps if I was still in the n54 game
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    Click here to enlarge

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    so this should be able to flow ~3.5x what the stock pump can.. through the stock filter, lines, everything... more than enough to tap out 2 HPFP's in theory? Click here to enlarge

    good news!
    boop

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    @jpsimon Click here to enlarge


    @Flinchy without actually having the shotgun system in my possession...I have done my best to confirm that. Tony will have to do the follow up testing with his double barrel shotgun system (and hopefully stage 3 turbos) and I eagerly await those results. Click here to enlarge

    This system will be going on another car shortly for more long term testing while I move on to my next project. Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by SteveAZ; 08-25-2014 at 11:59 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SteveAZ Click here to enlarge
    @jpsimon Click here to enlarge


    @Flinchy without actually having the shotgun system in my possession...I have done my best to confirm that. Tony will have to do the follow up testing with his double barrel shotgun system (and hopefully stage 3 turbos) and I eagerly await those results. Click here to enlarge

    This system will be going on another car shortly for more long term testing while I move on to my next project. Click here to enlarge
    i meant as a guess based off the stock LPFP being able to make a standard single HPFP take a dive sometimes, and a single walbro 450 being able to do it without a worry (especially on E85)

    either way, i'm extremely excited for this + shotgun results!Click here to enlarge
    boop

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