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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    I never like doing the NFL player comparison game, you have access to results at the pro level which makes it impossible to do a true apples to apples comparison. But with that said...Sproles the superior player but I like that parallel, think Hubert is a lower upside player but could fill a similar role. More playing strength and a more squat frame. Similar build all in all. Sproles catches the ball very well, cleanly and outside of his frame. I haven't seen that from Hubert but think he has it in him. As a runner they're in the same ballpark, Sproles is a really tough dude for what that's worth.
    Good thoughts. I agree that Sproles is the better player, but I feel like Hubert may be underrated. But I'm certainly nowhere near an expert.

    -Rich

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    This particular report is not mine, but I feel strongly about it and think itís a good example of the projection required to make in terms of scouting how a collegiate athlete will develop into a professional football player. Hereís a guy with big time production in a major conference, yet heís one of the larger projections at the position, which isnít what youíd normally expect considering the track record and 3 years of tape to look over.

    Davante Adams Ė Fresno State
    6.02 200 WR

    Positives:
    -Long, lean frame. Lacks ideal height but is not at all deficient there, solid 6.018 standing.
    -Possesses long arms and large hands. Plays taller than he is, competitive jump ball player who can climb the ladder and highpoint the ball.
    -Natural movement skills that translate on the field. Carries his weight easily, athletic runner in the open field. Has the hip and ankle flexion to force secondary defenders into taking poor angles to the ball carrier. Not a narrow base guy, moves with minimal effort. Heíll burn up the 3 step game.
    -Has some Emmanuel (Sanders) to him. Bigger, plays tougher.
    -Not a true track runner but above average vertical speed. 4.45 guy on tape. Flashes late separation on fades and gos.
    -Snares the ball cleanly for the most part. Has the hand strength to snatch the ball outside of his frame. Can make the circus catch.
    -Physical downfield blocker. Aggressive and relatively refined technique.

    Negatives:
    -V raw. Game needs so much development; program did not help him in that regard.
    -3 games in person, never saw him run half the routes on the tree. Itís all slips, smoke screen, verts, handful of slants and 3 step game. Literally do not know how well he understands out breaking concepts and have never seen him run one.
    -Lazy route runner. Coasts on ability, esp. against inferior competition. No question has the ability to sink and explode out of his stem. Needs someone to ride his ass on that. J flag on that, will need him to run full tree in March.
    -Big time production came by and in large against over-matched teams. Want to see more production against power teams.
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  3. #28
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    Giants FTW
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
    Giants FTW
    I would be VERY concerned about that team.

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  5. #30
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    Thoughts on Johnny Manziel?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    Thoughts on Johnny Manziel?
    I have a sense, yes. Can tell you there are many folks out there pouring over cutups of this kid. A very, very large projection being made. Give me a few mins to get some thoughts down, have them scribbled but never bothered to get something together on him.

    You a Texans fan?
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    I have a sense, yes. Can tell you there are many folks out there pouring over cutups of this kid. A very, very large projection being made. Give me a few mins to get some thoughts down, have them scribbled but never bothered to get something together on him.

    You a Texans fan?
    I'm more of a fantasy football fan. I grew up with the 90s Cowboys and and have been living in Houston for the past 6 1/2 years. It's been a rough 16 years :p
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  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    I'm more of a fantasy football fan. I grew up with the 90s Cowboys and and have been living in Houston for the past 6 1/2 years. It's been a rough 16 years :p
    I don't spend as much time on quarterbacks, so rather than provide my off the cuff thoughts I rang someone far smarter than myself and typed up what I could get down.


    Personally? I'm not a fan of the kid. But he's proven many people wrong, and may well prove me wrong.



    Smarter than people think...at the same time kid's a dumbass....clueless but understands it when the pads come on...not lazy he works at it...Reynolds swears up and down by him...Pisses me off he won't throw at LO who does he think he is?...he's listed 6.01 or something ya right. 200Lbs soaking wet kid needs to get in a weight room. So he'll always be a height liability but I think he has the moxie and feet to make it work. Like that he played against the Big12 and SEC for sure. Plus athlete with pretty special vision to break the pocket...Very light feet, moves around with little effort...Live arm...He's a see it, throw it guy..not an anticipation passer...zipcode accuracy and it's hot and cold...footwork is a joke but so is everyone's coming out...If you let him get outside, watch out...Can his frame take it though? I'm not so sure he's thinner than Griffin and that dude was broken by November.
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    I don't spend as much time on quarterbacks, so rather than provide my off the cuff thoughts I rang someone far smarter than myself and typed up what I could get down.


    Personally? I'm not a fan of the kid. But he's proven many people wrong, and may well prove me wrong.



    Smarter than people think...at the same time kid's a dumbass....clueless but understands it when the pads come on...not lazy he works at it...Reynolds swears up and down by him...Pisses me off he won't throw at LO who does he think he is?...he's listed 6.01 or something ya right. 200Lbs soaking wet kid needs to get in a weight room. So he'll always be a height liability but I think he has the moxie and feet to make it work. Like that he played against the Big12 and SEC for sure. Plus athlete with pretty special vision to break the pocket...Very light feet, moves around with little effort...Live arm...He's a see it, throw it guy..not an anticipation passer...zipcode accuracy and it's hot and cold...footwork is a joke but so is everyone's coming out...If you let him get outside, watch out...Can his frame take it though? I'm not so sure he's thinner than Griffin and that dude was broken by November.
    Agreed with all of that. I hope the Texas pick Bortles instead.
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  10. #35
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    I don't know what to think of Manziel I just don't see him being the next Russell Wilson like people seem to be thinking due to his height and mobility.

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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    Agreed with all of that. I hope the Texas pick Bortles instead.
    Be careful what you wish for. His game is as raw is they come. Pro style taken at face value, but dig a little deeper and you’ll see some serious issues pop up. Plus tools but he’s a ball of clay type prospect, will require the stars aligning for him to maximize ability. Like him more than Manziel though, and Texans have a strong roster core.

    If I’m Houston I’m going with Clowney and waiting for a better QB class. None of these QBs are particularly impressive IMO. Bridgewater the best of the group. Clowney could be special if he puts his head down and stays focused.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't know what to think of Manziel I just don't see him being the next Russell Wilson like people seem to be thinking due to his height and mobility.
    I’m not so sure Russell Wilson is the next Russell Wilson, if that makes any sense. Frankly he hasn’t played well since about October 2013. Surrounded by a truly loaded roster, offense is built on power running and shot plays in the passing game. I know it sounds absurd seeing as how he just beat Peyton Manning, but consider me a skeptic.
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    I’m not so sure Russell Wilson is the next Russell Wilson, if that makes any sense. Frankly he hasn’t played well since about October 2013. Surrounded by a truly loaded roster, offense is built on power running and shot plays in the passing game. I know it sounds absurd seeing as how he just beat Peyton Manning, but consider me a skeptic.
    I would agree with this he fell off toward the end of the season. He's young so we'll see.

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  13. #38
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    Not going to that zoo in Indy this year and couldn’t be happier. The combine is a total madhouse, extremely stressful and never as productive as one wants it to be. Grinding on some Florida based evals today, any other players ya’ll are interested in?

    Trivia: Why is the combine called the combine?
    A: There used to be several officially sanctioned scouting events across the country. They were uncoordinated and largely based on geography. So they were combined into what we have now, in beautiful Indy (not).
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  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Trivia: Why is the combine called the combine?
    A: There used to be several officially sanctioned scouting events across the country. They were uncoordinated and largely based on geography. So they were combined into what we have now, in beautiful Indy (not).
    I learned something today.

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    Some high level thoughts emerging on this class, took a first crack at a big board last night and some macro takeaways

    -This draft is stupid deep at WR. Could see upwards of half a dozen WRs snapped up in the 1st, more likely route is that the 2nd round is where the floodgates open. Easily 6-8 guys who are true first round grades. I want to like Lee more than Watkins on tape, but Watkins game more polished. Lee still too much of a backyard football player. Watkins carries the best grade I’ve given at the position since AJ Green. For reference, I have Green as the best WR prospect to come out since Calvin Johnson.

    -As poor a QB draft as any in the last half decade or so. Still need to do more work on a few of these guys, but all in all I’m not blown away by anyone.

    -Elite top level talent inside on the D-Line, then it falls off a cliff. Hageman and Nix should dominate right off the bat, both superior players to Sheldon Richardson coming out last year. Hageman looks like Albert Haynesworth sometimes- both good and bad.

    -Just a poor tail back group, put simply. A few SEC guys (what’s new) but no one who I would touch on day 1. Not even close.

    -Interesting group of corners. Bulk of the top tier guys are more in the traditional NFL mold, we’ll call it 5.01 or so, textbook movement skills and reactive athleticism. But also a handful of taller, longer Richard Sherman types. Interested to see how other teams approach that. The tape on a Jean-Baptiste says day 2 pick; his length could entice as early as the back of the 1st. Me? I’m not buying it. Very tough to succeed at the corner if you don’t move well…Sherman is fundamentally an exception, not the rule. Fans always struggle to separate exceptions (Brady in the 6th type deals) from the norms.
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    Justin Gilbert and Paul Richardson will burn up the 40....I'd bet anyone they both clear 4.4 easy.
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    Some burners out in Indy today. I'll say it again, this is a stud group outside.

    Cook with a 4.3 flat official, we had it timed at 4.31x
    Beckham with a 4.32 official, not sure what we had it at
    Ellington with a 4.31 official, we had it at 4.29
    Janis I think cleared 4.31
    Moncrief blew past 4.4 on our watches. Anyone who wants a pure H/W/S guy in the Al Davis mold, this is your player. Ridiculous hand size, Gronkowski sized paws.
    Richardson with an easy 4.36. He can run that all day long.
    Watkins burned it up, 4.37 on our watches. Don't know the official time but it's going to be sub 4.4 flat. He's a top 10 lock at this point unless people get cold feet about something.
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  18. #43
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    Why don't they go further than two decimal places? How accurate is the timing?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why don't they go further than two decimal places? How accurate is the timing?
    Excellent question. BLESTO produces the “official” numbers that end up on say the NFL website with the exception of a few teams that just do their own thing; different teams trust their own stop watches and tape measurers to differing degrees.
    It’s a bit funny to see in 2014, but for the most part we still time everything manually with a stop watch. So we run it 2 decimals, anything past that point is paralysis by analysis-something that can absolutely seize up a scouting report and lead to an enormous time/productivity suck. So the decision was made to lop off anything beyond that for clarity, when you start arguing over 1000ths of a second, you are no longer talking football. Numbers are a piece of the puzzle, but this isn’t baseball where we have extremely complex sabermetrics etc.

    Another thing i’d note about the 40. While important, personally I find the 10 yard split, and 3 cone to be FAR better indicators of football speed and reactive athletic ability. Some of the guys who burn up the 40 are clearly just track stars (I’m looking at you, Jeff Demps). Doesn’t mean they lack football movement skills, but there is a difference. I’ll take a guy who moves well over a stiff guy who can tear up a vertical any day of the week. It’s Percy Harvin vs. Mike Wallace, that type of deal. Good example: compare Cam Newton running to RG3 running. Griffin has a background in track and it shows, while he has dangerous long speed he runs very stiff and with a narrow base, opens him up to big shots. Newton has a natural athletic set that you can see easily on any scramble, he moves fluidly and keeps a wider base when he bends the edge. Allows him to stay lower to the ground, avoid huge shots, and run with more shake. Speed can mean many things, if that makes sense.
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    My god Clowney just ran back to back mid 4.4s with RIDICULOUS splits. Want to see the official numbers before posting the hand times, but whoa. Expected these types of results but still, startling to see a 265lb human move like he does in a straight line. If he were less stiff, the Julius Peppers comparisons would be pretty legitimate. Peppers easily the most naturally gifted athlete I have ever seen in my life.
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    I was going to post about Clowney. His strength apparently is up there with the other DL's but his speed to strength ratio (if you want to call it that) is ahead of everyone by a mile.

    He was the fastest DL by a bunch apparently.

    I really don't understand why the timing is done manually. That isn't as accurate as it could be in this day and age.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I was going to post about Clowney. His strength apparently is up there with the other DL's but his speed to strength ratio (if you want to call it that) is ahead of everyone by a mile.

    He was the fastest DL by a bunch apparently.

    I really don't understand why the timing is done manually. That isn't as accurate as it could be in this day and age.
    Institutional resistance. Scouting is very much so a totem pole type deal, so the folks at the top have been there for some time, quite literally they are just older. As such, the way we do things is very much so stuck in the 1980s. You wouldnít believe the degree to which some departments avoid email, texting, anything electronic. I agree itís a major issue, but youíre up against a seriously entrenched bureaucracy. I donít have anywhere near the clout to change that.

    Clowney was outstanding, for sure. I probably would have been more surprised if he wasnít outstanding, but seeing the numbers on paper is impressive regardless. Heís going to chase down so many run plays from the back side, wow. Well, if he cares enough, that is. Wait until Anthony Barr and Shazier get a chance to move around though. If anyone wants to know what an outstanding Football athlete looks like, watch Shazier. Undersized which is very concerning to me at that spot, but such an outstanding athlete. A lot of Lavonte David to his game.

    Some context on just how fast Clowney ran that- I would consider that time to be decent for a 6 foot WR weighing say 200 lbs. Not fast, but not slow to the point where I would really ding him for it. This is a near 270 pound man running at that speed- and heís high cut, which is not at all helpful for that drill. Heís a ďplanetĒ type athlete, to paraphrase Bill Parcells. As in, there are only a handful of people on the planet who wake up with the outright ability he has.
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    Here's a comparison run of Clowning, Kaepernick, and Newton:

    Click here to enlarge

    Here's Clowning against Manziel:

    Click here to enlarge

    I would not want to be a QB running away from this guy.
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    He can outrun Kaepernick and Newton? Damn...

    Well I'd draft him.

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    Barr is close to that type of athlete, more of a quick twitch guy probably not as fast in a straight line. When Clowney gets going, as you can see it's startling. Just wait until the pro day, it's going to be silly the numbers he puts up. He may just stand on his Indy numbers, they were outstanding.
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