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Thread: Race gas or E85

  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    The in cylinder cooling properties of DI contribute to an increase in volumetric efficiency over PFI, and E85 compounds the benefit. With a good tune and enough turbo that's probably why Tony saw 40whp gains, that's not surprising at all. IIRC e85 showed like 6 or 7% increase in VE over conventional gas when using direct injection, vs PFI that showed no change going from gas to E85. All due to in cylinder cooling, and the hotter the air temps the bigger the difference was. Good stuff.
    Whoops didn't see this. As always better said than I could have said it..Click here to enlarge

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    MS109 unless you get an ethanol race gas blend. Either or is great really the main thing is making sure your fuel system can keep up.
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    Considering I have two very close friends both of which ordered your HPFP upgrade, and have yet to receive it without ETA that would make you the only person in the world to have your pump that can flow that at those HP number consistently it's pretty biased to tell this thread creator to run something he can't... He asked about a mix of E85 or race gas (I would imply from that that he can't run 100% E85, especially seeing as he said stock LPFP before you posted this) Your would HP car as seen in your signature below your post was ERC 109 (race gas). The most HP (World record car and HP number was on race gas and never distributed...which is no longer the world record BTW 753WHP on stock motor would be to my understanding) That post is nothing but you stroking your own, no on has your pump minus possibly beta testers so why tell someone to run something they can't, yes there are other options for fueling realistically the only thing we can get a hold of is LPFP upgrade which goes so far. Bashing others trying to be helpful isn't the way to build a good reputation especially when people are asking for help and you brag your set up is better and they are dumb or wrong, to be straight to the point. Not arguing 100% E85 may not be better but I am saying it wasn't the purpose of this thread.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by djpaulie Click here to enlarge
    Considering I have two very close friends both of which ordered your HPFP upgrade, and have yet to receive it without ETA that would make you the only person in the world to have your pump that can flow that at those HP number consistently it's pretty biased to tell this thread creator to run something he can't... He asked about a mix of E85 or race gas (I would imply from that that he can't run 100% E85, especially seeing as he said stock LPFP before you posted this) Your would HP car as seen in your signature below your post was ERC 109 (race gas). The most HP (World record car and HP number was on race gas and never distributed...which is no longer the world record BTW 753WHP on stock motor would be to my understanding) That post is nothing but you stroking your own, no on has your pump minus possibly beta testers so why tell someone to run something they can't, yes there are other options for fueling realistically the only thing we can get a hold of is LPFP upgrade which goes so far. Bashing others trying to be helpful isn't the way to build a good reputation especially when people are asking for help and you brag your set up is better and they are dumb or wrong, to be straight to the point. Not arguing 100% E85 may not be better but I am saying it wasn't the purpose of this thread.
    If you say so bud. From where I sit it looked to me like the OP was asking which fuel was the better option, I will hands down say E85 every time. Also taking a look at my sig, yes it was done on MS 109, because at the time we had no way to run E85 for those levels. I can safely say I will never run MS 109 in another N54 we build or help build unless the customer insists on it paying $12 a gallon for it. Also from where I am sitting it just looks like you want to argue, you have a whopping total of 10 posts and you all of a sudden are an N54 expert, not untypical for internet forums. As far as the record, 753 was done on a dyno that is well documented to read 10-15% higher than a DJ depending on who you ask. The op never wanted to put it on a DJ, but using the documented correction numbers he would be in the mid 600's, but that is all moot as Shiv holds the record be a few WHP anyways, we still hold the TQ record for upgraded twins or single as far as I know. If you love to argue, you have come to the right place as this place seems to breed trolls. Either way my point stands, E85>MS109 in every way except amount of fuel required. Ps, let your "very close" friends know they can drop me an email at anytime for an update on the pump kits. Cheers

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    lol
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    They both understand this and have E-mailed you when you took payment no thankyou/confirmation or recipt was sent. When asked about the pump progress your response was "We have no updates at this time progress, As soon as we do we will announce them. Progress is coming nicely", BTW I know you think the "very close" friend thing was cute if you need credentials I can let you know I've known him since 3rd grade and we are roomates currently or I could just post your E-mails that he has of the conversations with you if you'd prefer, glad you have time to post on here and all over the forums but not update people that have handed you almost $1000 non-refundable according to you trusting you may spend a little more time producing and contacting them with the updates. Modern E-mail you can group people's e-mail that have a product and take 5-10 minutes out of your busy 3,xxx post time schedule. Don't worry Mr. Vargas post count is knowlage... LOL

    P.S. Being I work in a dealership with knowlageable staff I work with tehnicians that could talk you in circles if you get my implications and they haven't ever posted on a forum, don't be naieve

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    @VargasTurboTech

    pls reply, k thx
    Click here to enlarge
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    LOL well played Wescuddles, well played
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    Well if he as inclined to respond as he is to release stage 3 turbos we may be waiting a bit... #stillwaiting #someday #bangbangshotsfired

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    this $#@! again -_-

    on the united 'race E85' front.. just read through their facebook page yesterday.. so damn cool! guess it's cheaper to make the V8 supercar fuel in bulk.. plus the marketing value of being 'legit race fuel'.

    their '107 octane' claim isn't anywhere near reality though, the RON testing machine doesn't test alcohol fuels enough to compare properly to standard fuels from what i've read.. and it should be more like 116 race gas.
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Interesting, whenever we talk about E85 nothing is ever mentioned about the benefits between E85 corn vs E85 sugarcane. One is obviously superior to the other.

    Most people think when they hear E85 it denotes corn corn corn fuel.
    Why is one obviously superior?
    Curious as the E85 here is made from sugar cane.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Nugs Click here to enlarge
    Why is one obviously superior?
    Curious as the E85 here is made from sugar cane.
    For starters

    http://biowesleyan.wordpress.com/fir...based-ethanol/

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Nugs Click here to enlarge
    Why is one obviously superior?
    Curious as the E85 here is made from sugar cane.
    i believe corn is superior as the cane can have particulate matter that clogs $#@!?

    but sugarcane is better for the environment by miles

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    gah took me a while to work out the costs properly

    so corn is a bit cheaper? even when it takes 2 acres of corn to produce the same ethanol as 1 acre of sugarcane?
    Last edited by Flinchy; 08-21-2014 at 01:49 AM.
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge


    gah took me a while to work out the costs properly

    so corn is a bit cheaper? even when it takes 2 acres of corn to produce the same ethanol as 1 acre of sugarcane?
    Yup thats what it seems like. It all politics, and preserving traditions. People are kept in the dark just about everything.

    http://www.cleanandgreenfuel.com/Why...andnotCorn.asp

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by djpaulie Click here to enlarge
    They both understand this and have E-mailed you when you took payment no thankyou/confirmation or recipt was sent. When asked about the pump progress your response was "We have no updates at this time progress, As soon as we do we will announce them. Progress is coming nicely", BTW I know you think the "very close" friend thing was cute if you need credentials I can let you know I've known him since 3rd grade and we are roomates currently or I could just post your E-mails that he has of the conversations with you if you'd prefer, glad you have time to post on here and all over the forums but not update people that have handed you almost $1000 non-refundable according to you trusting you may spend a little more time producing and contacting them with the updates. Modern E-mail you can group people's e-mail that have a product and take 5-10 minutes out of your busy 3,xxx post time schedule. Don't worry Mr. Vargas post count is knowlage... LOL

    P.S. Being I work in a dealership with knowlageable staff I work with tehnicians that could talk you in circles if you get my implications and they haven't ever posted on a forum, don't be naieve
    Oh really, I always love these, so let me get this correct. These two customers are totally unhappy with the process and have not received any sort of response since they have ordered, but we have not heard this from them. First of all not possible as every order taken is done so personally by me or another one of our sales staff, confirmation / thank you emails are always sent, every time bar none (usually included with the original invoice). So if they are unhappy they can email me as I think one did yesterday and I responded within 5 minutes as we always do. Secondly no we are not obligated to update anything on these forums, and honestly its people like you who have made us update less and less. When we have an update we post it, we will not be posting random updates every week, there is not need and it just feeds the trolls. As far as the people who can ONLY focus on stage 3 lets get some facts together here. We produce close to 25 products for the N54/55 we have been shipping and are shipping ALL of them except the Stage 3's which are not done and every single customer offered a refund if wanted. YET all the trolls can ever focus on is, hey where is that. Not the fact that we have shipped over 150 sets of N54 turbos in all stages, over 30 N55 turbo upgrades, not too mention, many flanges, etc, etc, etc. I am pretty sure I know who your friends are, I can easily post up the thank you and confirmation emails as well my timely responses to their emails if you would like. Also when someone emails asking for an update and their isn't one, we do not sugar coat and make things sound nice. We are straight forward and tell them no updates at this time, when their is one you will know. Pretty simple. Cheers

    Ps. *Naive
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 08-21-2014 at 09:08 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by djpaulie Click here to enlarge
    I may well be wrong, I am by no means an expert in fuels, but to my understanding E85 is slang for a high ethanol content fuel produced from fermentation of cellulose sugar. As not all states require that E85 is minimum of 85% ethanol though ideally it would be. The difference between sugar cane ethanol and corn based ethanol is minimal to none as ethanol is produced by fermenting cellulose sugar with yeast the only difference between the two is where it originates, corn based E85 starts as corn and is ground up and mixed with water then cooked to produce sugar that contains cellulose, where as sugar cane E85 is made from not just sugar cane but many by products of various mass manufactures like paper by products of twigs and other plants that contain this same cellulose when broken down then the same process of fermenting the sugar with yeast and creating ethanol.

    Over all both forms are made by fermenting cellulose sugar into ethanol largest difference at the moment is cost effectiveness to produce corn at this time is much more cost effective from a fuel company stand point.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Oh really, I always love these, so let me get this correct. These two customers are totally unhappy with the process and have not received any sort of response since they have ordered, but we have not heard this from them. First of all not possible as every order taken is done so personally by me or another one of our sales staff, confirmation / thank you emails are always sent, every time bar none (usually included with the original invoice). So if they are unhappy they can email me as I think one did yesterday and I responded within 5 minutes as we always do. Secondly no we are not obligated to update anything on these forums, and honestly its people like you who have made us update less and less. When we have an update we post it, we will not be posting random updates every week, there is not need and it just feeds the trolls. As far as the people who can ONLY focus on stage 3 lets get some facts together here. We produce close to 25 products for the N54/55 we have been shipping and are shipping ALL of them except the Stage 3's which are not done and every single customer offered a refund if wanted. YET all the trolls can ever focus on is, hey where is that. Not the fact that we have shipped over 150 sets of N54 turbos in all stages, over 30 N55 turbo upgrades, not too mention, many flanges, etc, etc, etc. I am pretty sure I know who your friends are, I can easily post up the thank you and confirmation emails as well my timely responses to their emails if you would like. Also when someone emails asking for an update and their isn't one, we do not sugar coat and make things sound nice. We are straight forward and tell them no updates at this time, when their is one you will know. Pretty simple. Cheers

    Ps. *Naive

    I understand reading is hard but when I say that you should E-mail the people with orders in a group W-mail and update them weakly that doesn't mean posing on the forums nor did I ever mention it. No you shouldn't post it on the forum unless you have an update, yes it does feed the trolls as I said above E-mail your customers directly not make them hunt on the forum for an update for something they spend thousand on...

    You should read and process before replying erratic responses, and NO YOU DID NOT E-MAIL A RECIPT OR A THANK YOU AS DOUBLE CHECKED YESTERDAY EVENING... I'll post it later as I stated before if you should so desire. It's the internet age everything is documented and nothing is secret, run a good customer service and you should have nothing to fear. updates are "coming nicely", "going well", "look promising" those are sales tactics called word tracks used in over coming objections. You may think your tricky with you "not sugar coating" when really you are deflecting without a real answer.

    150 people is not hard to keep in touch with give modern forms of communication, I follow up and service 20+ a day you have assisted 150 in how long? I don't disagree it's a great product, looks good test well. Just needs to come with some better customer service

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by djpaulie Click here to enlarge
    I understand reading is hard but when I say that you should E-mail the people with orders in a group W-mail and update them weakly that doesn't mean posing on the forums nor did I ever mention it. No you shouldn't post it on the forum unless you have an update, yes it does feed the trolls as I said above E-mail your customers directly not make them hunt on the forum for an update for something they spend thousand on...

    You should read and process before replying erratic responses, and NO YOU DID NOT E-MAIL A RECIPT OR A THANK YOU AS DOUBLE CHECKED YESTERDAY EVENING... I'll post it later as I stated before if you should so desire. It's the internet age everything is documented and nothing is secret, run a good customer service and you should have nothing to fear. updates are "coming nicely", "going well", "look promising" those are sales tactics called word tracks used in over coming objections. You may think your tricky with you "not sugar coating" when really you are deflecting without a real answer.

    150 people is not hard to keep in touch with give modern forms of communication, I follow up and service 20+ a day you have assisted 150 in how long? I don't disagree it's a great product, looks good test well. Just needs to come with some better customer service
    Sir, this will be my last response to you, no idea who you are. You are not a customer, appreciate your opinion. We regularly are told by 99% of our customers that our customer service is some of the best they have ever received, yet you as a non customer is letting us know we need better customer service. Feel free to post whatever you would like, no interest in discussing this further.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Sir, this will be my last response to you, no idea who you are. You are not a customer, appreciate your opinion. We regularly are told by 99% of our customers that our customer service is some of the best they have ever received, yet you as a non customer is letting us know we need better customer service. Feel free to post whatever you would like, no interest in discussing this further.
    Fair enough Mr. Vargas, glad you appreciate my opinion don't forget anyone in the market to upgrade a turbo(s) or fuel pump is a potential customer...

    P.S. I went after you because you made an un provoked stab at me, may have been over the top or harsh but I'm not just going to sit there and pretend you weren't trying to disrespect me

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    Some people have too much pride to front a company. It's less about the mistakes you make in business but more how you handle them. I've said this before but tony needs to stick to turbo/fuel upgrades and have someone else front the customer relations side. Don't get me wrong VTT has great products and has been a leading developer in advancing this platform, but tony's poor public presence has held me back from purchasing his products.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by djpaulie Click here to enlarge
    They both understand this and have E-mailed you when you took payment no thankyou/confirmation or recipt was sent. When asked about the pump progress your response was "We have no updates at this time progress, As soon as we do we will announce them. Progress is coming nicely", BTW I know you think the "very close" friend thing was cute if you need credentials I can let you know I've known him since 3rd grade and we are roomates currently or I could just post your E-mails that he has of the conversations with you if you'd prefer, glad you have time to post on here and all over the forums but not update people that have handed you almost $1000 non-refundable according to you trusting you may spend a little more time producing and contacting them with the updates. Modern E-mail you can group people's e-mail that have a product and take 5-10 minutes out of your busy 3,xxx post time schedule. Don't worry Mr. Vargas post count is knowlage... LOL

    P.S. Being I work in a dealership with knowlageable staff I work with tehnicians that could talk you in circles if you get my implications and they haven't ever posted on a forum, don't be naieve
    Haha, really smart techs at a dealership.... it's a possibility, but if they're actually any good they'll be done with the dealership bull$#@! within 2 to 3 years. Most techs at these dealers (particularly BMW) aren't trained as highly as they used to be. Heck most BMW dealers only want a few STEP graduates because they have to pay BMW for each one. More and more dealers are filling themselves with FastTrack employees and leaving the big boy work to a few STEP techs. But generally speaking if you really know your stuff you will make a lot more in the private sector, and you won't have to jump through hoops to get things approved. Almost all techs that are really worth their salt leave dealers in 3-5 years.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tifosielia Click here to enlarge
    Haha, really smart techs at a dealership.... it's a possibility, but if they're actually any good they'll be done with the dealership bull$#@! within 2 to 3 years. Most techs at these dealers (particularly BMW) aren't trained as highly as they used to be. Heck most BMW dealers only want a few STEP graduates because they have to pay BMW for each one. More and more dealers are filling themselves with FastTrack employees and leaving the big boy work to a few STEP techs. But generally speaking if you really know your stuff you will make a lot more in the private sector, and you won't have to jump through hoops to get things approved. Almost all techs that are really worth their salt leave dealers in 3-5 years.
    True for the most part and yes there is plenty of that going on and there is a lot of BS and busy work. I can say for sure though some people do the job because they love it and stay because they are happy and comfortable. Not true for my but for some people it's not about the money. Part of it too in my particular location is there isn't a lot of private sector work and what little there is doesn't sway in favor of the techs. Locally where I am I wish this were different because it is very difficult to get parts or quality work performed particularly on modified cars which sucks.

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    What about mixing ms109 with E85?

    With RB's would mixing these two be more beneficial to make more power than just adding more e85?

    I see regularly that E70 is the highest, most people will run. So will race gas with an E70 mix of E85 yield more power?


    For example of your fuel system is starving but you can add more octane with ms109 does it get you much of an edge?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brendanrule Click here to enlarge
    What about mixing ms109 with E85?

    With RB's would mixing these two be more beneficial to make more power than just adding more e85?

    I see regularly that E70 is the highest, most people will run. So will race gas with an E70 mix of E85 yield more power?


    For example of your fuel system is starving but you can add more octane with ms109 does it get you much of an edge?
    Just save yourself some money and buy C85 rather than MS109.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ingeniator Click here to enlarge
    Just save yourself some money and buy C85 rather than MS109.
    C85 is great but why over MS109? Simply due to the ethanol content?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    C85 is great but why over MS109? Simply due to the ethanol content?
    C85 is already mixed with race gas. No point in buying MS109 and mixing with pump e85. Buy C85 and mix down to required percentage with pump or race gas if you can't run straight e85

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ingeniator Click here to enlarge
    C85 is already mixed with race gas. No point in buying MS109 and mixing with pump e85.
    Naturally but I thought we were talking E85 or MS109.
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