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Thread: AD Engineering Single turbo kit

              
  1. #151
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
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    A full stand alone would be very cool and I welcome it but the AP works wonderfully for the time being.
    Agreed. This is where I stand also.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    Calling the AP coupled with Race logic on the N54 a Band aid at best is one of the most exaggerated things I have heard in a while. Hey we applaud you for wanting to go stand alone, looking forward to it. I am a full supporter of standalones and full control. I just do not see a real need for it until we are pushing 950-1000WHP. But if you want to be the first, more power to ya
    We all like being first and its even better when you are first and get it right. 950 to 1000whp is not very far out not with the advances everybody is having and to wait until its needed to try and find that solution to control it would also not be good. Andy is right what works for some does not work for others that being said we all have the same goal in mind. we just all have different ways of getting from point A to B. options is what gives us all the opportunity to have our own business. if we all sold the same product it would be pretty tough to compare apples to apples we would all end up having a big race to zero at the end of the day. Andy and i have a lot of respect for all of the vendors on here and appreciate all the advise and knowledge that we have got from everyone and look forward to see what the future holds.

  3. #153
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    Calling the AP coupled with Race logic on the N54 a Band aid at best is one of the most exaggerated things I have heard in a while. Hey we applaud you for wanting to go stand alone, looking forward to it. I am a full supporter of standalones and full control. I just do not see a real need for it until we are pushing 950-1000WHP. But if you want to be the first, more power to ya
    what's race logic? I know they make VBOX, but what do they make for this context?
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
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    what's race logic? I know they make VBOX, but what do they make for this context?
    Race logic is Cobb’s proprietary backend tinkering that allows the end user to push beyond the ~18psi boost ceiling.

  5. #155
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
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    AFAIK the only two things missing are TCU flashing/tuning capabilities and proper boost control tuning. Boost control is not a big deal as you'll need to add something to run additional injectors anyway, unless you go with the VTT pump option. If that's the case, you could run a Cobb and a boost controller of your choice, like the Greddy for example, and be good to go.

    BTW, unless you've been living under a rock for the past year or so, the N54 platform IS a completely different story. There is nothing holding anyone back now from doing a "sky's the limit" sort of build. All engine parts are available for full out builds, fueling can be taken care of, literally everything has some sort of option now.
    TCU
    Boost based system instead of load based
    No Lift Shift
    Launch Control
    On the fly Map switching
    Anything else on the other platforms that they've come up with like sensor changes etc.

    They basically have turned other platforms into a hacked version of a standalone EMS. Everything that sucked about them they changed.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, BMS DCI, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

  6. #156
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
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    TCU
    Boost based system instead of load based
    No Lift Shift
    Launch Control
    On the fly Map switching
    Anything else on the other platforms that they've come up with like sensor changes etc.

    They basically have turned other platforms into a hacked version of a standalone EMS. Everything that sucked about them they changed.
    gotcha, 3 of those I would lump into TCU flashing, but I hear ya, and I already said boost, and didn't know on the fly map switching could be done on a flash tune. That'd be pretty cool
    2009 335i coupe PARTING OUT!


  7. #157
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
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    Race logic is Cobb’s proprietary backend tinkering that allows the end user to push beyond the ~18psi boost ceiling.
    huh?

    when did that come out? I've only heard of ATR/ATP (accesstuner race).. ATP is the one that lets you go past 18psi i thought? (p for professional)

    google has nothing on 'cobb race logic'?
    boop

  8. #158
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
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    TCU
    Boost based system instead of load based
    No Lift Shift
    Launch Control
    On the fly Map switching
    Anything else on the other platforms that they've come up with like sensor changes etc.

    They basically have turned other platforms into a hacked version of a standalone EMS. Everything that sucked about them they changed.
    what's the advantage of boost based vs load based?

    i thought that load based.. while more cumbersome/complicated, was the latest/greatest method of tuning?
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
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    what's the advantage of boost based vs load based?

    i thought that load based.. while more cumbersome/complicated, was the latest/greatest method of tuning?
    I would say load based isn't bad in certain circumstances but you can see from the past few years of the issues people have had with boost oscillation, boost spikes, people trying to reach certain boost targets. With small turbo's running past their true efficiency it just doesn't make sense and isn't the easiest. Boost based systems are way easier to deal with.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, BMS DCI, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

  10. #160
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
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    I would say load based isn't bad in certain circumstances but you can see from the past few years of the issues people have had with boost oscillation, boost spikes, people trying to reach certain boost targets. With small turbo's running past their true efficiency it just doesn't make sense and isn't the easiest. Boost based systems are way easier to deal with.
    fair enough

    so pretty much just easier to tune, and likely no real downsides?
    boop

  11. #161
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
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    I would say load based isn't bad in certain circumstances but you can see from the past few years of the issues people have had with boost oscillation, boost spikes, people trying to reach certain boost targets. With small turbo's running past their true efficiency it just doesn't make sense and isn't the easiest. Boost based systems are way easier to deal with.
    If you want to go back to boost based just buy a manual boost controller and a boost controlled fuel pressure regulator. The load based tuning is a lot more robust the issues you bring up are hardware not tuning issues. I would not switch to any standalone on this platform that didn't allow for two bank and load based tuning.

  12. #162
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ingeniator Click here to enlarge
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    If you want to go back to boost based just buy a manual boost controller and a boost controlled fuel pressure regulator. The load based tuning is a lot more robust the issues you bring up are hardware not tuning issues. I would not switch to any standalone on this platform that didn't allow for two bank and load based tuning.
    Most people here are already tuning based on boost either by using a JB4, Procede or manipulating the load target and other tables until they hit the boost levels they are comfortable with depending on fuel being used. Boost based you can change turbo's and other hardware and always hit your desired boost level and have a pretty smooth delivery with almost no retuning. Load based you will have to retune almost every time to get to your desired boost level. Boost vs Load has nothing to do with how many banks are being read independently or how the fuel is managed.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, BMS DCI, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
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    Most people here are already tuning based on boost either by using a JB4, Procede or manipulating the load target and other tables until they hit the boost levels they are comfortable with depending on fuel being used. Boost based you can change turbo's and other hardware and always hit your desired boost level and have a pretty smooth delivery with almost no retuning. Load based you will have to retune almost every time to get to your desired boost level. Boost vs Load has nothing to do with how many banks are being read independently or how the fuel is managed.
    I realize that how many banks are controlled and how fuel is managed has nothing to do with the boost vs load. I was just stating I wouldn't switch to a standalone that didn't allow for two bank operation. As for the boost vs load. As I'm sure your aware boost is affected by altitude. If you use load based tuning it calculates the airflow at set engine speeds independently of turbo spool and altitude so you always have true airflow. The only reason I see to go to a full blown standalone is to maintain load based tuning with aftermarket turbo systems. If you are going to stick to boost targeting you can just use any variety of boost controller available and save 5K.

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    Well, went back on the dyno friday to play with some things. Final Hp was 550hp on pump gas. I think this about the max for this setup on 92oct with the stock map sensor. It was 18psi creeping to 20psi at redline. The biggest thing I took away from this session is boost control. I am having great success controlling boost with the factory solenoid and cobb. Im still on the 11.6psi (iirc) wg spring and I'm able to run spring pressure all the way past the stock map.( I put a bunch of base duty cycle in it and hit 23psi and shut me down. It was nice to know that it capable of it. I have ordered a few aftermarket solenoids to try, but at this point the stock solenoid is working so well I'm going to leave it alone.

    Torque curve still looks like a $#@!ty mustang or 2j so i played with the cams a bit and saw very little change. The car still has a stock exhaust so there might be power to be had there.

    Printer on the dyno wasn't working. Have go back on Thursday and see if I can get some printouts or at least some screen shots.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by andy_divers Click here to enlarge
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    Well, went back on the dyno friday to play with some things. Final Hp was 550hp on pump gas. I think this about the max for this setup on 92oct with the stock map sensor. It was 18psi creeping to 20psi at redline. The biggest thing I took away from this session is boost control. I am having great success controlling boost with the factory solenoid and cobb. Im still on the 11.6psi (iirc) wg spring and I'm able to run spring pressure all the way past the stock map.( I put a bunch of base duty cycle in it and hit 23psi and shut me down. It was nice to know that it capable of it. I have ordered a few aftermarket solenoids to try, but at this point the stock solenoid is working so well I'm going to leave it alone.

    Torque curve still looks like a $#@!ty mustang or 2j so i played with the cams a bit and saw very little change. The car still has a stock exhaust so there might be power to be had there.

    Printer on the dyno wasn't working. Have go back on Thursday and see if I can get some printouts or at least some screen shots.
    Andy, send me an email. I did so much testing on the stock solenoid, it works but I found why it won't hold proper boost. I found a solenoid that is plug and play, same hz as the stock one and will hold boost. I will send you one to test.
    Vargas Turbocharger Technologies
    N55 World Record: 560WTQ, 11.4 ET / 123MPH
    N54 Stock Frame (100% E85) World Record: 645WHP / 654WTQ
    N54 (ACN 91 octane only) World Record, Stock Motor: 573WHP / 537WTQ
    Website - Email


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    [QUOTE=VargasTurboTech;586521]??? Takes up more space? A properly built TS manifold takes no more space than a SS manifold does, the problem is the N54 is stuck in the pile of snakes manifold game right now, its good to see it may finally be ending. The manifold below takes up basically no space, and costs $295 dollars, anyone else want to argue twin scroll takes up more room and is expensive?
    [/QUOTE
    I am not an expert but that is not a twin scroll manifold, but a devided one. a true twin scroll groups the runners by firing order I do believe.

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    [QUOTE=Sigma 3;590638]
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    ??? Takes up more space? A properly built TS manifold takes no more space than a SS manifold does, the problem is the N54 is stuck in the pile of snakes manifold game right now, its good to see it may finally be ending. The manifold below takes up basically no space, and costs $295 dollars, anyone else want to argue twin scroll takes up more room and is expensive?
    [/QUOTE
    I am not an expert but that is not a twin scroll manifold, but a devided one. a true twin scroll groups the runners by firing order I do believe.

    The firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4 so it actually works so that no subsequent firings are from the same bank. Those manifolds Tony referred to are not tubular nor equal length, but the firing order works though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sigma 3 Click here to enlarge
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    I am not an expert but that is not a twin scroll manifold, but a devided one. a true twin scroll groups the runners by firing order I do believe.
    It is most definitely a twinscroll manifold.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    Andy, send me an email. I did so much testing on the stock solenoid, it works but I found why it won't hold proper boost. I found a solenoid that is plug and play, same hz as the stock one and will hold boost. I will send you one to test.
    Care to post up and share which solenoid it is?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by andy_divers Click here to enlarge
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    Well, went back on the dyno friday to play with some things. Final Hp was 550hp on pump gas. I think this about the max for this setup on 92oct with the stock map sensor. It was 18psi creeping to 20psi at redline. The biggest thing I took away from this session is boost control. I am having great success controlling boost with the factory solenoid and cobb. Im still on the 11.6psi (iirc) wg spring and I'm able to run spring pressure all the way past the stock map.( I put a bunch of base duty cycle in it and hit 23psi and shut me down. It was nice to know that it capable of it. I have ordered a few aftermarket solenoids to try, but at this point the stock solenoid is working so well I'm going to leave it alone.

    Torque curve still looks like a $#@!ty mustang or 2j so i played with the cams a bit and saw very little change. The car still has a stock exhaust so there might be power to be had there.

    Printer on the dyno wasn't working. Have go back on Thursday and see if I can get some printouts or at least some screen shots.
    Did you disable spool mode? I find it easier to work with one intake and one exhaust vanos table with ST's. Plus, unless you rescale the X axis in the spool table, it's not doing you much good on a larger turbo anyway as it maxes at 100 load I believe? With proper vanos, you definitely should have noticed an increase in spool. Can you post up screenshots of your two vanos tables, and a log showing RPM, boost, load, and vanos intake / exh? I'll see if I can help you out here

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    [QUOTE=Sigma 3;590638]
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    The manifold below takes up basically no space, and costs $295 dollars, anyone else want to argue twin scroll takes up more room and is expensive?
    Someone bring this to the marketplace already.
    E92 Bren Tune
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  20. #170
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    [QUOTE=Torgus;590673]
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sigma 3 Click here to enlarge
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    Someone bring this to the marketplace already.
    I am waiting Click here to enlarge I sent SteedSpeed an email about a month ago and told them they should bring theirs back to production now that fueling / tuning issues are basically sorted, but I didn't hear back from them. Maybe if we get enough people to contact them? The necessary O2 bungs for each bank could easily be added to that design, as well as either 2 wastegate flanges (one above each bank of "logs"), or 1 wastegate in the middle that is just divided up to the flange Click here to enlarge

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    [QUOTE=jyamona;590676]
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
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    I am waiting Click here to enlarge I sent SteedSpeed an email about a month ago and told them they should bring theirs back to production now that fueling / tuning issues are basically sorted, but I didn't hear back from them. Maybe if we get enough people to contact them? The necessary O2 bungs for each bank could easily be added to that design, as well as either 2 wastegate flanges (one above each bank of "logs"), or 1 wastegate in the middle that is just divided up to the flange Click here to enlarge

    Aren't those two bungs above the flange for the 02 sensors? They look like almost the right place, maybe just need to be moved back an inch or two. I like the idea of 1 wastegate for costs and simplicities sake.

    I mean a manifold of this style does not have to be cast or CNC'd you could make a working one out of weld els... @andy_divers should do this.

    What is steedspeed's email address and what did they call this model? I'll email them. Interesting the webpage has been taken down for the manifold...

    Click here to enlarge
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    [QUOTE=Torgus;590677]
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jyamona Click here to enlarge
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    Aren't those two bungs above the flange for the 02 sensors? They look like almost the right place, maybe just need to be moved back an inch or two. I like the idea of 1 wastegate for costs and simplicities sake.

    I mean a manifold of this style does not have to be cast or CNC'd you could make a working one out of weld els... @andy_divers should do this.

    What is steedspeed's email address and what did they call this model? I'll email them. Interesting the webpage has been taken down for the manifold...
    Yea they look to be for O2 sensors. I think ours need to be spaced out "slightly" a-la what PTF did with theirs. However, the heat thrown off a machined vs tubular would be different. 1 wastegate would work fine, and it can even retain FULL twinscroll capabilities, as long as it stays divided up to the actual flange. AGP made something along these lines for the Evo X. Their manifold design was a bit restrictive, but people still made good power. You can see it here:

    Click here to enlarge


    The contact email I found for SteedSpeed is steedl@telus.net. I wasn't sure of a "product name", I just said bring back the twinscroll T4 manifold for the N54 as the market would support it now 100%.

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    He must have dropped this for a good reason.

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    Andy when is the 6667 going on?

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    The manifold is posted is 100% a twin scroll manifold, the are also called divided, as long as the firing order is bank as to not interfere with each other it is a true twin scroll manifold, on a straight 6 it happens to group the front 3 and rear 3 together making it very easy to develop a TS manifold for them. As far as the solenoid, no I do not wish to post it up as we will be using exclusively for some of our projects.

    This is interesting, I had a couple lengthy discussions with owner of Steed Speed, and he never even mentioned they used to make an N54 manifold.
    Vargas Turbocharger Technologies
    N55 World Record: 560WTQ, 11.4 ET / 123MPH
    N54 Stock Frame (100% E85) World Record: 645WHP / 654WTQ
    N54 (ACN 91 octane only) World Record, Stock Motor: 573WHP / 537WTQ
    Website - Email


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