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  1. #276
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    They gave up next years 1 and 4 to move up for him. Curious to hear your thoughts.
    My opinion is that is too much for anyone but especially a 6 foot 1 wideout. He isn't Calvin Johnson.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    My opinion is that is too much for anyone but especially a 6 foot 1 wideout. He isn't Calvin Johnson.
    Yea Sammy was a really tough evaluation for me, I struggled with that one.

    I think you are right, and almost every front office guy I've spoken to agrees. That's A LOT of capital in the football world to surrender for a player.

    I absolutely love his skill set, but as you noted he has a few height and bulk limitations that cannot be overcome. I have somewhere a list of all the sub 6"3 WRs drafted in the top 10 since 2000...their track record is absolutely abysmal. I mean just awful.
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    I'm just off the top of my head trying to think of effective receivers that are relatively short.

    Desean Jackson and Steve Smith are the only two I can think of.
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  4. #279
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    Well there are plenty of shorter guys who are very good players, and who are effective. But it becomes a positional limitation unless you posses some type of rare trait (Jackson's speed, Steve's competitiveness and on the ball skills).

    My question is not whether Watkins will end up as a good player, i'm almost certain he will. Runs too well, catches the ball too naturally. My question is whether he'll be able to dominate at the X...and there I have serious questions. His tape doesn't match the vertical leap we saw at Indy, and while 6'1 isn't short, it's not really plus height if you aren't jumping out of the gym.

    If you watch Clemson games, his route tree was basically verts and screens. I mean they must have ran him on a dozen screens a game. That mentality of "get our guy the ball", it falls apart at the pro level. So we'll see....

    Off the top of my head the under 6'3 crowd in the top 10. it's not a distinguished group.

    Heyward Bay (bust)
    Teddy Ginn (bust)
    Troy Williamson (bust)
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    Back again, this time with a run play. As you'll see this play has some quick reference notes - that's because it's in the installation portion of the call sheet. Rather than the purely conceptual portion, which is ground 0 for incoming players and staff. The run game is more straightforward at the pro level, which is why it’s generally easier to scout running backs. So much of the position is quantifiable on tape, though that’s not to say it lacks scheme specific requirements. A player who is outstanding for Gary Kubiak may be marginal for Bruce Arians.

    Alright onto todays’ call – “Ride 34”. I’d add a “counter-trey” to the title but I was taught a different set of verbiage so it’s an adjustment process for sure.

    Formation

    I highlighted this play because it shows deception, or about as much of it as you’ll see on Sundays. The vast majority of NFL run concepts stay true to how they were drawn up decades ago. Hat on a hat, get movement, runner has one or two lanes he can hit and that’s that. As the game gets pulled farther out along the perimeter, it starts to change what is required out of a running back group. If you simply cannot catch the football, you had better be a damn good natural runner or it will be tough to justify having you on the field.

    As you can see the alignment screams power run. We have our quarterback under center with a traditional fullback and setback in the backfield. Y TE makes the strong side, then we have the flanker and X out on the edges. 9 of our 11 players are inside the hashes – we want the defense to be thinking and playing one cut, downhill power run. This is a play that can be run anywhere on the field, it’s not field position or score dependent.

    Pre Snap

    Nothing too exotic, the deception is in the formation. We don’t need or want any shifts or motion on this play. Actually we want to get set as quickly as is possible. Defensive linemen are on hair triggers pre snap, for obvious reasons they want to get out of their blocks ASAP. So let’s get set with 25 seconds left on the play clock, and let them stew for a while. See if they jump at what looks to be a smashmouth run play.

    You’ll see the notation “Bob” assignment. That is, simply put, heads up man to man blocking. Again, we want to sell a straightforward, no nonsense power iso off the left guard. This is the B gap, which I’ve illustrated below

    LT LG C RG RT YTE
    C B A A B C D

    Post Snap

    Let’s start from the edge and work inwards. Both WRs we’ll have crack down on the safeties, so the goal here is to very quickly locate the safety and at the very least, present an obstacle for them. Since most WRs are $#@! blockers in both effort and technique, as much as anything our coaches ask them to basically create “trash” that has to be worked through. The assumption is that the corners will lack the interest and ability to be active on an inside power run.

    The left side of the line kicks down and fans outward. This suggests power run to the weak side, which is the central deception. The anticipated result is that both inside backers are over aggressive, and slide down to attack the weakside run. To further sell the play we’ll send the fullback into that B gap.
    The play does not run to that side, of course. The setback will take a counter step in the backfield – 2 bucket/slide steps to his left to feign the weakside run. He’ll then need to very quickly execute on the actual run, which is power right off the B gap on strong side. Goal here is to show initial patience, then explode towards the LOS. This is a quick hitter so the back cannot be indecisive, he has to get to the front side (play side) quickly or he’ll get run down from the back end. Deception only works for so long.

    From the center to the right tackle it’s hat on a hat man blocking. No kick steps, no fanning outwards. Just ball snapped, get into their pads, get movement downhill and let the runner take it from there.

    In an ideal world the linebackers have been washed down the LOS, the corners are out of the play, and the play side safety is being occupied by our flanker. Set back has a clear hole to hit, and then it’s off to the second level.
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  6. #281
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    Ok this is getting technical but I'm surprised the diagram actually looks like the Madden games.
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  7. #282
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok this is getting technical but I'm surprised the diagram actually looks like the Madden games.
    Lol I never thought about it like that...but yea for sure. Last Madden I really played was '04 but in fairness, the play sheets look more or less like the video game.

    There's really nothing too special about a playbook. IDK if you have read it but that little media invented fuss over "Does NE have the Jets playbook" was such a joke. The Jets 2010 playbook is ONLINE for anyone to see. Our 2004 playbook is online for anyone to see.

    Now the gameplan? That would be hugely valuable. But the actual plays? Meh. 90% of the really cool stuff from a conceptual standpoint starts at the highschool level, then works its way upwards. As scouts you have to work with what you are given. Which means we're seeing an entire generation of younger players coming up who have not once seen a quarterback take a snap from under center. It's crazy.
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  8. #283
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    Click here to enlarge

    Care to guess which hole he decided to take the run into? I'll give you a hint, it's not the one that is wide $#@!ing open.
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  9. #284
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
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    Care to guess which hole he decided to take the run into? I'll give you a hint, it's not the one that is wide $#@!ing open.
    There's a reason the browns let him go so cheap. :p
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    There's a reason the browns let him go so cheap. :p
    I have no problem saying I completely, utterly, swung and missed on Richardson. Was convinced he had every tool. It's tough to judge behind that dominant an offensive line, the holes he ran through were Grand Canyon sized. IDK what happened but he runs like a bull in a china shop in the NFL, no vision, no patience.

    I recall someone telling me that Lacy would be better and I laughed them out of the room. Oof.....
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    Lulz I got negged for a post back from February. Derp.

    Will post up an installation sometime today. What do you guys want to see? Run plays, pass plays, redzone stuff, defense? LMK i'm open to whatever.
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  12. #287
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  13. #288
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    "Josh Gordon's one of the worst people i've ever been associated with in my lifetime".

    Text I woke up to over the weekend from someone who worked Gordon out at Utah back in '12. What a supremely idiotic person. I think he's done in this league, there's no way he can keep himself out of trouble and in football shape for the full year-18 months it'll require before a suspension is lifted. Buyer beware.

    Talented kid, obviously. Long, linear athlete who can attack the football and get vertical on the perimeter. A classic X, think of a more competitive Malcolm Floyd or a slightly stiffer Vincent Jackson.
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  14. #289
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    "Josh Gordon's one of the worst people i've ever been associated with in my lifetime".

    Text I woke up to over the weekend from someone who worked Gordon out at Utah back in '12. What a supremely idiotic person. I think he's done in this league, there's no way he can keep himself out of trouble and in football shape for the full year-18 months it'll require before a suspension is lifted. Buyer beware.

    Talented kid, obviously. Long, linear athlete who can attack the football and get vertical on the perimeter. A classic X, think of a more competitive Malcolm Floyd or a slightly stiffer Vincent Jackson.
    Hopefully this suspension wakes him up, it more than likely won't.




  15. #290
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Legionofboom Click here to enlarge
    Hopefully this suspension wakes him up, it more than likely won't.
    I'm not close to this situation at all but from what little i've gathered, the answer is almost certainly "he wont'". Dude gets a DUI THE SAME WEEK as his suspension appeal? With rare exceptions (Brandon Marhshall comes to mind) these cats don't change their stripes.

    I doubt he plays another snap of football on Sundays. What a shame.
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  16. #291
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    Lulz I got negged for a post back from February. Derp.

    Will post up an installation sometime today. What do you guys want to see? Run plays, pass plays, redzone stuff, defense? LMK i'm open to whatever.
    Pass plays please!
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    Deal. Here's a more robust pass play in terms of the concept, and what is asked of the various players. Something like this wouldn't get installed until Training Camp, whereas some of the earlier plays are really just slight tweaks to some very fundamental stuff (can be installed far earlier).

    Click here to enlarge

    76 Firm BOA

    So there's a few things about this play that I want to point out. It's a zone buster on the strong side and a shot play cover-0 tester on the back side. So gives us flexibility to stay with the call in a ton of situations.

    Formation

    Classic 21 personnel, base set. QB under center, X on the weak side, Z/flanker on the strong side, Y TE sets the strong side.

    One thing I want to note here is the presence of the F. On paper this is a fullback. In an ideal world you have a dynamic weapon here ala Percy or Hernandez. The F is called the "joker" spot, again ideally it belongs to a player who can legitimately threaten a defense from any skill position. I cannot overstate how rare that type of player is. For obvious reasons the skillset required to win outside the hashes, then take a handoff inside, then set a pulling block....that's not easy and requires rare talent. So for 99% of the teams, this is going to be played by a fullback or a poor mans Hernandez (Chris Cooley in his prime comes to mind...Colt Lyerla could be the heir apparent if he gets his head on straight).

    Pre-Snap

    Hopefully we all remember the BOA designation from a previous play, so no need to rehash that.

    Let's start with the X, as he has the most on his plate. Since he's on the backside, he'll have a good sense pre-snap of whether it'll be man or zone. If it's a zone look he'll need to determine where the hole is, and will squat his route in that space. He can run an out, a hitch, or a slant. The diagram shows a zone look with the FS bailing out of a blitz type look pre-snap.

    If the X sees man, it's a fade or go to test what should be straight up man free. The backside corner is put in a tough spot here, there is no safety in football who can cover the amount of ground reqd. to make the play (assuming it plays out as the diagram shows). If the SS has unusual range we'll have the X stem his route wide to a fade, if the SS is occupied or slow it can just be a straight up go/vert.

    The line blocks heads up in a man set. Absolutely no deception in that regard, hat on a hat. We'll have out tackles bucket step wide to set outside leverage - this play can get blown up if one of the 'ends gets his mits on the ball or in a passing lane. So critical we keep a clean field of vision on the edges of the pocket.

    The set back will slide in place of the F/Joker and protect against an inside rush move. This allows our RT to slide out wide with confidence - he'll have help inside. IF the back sees all is well, he can peel out on a simple flag route.

    The Y TE runs a basic curl, again focusing on the BOA technique. His route should have him squatting between the two inside backers.

    The flanked runs a 6-7 yard curl, in reality it mirrors the hitch that the X can run on the far side of the field. The goal here is to pull coverage inside and flood the strong side of the field. If it's man, it'll be extremely difficult for defenders to work through all that traffic. If it's zone, we have the Y squatting on that curl or any number of backside throws.

    Post-Snap

    3 step drop for the QB, this is about as west coast as it gets. Goal is for the ball to come out quickly and on time, the primary target is the F/Joker. Notice "alert" in the diagram, that notifies the F that he needs to whip his head around ASAP once he releases into his route.

    Ideally we've overloaded the strong side, and have a caravan of blockers. With a dynamic athlete at the F, they should have the space they need to attack the second level. In some ways this is a modification of the jet sweep - end goal is very similar. But this play has more outs built into it, there aren't many scenarios that leave us in "oh $#@!" mode.
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  18. #293
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    "Josh Gordon's one of the worst people i've ever been associated with in my lifetime".

    Text I woke up to over the weekend from someone who worked Gordon out at Utah back in '12. What a supremely idiotic person. I think he's done in this league, there's no way he can keep himself out of trouble and in football shape for the full year-18 months it'll require before a suspension is lifted. Buyer beware.

    Talented kid, obviously. Long, linear athlete who can attack the football and get vertical on the perimeter. A classic X, think of a more competitive Malcolm Floyd or a slightly stiffer Vincent Jackson.
    Apparently he has some major mental problems. I'm not going to shed any tears for him but watching a 23 year old throw his life away is a bit sad.
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  19. #294
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    Where ya been hiding?!?!? @Sticky

  20. #295
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    Where ya been hiding?!?!? @Sticky
    What do you mean? Just been a little busy.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Apparently he has some major mental problems. I'm not going to shed any tears for him but watching a 23 year old throw his life away is a bit sad.
    Meh, I have a really hard time being overly sympathetic to these kids. Their opportunity is SO obvious and tangible, it's not some far off abstract "if you work hard in X years you'll be living comfortably" like 99% of us have to deal with. They have a very tangible opportunity every day to play at the highest level and be compensated accordingly.

    So when they repeatedly show 0 interest in working towards that, I say good riddance. It's unfortunate he's throwing his life away, but he has no one but himself to blame ya know? I can't even imagine how much stress that must cause the front office guys though, at the end of the day it's not my money that's going towards employing these guys.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What do you mean? Just been a little busy.
    Just busting chops man ! Thought youd like my m5 race vid Click here to enlarge

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    Manziel working hard to prepare for the season.

    Blowin rails of yeyo.



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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Thought you guys would enjoy some cutups to supplement the plays and concepts we're discussing. It's all well and good to see a diagram, but actual tape of the play in action is far more illustrative.

    Remember the cover 2 beaters we discussed earlier? The key concept there was to put stress on one (or both) safeties - force them to vacate their assigned space or at the very least cause a second's hesitation.

    Click here to enlarge

    Here's how the play should be defended. The FS makes a flat footed read, by that I mean post-snap he is on his heels and is patient. There's no need to rush and drive down on something in a 2 cover shell. We can see that here, Mitchell is going through his keys and has yet to drive on a route. If the safety starts to drive on underneath routes in a 2 cover, he will be beaten deep on a double move. You can take that to the bank.

    The boundary corner continues to play outside leverage, goal is to keep everything inside and tight to the LOS to greatest extent possible. He's guarding against out breaking routes and comebacks.

    The inside WLB should drop and undercut any type of in breaking or crossing route, including the dig being run here. A "win" for the defense is a dump off to the RB in the flat. You don't/shouldn't lose games giving up those types of plays, we'll take that all day.

    Good stuff.
    Last edited by 135pats; 07-09-2014 at 04:48 PM.
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    Talked to a buddy of mine this morning who knows the know Re: Aaron Dobson. Wanted to see if he'd be ready for camp when it opens in a week and change, response I got was "No chance, he just got out of the boot".

    As a Pats fan that sucks. He's a HUGE part of what they want and need to do this year. If he misses the first 2 weeks of camp, that sets his career back. Not just this season. Cannot overstate how critical it is to be on the practice field for young players.

    @Torgus I figured this would be of interest to you. I trust the source 100%. It'll be Thompkins manning the X when camp opens.
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