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  1. #1
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    A little 5862 vs. 6465 twin scroll spool data

    Hey guys,

    For kicks we swapped the 5862 Precision turbo on our FFTEC 135i top mount twin scroll over to a 6465 Comp turbo. The new turbo should support another 75whp to get this car up closer to 700rwp.

    But in the mean time I was able to do a quick spool test. At 3300rpm the 5862 hits the ~17psi target. But the 6465 takes another 500rpm to get there. At 3300rpm it's at ~13psi. Not bad considering our 6466 bottom mount makes almost no boost at 3300rpm. We'll find out if the extra lag is worth it on the dyno next week. Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge
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    Nice!
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

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    Not too shabby! You can make much more than 75 whp with this turbo than the 5862, and still not maxing it out.

    This is the same exact size turbo on our VM top mount kit. Comp 6465 triple bb billet wheel turbo with t4 .84 TS AR with 3" vband discharge. Previous turbo and sizing on Terrys' 135i was PTE 5862 BB Billet wheel t4 .84 TS AR with 3" vband discharge.
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  4. #4
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    Not too shabby! You can make much more than 75 whp with this turbo than the 5862, and still not maxing it out.

    This is the same exact size turbo on our VM top mount kit. Comp 6465 triple bb billet wheel turbo with t4 .84 TS AR with 3" vband discharge. Previous turbo and sizing on Terrys' 135i was PTE 5862 BB Billet wheel t4 .84 TS AR with 3" vband discharge.
    I guess 700whp will be the new "goal" with the turbo. Ought to be enough to keep me ahead of you guys. Click here to enlarge Thanks for your help on the labor end!

    Ando is going to do with the same turbo so it will be interesting to compare spool up on your manifold vs. my FFTEC one.

    PS. If anyone wants a deal on a slightly used PTE 5862 email me. Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I guess 700whp will be the new "goal" with the turbo. Ought to be enough to keep me ahead of you guys. Click here to enlarge Thanks for your help on the labor end!

    Ando is going to do with the same turbo so it will be interesting to compare spool up on your manifold vs. my FFTEC one.

    PS. If anyone wants a deal on a slightly used PTE 5862 email me. Click here to enlarge
    I'm sure at 27-28 psi held to redline on this turbo, with some e40 blend and meth you will hit 700whp no problem. The trade off for 100whp vs 500rpm is definitely worth it in my book. Not a problem at all Terry, glad I could help swap turbo and wastegate springs for ya.

    So should I go ahead an order another 6465 Click here to enlarge LOL
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    And the excitement builds!
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    You could barely launch the smaller turbo, no? Any plans to help with the launch with the bigger one or is the 135i just going to be a roll monster?

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    Are you staying with the AT or doing a swap?
    E92 335is DCT

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    Here is another data point. Our bottom mount 5858 doing a similar spool test.

    Click here to enlarge
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  10. #10
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 2Times Click here to enlarge
    You could barely launch the smaller turbo, no? Any plans to help with the launch with the bigger one or is the 135i just going to be a roll monster?
    Given up drag racing it for now. It's cheaper to just make it a roll monster plus the runway events are more popular down here. Drag days are rare.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by musc Click here to enlarge
    Are you staying with the AT or doing a swap?
    I would never do an MT swap. I'd swap cars. You can buy them for $10k now lol. But this one will stay AT.
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    Nice, i would like to see the spool of 67mm top mount i think full boost at 4200rpm?

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    What gear are the runs in by the way?
    Burger Motorsports
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    What gear are the runs in by the way?
    5th gear starting at 2k

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135idct Click here to enlarge
    Nice, i would like to see the spool of 67mm top mount i think full boost at 4200rpm?

    Depends on the a/r of the turbine. Would it be possible to even fit a pt76 or comp equivalent in a bottom mount set up?

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    In your spool comparisons, are you simply just swapping the turbo and taking logs?

    I ask, because there is a lot that can be done on the flash side of tuning to increase the spool of these bigger turbos. Timing and AFR play a role, but Vanos is most important. If using the vanos tables from stock frame turbo roms, you are leaving a good amount of spool on the table Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jyamona Click here to enlarge
    In your spool comparisons, are you simply just swapping the turbo and taking logs?

    I ask, because there is a lot that can be done on the flash side of tuning to increase the spool of these bigger turbos. Timing and AFR play a role, but Vanos is most important. If using the vanos tables from stock frame turbo roms, you are leaving a good amount of spool on the table Click here to enlarge
    Yes, no tuning changes in any of the comparisons.

    In earlier testing leaning it out and reducing timing didn't have any real effect on spool. On VANOS I tried reducing overlap during the spool range and it didn't have any effect, so I just put any spool related tuning on hold. As more of these kits get out there I'm happy to look at it again if there is some indication that flash changes may help. A spool log before and after each change, etc, would be helpful.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Yes, no tuning changes in any of the comparisons.

    In earlier testing leaning it out and reducing timing didn't have any real effect on spool. On VANOS I tried reducing overlap during the spool range and it didn't have any effect, so I just put any spool related tuning on hold. As more of these kits get out there I'm happy to look at it again if there is some indication that flash changes may help. A spool log before and after each change, etc, would be helpful.
    That's because you don't want to reduce overlap Click here to enlarge I picked up much "spool" knowledge being in the Evo X world for 3 years, trying tons of combinations of MIVEC maps (basically our Vanos, except Vanos seems even faster to respond). I've been meaning to write a post covering this but haven't had the time. Maybe now that there's so many ST guys to benefit, I'll dig up some old rom's and plots and get something together.

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    Here's a quick log I found for you. The turbo in question is about 60lb/min of airflow. Stock 2.0L motor. You can see the trend with invvt and exvvt (mivec params) Click here to enlarge Also for reference, intake cam ranges from 10* to 35*, while exhaust cam ranges from 0* to -25*

    http://datazap.me/u/jyamona/mivec-sp...=9-14-15-16-17

  20. #20
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jyamona Click here to enlarge
    That's because you don't want to reduce overlap Click here to enlarge I picked up much "spool" knowledge being in the Evo X world for 3 years, trying tons of combinations of MIVEC maps (basically our Vanos, except Vanos seems even faster to respond). I've been meaning to write a post covering this but haven't had the time. Maybe now that there's so many ST guys to benefit, I'll dig up some old rom's and plots and get something together.
    Sounds good. If we could shave another 200rpm off with tuning changes it would make the 6465 a much easier pill to swallow for automatic cars.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Sounds good. If we could shave another 200rpm off with tuning changes it would make the 6465 a much easier pill to swallow for automatic cars.
    I feel the same tuning tweaks could be applied to the 5862 as well though. The larger the turbo, the longer you can keep the huge overlap through the spool-up range too, so you may see more benefit with the 6465. Try and model your vanos table along the same principle of the attached log above. I haven't had much time to test, but from initial look, requested seems to follow actual a lot more closely with the n54 than on the 4b11 which is a benefit.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Hey guys,

    For kicks we swapped the 5862 Precision turbo on our FFTEC 135i top mount twin scroll over to a 6465 Comp turbo. The new turbo should support another 75whp to get this car up closer to 700rwp.

    But in the mean time I was able to do a quick spool test. At 3300rpm the 5862 hits the ~17psi target. But the 6465 takes another 500rpm to get there. At 3300rpm it's at ~13psi. Not bad considering our 6466 bottom mount makes almost no boost at 3300rpm. We'll find out if the extra lag is worth it on the dyno next week. http://www.n54tech.com/forums/images...burnrubber.gif


    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...c1d14074-1.jpg
    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...c1d14074-1.jpg
    Solid data to have. It's worth the penalty IMO.

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    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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