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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    You are correct, but the owner of this kit, or the fabricator, or whatever you want to call that person did not make this thread, actually did just respond in this thread stating he wants to share any and all info upon its release so I wouldnt jump the gun and question the depth of information on the kit until all cards are revealed upon release. Click here to enlarge

    Your kit looks great though. One question though... has anyone came anywhere near @Terry@BMS 's 5.99 60-130 ??!?!? That is what matters to me!!! Click here to enlarge
    You got it boss, I totally understand. So far, no. Terrys car is a factory freak man. At 12 psi testing his car with the 5862, I would need to be at 15+psi on my 6465 to keep up. I'm going to guess the weight is that much of a difference. I need to shed weight in my car.

    Now with his new setup comp 6465 and new 1bar wastegate springs, be ready for some more numbers very soon. I'm about to go drop off his car back to him and pick mine up to swap the springs on mine as well.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    All of the exhaust tubing of the top mount kits radiate heat outward into the engine compartment a because there is so much material there. A well designed bottom mount will allow the exhaust gasses to spool the turbo and then quickly evacuate them.
    i noticed the oil temp with the top mount turbo is lower than the stock turbos, also while racing with the top mount the oil temp gets low much faster than the bottom mount stock turbos.

    u can reduce the heat from the top mount by warping the manifold, turbo hot side and put the engine cover.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135idct Click here to enlarge
    i noticed the oil temp with the top mount turbo is lower than the stock turbos, also while racing with the top mount the oil temp gets low much faster than the bottom mount stock turbos.

    u can reduce the heat from the top mount by warping the manifold, turbo hot side and put the engine cover.
    You would be the only one to notice this if that is the case, a top mount is going to keep much more heat in the engine bay, the N54 engine bay is designed with the turbos on the bottom, and such is much more efficient at keeping it out of the engine bay in that configuration. BMW spends millions of dollars on heat management as it is of utmost importance, to say people welding manifolds together, and sticking a 1800 degree orange hot heat sources where it was never designed to go is going to keep temps cooler than BMW's design flies in the face of logic.

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    You would be the only one to notice this if that is the case, a top mount is going to keep much more heat in the engine bay, the N54 engine bay is designed with the turbos on the bottom, and such is much more efficient at keeping it out of the engine bay in that configuration. BMW spends millions of dollars on heat management as it is of utmost importance, to say people welding manifolds together, and sticking a 1800 degree orange hot heat sources where it was never designed to go is going to keep temps cooler than BMW's design flies in the face of logic.
    I'm not sure if he's talking about heat, or just oil temps. I do agree with him though. Stock turbos I'd sit at 230-240* F oil temp, now with the top mount, I'm at 200-210.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, S55s, N63s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    You got it boss, I totally understand. So far, no. Terrys car is a factory freak man. At 12 psi testing his car with the 5862, I would need to be at 15+psi on my 6465 to keep up. I'm going to guess the weight is that much of a difference. I need to shed weight in my car.

    Now with his new setup comp 6465 and new 1bar wastegate springs, be ready for some more numbers very soon. I'm about to go drop off his car back to him and pick mine up to swap the springs on mine as well.
    car is going to be absolutely bananas i think... he just knows how to tune and how to set up a car perfectly. Never understand how his car is WAY faster than it should be lol...

    guy traps 129 with RBs... who else does that lol 125 stock turbos ... etc
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
    Current - 16 Jeep Wrangler - Few Mods
    Looking for a n54 project e90/e82

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    I'm not sure if he's talking about heat, or just oil temps. I do agree with him though. Stock turbos I'd sit at 230-240* F oil temp, now with the top mount, I'm at 200-210.

    I think this just has to do with the turbos themselves, not the manifold. The larger ST is going to heat the oil less than the small twins. Plus the charge air is going to be cooler leaving the larger ST, etc etc. It all adds up. Running 18-19psi in the stockers creates a ton of heat.

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    I'm not sure if he's talking about heat, or just oil temps. I do agree with him though. Stock turbos I'd sit at 230-240* F oil temp, now with the top mount, I'm at 200-210.
    On the PTF track car the top mount setup was way hotter. 2-3 laps would cause oil temp induced limp modes and the heat cracked a couple valve cover gaskets. Could just be the difference between 20 minute track sessions and short highway pulls, though.
    Click here to enlarge
    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  8. #58
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    I don't see how turbo placement could effect oil temps. If the top mount gets too hot it could melt the hood paint, near by plastic, etc. I've seen bottom mounts melt AC lines, WW necks, etc. Proper heat shielding is required for either kit IMHO. The nice thing about a bottom mount with regard to heat management is at least you're starting in the same general turbo location as stock so lots of that shielding is already there. On the other hand I've not had any heat management issues with my top mount kit in socal (warm) weather doing repeated long runs up to 160-170mph on the runway.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    You got it boss, I totally understand. So far, no. Terrys car is a factory freak man. At 12 psi testing his car with the 5862, I would need to be at 15+psi on my 6465 to keep up. I'm going to guess the weight is that much of a difference. I need to shed weight in my car.

    Now with his new setup comp 6465 and new 1bar wastegate springs, be ready for some more numbers very soon. I'm about to go drop off his car back to him and pick mine up to swap the springs on mine as well.
    I'll get it back on some scales soon. Last time (pre single turbo) it came in at 3250# with the seats all out. I'm around 200# with laptop and helmet. So around a 3450# race weight.

    PTF says their race car 135i is 2500#! Would be nice to get another 200# (or 750#) of weight off the car but I'm out of easy ideas. Everything else seems expensive or has a trade off.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Njz Click here to enlarge
    @Sticky Guest vendor this man ASAP!!!!!!
    It's fine man he's in the guest vendor tier and he contacted me about becoming a vendor.

    E-mail me if you need anything @andy_divers

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    I'm not sure if he's talking about heat, or just oil temps. I do agree with him though. Stock turbos I'd sit at 230-240* F oil temp, now with the top mount, I'm at 200-210.
    Now you're just comparing stock frame to large frame. Even in the florida heat I'm not seeing beyond 220*. would have to check that vid I just did again to see what it was during the pull. Of course, I also have a thermo delete plate and larger oil lines, so more capacity.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

    Click here to enlarge

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ST54 Click here to enlarge
    That's the easy part, a new wastegate dump pipe can be reconstructed to clear the rack. The biggest hurdle for all top mount kits have been trying to get the downpipe to clear.

    Am definitely going for this when the sale opens!
    how about if a single large (say, 4") downpipe can't clear.. how about 2 slightly smaller ones splitting not longer after the turbo?
    boop

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    how about if a single large (say, 4") downpipe can't clear.. how about 2 slightly smaller ones splitting not longer after the turbo?
    Those 2 splitting shortly right after the turbo doesn't get in the way of the rack since its in a more inwards and more importantly LOWER overall position. The rack is actually right in the way shortly how the wastegate pipe exits towards the fender section of the chassis. Like I said, a new wastegate pipe is all that is needed to clear it. Downpipe with the same config as what is shown here is fine.

  14. #64
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    the recirc version may be the answer the next car going on the rack to get this kit is getting the dump tube recirc. we will keep you posted on the fit of it

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    I'm not sure if he's talking about heat, or just oil temps. I do agree with him though. Stock turbos I'd sit at 230-240* F oil temp, now with the top mount, I'm at 200-210.
    *wild guess*

    stock turbos are being pushed WAAAAY out of efficiency range, putting more heat than you'd like into the oil.. where the nice efficient singles no one is yet completely screwing to 110% on... aren't?
    boop

  16. #66
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    Not sure if I missed it, but what turbo is on the car?

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ST54 Click here to enlarge
    Those 2 splitting shortly right after the turbo doesn't get in the way of the rack since its in a more inwards and more importantly LOWER overall position. The rack is actually right in the way shortly how the wastegate pipe exits towards the fender section of the chassis. Like I said, a new wastegate pipe is all that is needed to clear it. Downpipe with the same config as what is shown here is fine.
    sorry i was talking more for top mounts, my bad

    yeah seems pretty clear with a bottom mount that it's not the downpipe that's the issue haha
    boop

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    On the PTF track car the top mount setup was way hotter. 2-3 laps would cause oil temp induced limp modes and the heat cracked a couple valve cover gaskets. Could just be the difference between 20 minute track sessions and short highway pulls, though.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Now you're just comparing stock frame to large frame. Even in the florida heat I'm not seeing beyond 220*. would have to check that vid I just did again to see what it was during the pull. Of course, I also have a thermo delete plate and larger oil lines, so more capacity.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    *wild guess*

    stock turbos are being pushed WAAAAY out of efficiency range, putting more heat than you'd like into the oil.. where the nice efficient singles no one is yet completely screwing to 110% on... aren't?
    I'm not talking about the car taking a beating etc after track session or after pulls. Just normal driving on a daily basis, stock turbos oil temp sat at 230-240. Now with the single on regular daily driving its 200-210 lol. Regular everyday normal driving oil temps, that is what I'm talking about.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    Not sure if I missed it, but what turbo is on the car?
    6262

  20. #70
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    @Sigma 3 we are going to put a top mount with a 90mm on yours Nan said he wanted to play on the highway with you :-)

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cloakedm3 Click here to enlarge
    @Sigma 3 we are going to put a top mount with a 90mm on yours Nan said he wanted to play on the highway with you :-)
    Ha ! would need a 200 shot to spool it. I have been awake since I left the shop. I hoping i can make my way to KS to hear this thing on the rollers!

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sigma 3 Click here to enlarge
    Ha ! would need a 200 shot to spool it. I have been awake since I left the shop. I hoping i can make my way to KS to hear this thing on the rollers!
    its back at our shop now if you want to go for a ride....your car is up next

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I don't see how turbo placement could effect oil temps. If the top mount gets too hot it could melt the hood paint, near by plastic, etc. I've seen bottom mounts melt AC lines, WW necks, etc. Proper heat shielding is required for either kit IMHO. The nice thing about a bottom mount with regard to heat management is at least you're starting in the same general turbo location as stock so lots of that shielding is already there. On the other hand I've not had any heat management issues with my top mount kit in socal (warm) weather doing repeated long runs up to 160-170mph on the runway.
    Depends on what the engine bay temps are. Heat is going to go from hotter locations to cooler ones. So, if any part of the engine is cooler than the surrounding air, it's going to absorb that heat and transfer it into the coolant and oil systems.

    Maybe something you really only see on extended beating sessions like road courses, but the fact that it occurs is enough reason to consider it.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mycoupe Click here to enlarge
    Depends on what the engine bay temps are. Heat is going to go from hotter locations to cooler ones. So, if any part of the engine is cooler than the surrounding air, it's going to absorb that heat and transfer it into the coolant and oil systems.

    Maybe something you really only see on extended beating sessions like road courses, but the fact that it occurs is enough reason to consider it.
    The oil is essentially coolant and comes in contact with the hottest parts of the engine before going through it's heat exchanger. It's going to be passing heat out to the rest of the engine bay as it circulates IMHO. Using your theory though if the argument is the short runner bottom mount puts more heat in to the turbine then it seems that would ultimately result in higher oil temps.

    I understand the road race thing but dedicated race cars have larger external oil coolers, no condenser, special ducting and ventilation, etc. Their heat management is not really applicable to non-race cars.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The oil is essentially coolant and comes in contact with the hottest parts of the engine before going through it's heat exchanger. It's going to be passing heat out to the rest of the engine bay as it circulates IMHO. Using your theory though if the argument is the short runner bottom mount puts more heat in to the turbine then it seems that would ultimately result in higher oil temps.

    I understand the road race thing but dedicated race cars have larger external oil coolers, no condenser, special ducting and ventilation, etc. Their heat management is not really applicable to non-race cars.
    I guess the best way to find out which direction the Heat is traveling would be if you throw a couple thermocouples in your engine bay around the area between your turbo, manifold and engine and go flog the thing for a bit and compare the temps you see at the thermocouples to the temps you see on the oil temp gauge. Would be interesting data. Also, I wonder if some of the increase in oil temp couldn't have come from the oil cooler lines being pretty close to where the front mount sits. That radiant heat could certainly put a damper on the effectiveness of the oil cooler.

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