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  1. #1
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    Question Catless pipes and DP Fix--now terrible MPG?

    Hi everyone, first post here, new to this car. Yes I did a search, I haven't been under a forum rock for the last decade.

    I have an 08 335xi sedan. JB4, DCI, 3" VRSF pipes and the VRSF DP fix. I've been running the car with the stock pipes since November with the JB4 and I average 18.5mpg around town on pump gas on tune #1 . Sometimes I play around with e85 and tune 5, but then I've only seen MPGs dip to 17.9 or so.

    2 weeks ago I had the 3" VRSF pipes installed and I installed the DP fix a few days later when the CEL came on (surprised me it took that long). It's currently set at "5 o'clock" and the code was cleared using the JB4. The CEL hasn't come back and I do NOT have it set to auto clear, so I 'think' it's set right.

    Now, my MPGs are around 14 or 14.5 if I baby it. I honestly expected an MPG increase with the new pipes, or at least things to stay the same. This large change has me surprised. I'm curious if I maybe need to use a different tune on the JB4 or if I perhaps need to turn 'up' or 'down' the DP fix? Maybe the DP fix makes it run really rich? I did a search but couldn't really find much, it's hard to search short words on the forums as I'm sure we all have experienced.

    Thanks all! Great site (and I can even get to it at work)

    -Pro

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    It could be alot of things...
    The summer heat kick'n in
    E85 kills your mpg
    Your driving habits
    You might be do for a intake valve clean
    try using some fuel injector cleaning product

    so basically give your car a tune up make sure your running the latest jb4 firmware. ..
    are your run any type of flash with your jb4
    Click here to enlarge

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    Have your driving habits changed? You say this happened after adding cat less dps, maybe your on the throttle more than before. I get terrible gas mileage on my xi but im also fbo on e85 tune. I get 13 Mpg city driving and like 18 Mpg on the highway.
    Titanium Silver E92 09 BMW 335i xdrive 6AT
    KW V3 coilovers, AMS FMIC, AR Catless DP, Walbro 455 LPFP, BMS DCI, Alpina B3 Trans Flash, Vargas HPFP and Rail
    Protuned via Cobb by JR TUNED @ PandL Motorsports
    75%E85/25%93 blend 430awhp/470lbs tq on AWD Dynojet
    Dyno Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE6Ed...ature=youtu.be

    Click here to enlarge

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    Another thing is that if you keep the dp fix on the car it will eventually skew your afrs. You should only have it in when you do emissions.
    Titanium Silver E92 09 BMW 335i xdrive 6AT
    KW V3 coilovers, AMS FMIC, AR Catless DP, Walbro 455 LPFP, BMS DCI, Alpina B3 Trans Flash, Vargas HPFP and Rail
    Protuned via Cobb by JR TUNED @ PandL Motorsports
    75%E85/25%93 blend 430awhp/470lbs tq on AWD Dynojet
    Dyno Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE6Ed...ature=youtu.be

    Click here to enlarge

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    I get over 20mpg if I want to with mods in sig. Something doesn't seem right...
    BSM 2008 135i N54
    -VRSF 7" IC -VRSF DP's -n55 mids -BERK race -ER CP -TIAL BOV -BMS DCI -JB4 G5 ISO -ST coils -STOPTECH slotted rotors & pads -SLeK lip

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    I average 29 fbo. However without a backend flash.

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    The ethanol would do it...

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    No change in habits. I have run it a bit but I've spent two tanks now driving like 'normal' and still the issue. Only e85 was the first tank. And I've run a can of seafoam through it. I also have the OCC installed and there's never any oil really in it and my intake was cleaned when I first got the car (walnut blast at the BMW dealer). I haven't checked the firmware, but that's been the same since the jb4 was new in November so I haven't changed that anyway.

    I'm now curious about what you said DQE92 about only having it on for emissions. I noticed my tail pipes have a lot more soot on them as well (running rich I'm sure, more fuel used). I read up on the fix a bit and if I turn it all the way to the 1 o'clock position it turns it off. Maybe I'll do that and turn on autoclear and see if the MPG gets better.

    Can anyone confirm it's only supposed to be on for emissions? I installed it per the Burger Tuning install sheet which has it hard installed in the JB4 harness now. I don't want to take it in/out all the time if I don't have to as those little pins are pretty flimsy. The sheet didn't say anything about only for emissions, but that makes sense. I'll turn it down to 'off' this afternoon and see if things clear up and report back.

    Thanks guys!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Proflyer Click here to enlarge
    No change in habits. I have run it a bit but I've spent two tanks now driving like 'normal' and still the issue. Only e85 was the first tank. And I've run a can of seafoam through it. I also have the OCC installed and there's never any oil really in it and my intake was cleaned when I first got the car (walnut blast at the BMW dealer). I haven't checked the firmware, but that's been the same since the jb4 was new in November so I haven't changed that anyway.

    I'm now curious about what you said DQE92 about only having it on for emissions. I noticed my tail pipes have a lot more soot on them as well (running rich I'm sure, more fuel used). I read up on the fix a bit and if I turn it all the way to the 1 o'clock position it turns it off. Maybe I'll do that and turn on autoclear and see if the MPG gets better.

    Can anyone confirm it's only supposed to be on for emissions? I installed it per the Burger Tuning install sheet which has it hard installed in the JB4 harness now. I don't want to take it in/out all the time if I don't have to as those little pins are pretty flimsy. The sheet didn't say anything about only for emissions, but that makes sense. I'll turn it down to 'off' this afternoon and see if things clear up and report back.

    Thanks guys!
    In regards to the dp fix when you keep it on your afrs on bank 1 and bank 2 will start to differ as your ecu will try to adapt. So your actual afrs will differ from your target afrs. Just remove it until and turn autoclear on the jb4 so no cel will show. Use the dp fix when going for emissions testing. Hope this helps.
    Titanium Silver E92 09 BMW 335i xdrive 6AT
    KW V3 coilovers, AMS FMIC, AR Catless DP, Walbro 455 LPFP, BMS DCI, Alpina B3 Trans Flash, Vargas HPFP and Rail
    Protuned via Cobb by JR TUNED @ PandL Motorsports
    75%E85/25%93 blend 430awhp/470lbs tq on AWD Dynojet
    Dyno Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE6Ed...ature=youtu.be

    Click here to enlarge

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DQE92 Click here to enlarge
    In regards to the dp fix when you keep it on your afrs on bank 1 and bank 2 will start to differ as your ecu will try to adapt. So your actual afrs will differ from your target afrs. Just remove it until and turn autoclear on the jb4 so no cel will show. Use the dp fix when going for emissions testing. Hope this helps.
    Awesome, thanks man! Someone rep this guy, apparently I'm not in the cool kids club yet.

  11. #11
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    Btw what map are you running on your JB4? More power = poor gas mileage. If I run a pump gas map I get better gas mileage vs ethanol map. But again since your AFRs are skewed this could cause your car to run richer, only making the mpg worse.
    Titanium Silver E92 09 BMW 335i xdrive 6AT
    KW V3 coilovers, AMS FMIC, AR Catless DP, Walbro 455 LPFP, BMS DCI, Alpina B3 Trans Flash, Vargas HPFP and Rail
    Protuned via Cobb by JR TUNED @ PandL Motorsports
    75%E85/25%93 blend 430awhp/470lbs tq on AWD Dynojet
    Dyno Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE6Ed...ature=youtu.be

    Click here to enlarge

  12. #12
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    Def don't Daily Drive with the DP Fix in place. Use it for its only purpose 1-2 days out of the year than pull it out.
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
    Current - 16 Jeep Wrangler - Few Mods
    Looking for a n54 project e90/e82

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DQE92 Click here to enlarge
    Btw what map are you running on your JB4? More power = poor gas mileage. If I run a pump gas map I get better gas mileage vs ethanol map. But again since your AFRs are skewed this could cause your car to run richer, only making the mpg worse.
    map 1 or map 5 if I'm running e85. I've only done that a few times. Maybe I'm getting old but I don't race around town like I did when I was younger, I just like the throttle response and knowing I can put the hammer down. I do want to take it to the strip with a few guys at my firm with a Porsche Turbo and a 458 Ferrari sometime this fall. Anyway, that's the reason for the question as I just cruise to and from work and the gym mostly and a big drop in MPGs had me more worried about the car than the cost of fuel really. Running super rich for too long would smoke my plugs.

  14. #14
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    Seafoam? Using that crap on your car is bad news. NEVER use Seafoam on ANY BMW. Ever. I wouldn't use the stuff on my lawnmower.

    edit @Proflyer if you're worried about running rich and fouling your plugs then stay far away from Seafoam. One little drop of that crap will foul plugs, o2, basically any fuel/ignition system component. It's like dropping TNT into your gas tank and going for a drive.

    Sigh. Please never again!
    Last edited by Wescuddles; 08-01-2014 at 12:00 PM.
    BSM 2008 135i N54
    -VRSF 7" IC -VRSF DP's -n55 mids -BERK race -ER CP -TIAL BOV -BMS DCI -JB4 G5 ISO -ST coils -STOPTECH slotted rotors & pads -SLeK lip

  15. #15
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wescuddles Click here to enlarge
    Seafoam? Using that crap on your car is bad news. NEVER use Seafoam on ANY BMW. Ever. I wouldn't use the stuff on my lawnmower.

    edit @Proflyer if you're worried about running rich and fouling your plugs then stay far away from Seafoam. One little drop of that crap will foul plugs, o2, basically any fuel/ignition system component. It's like dropping TNT into your gas tank and going for a drive.

    Sigh. Please never again!
    Wow, I've used it for years on all sorts of things and have never had an issue. I ran the seafoam a while ago, the only point there was it's had a few things done to have it running really well, and was running really well. It's still running great, just bad MPGs. I've never heard of it causing issues (I only ran half a can) and it didn't cause any issues so I don't think that's it.

    I'm certainly in the camp of thinking the DP fix is causing this...

    Does anyone know if I need to totally REMOVE the dp fix? Or can I just turn it off and set the JB4 to autoclear? I did find that turning it to the 1 o'clock position shuts the resistor down totally so it's just a pass through now. It's not really tough to R/R but I'd obviously rather not have to once a year. Is Terry @BMS on the forum ever? I can't get on n54tech from my office Click here to enlarge

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    Yeah, removing it is best.

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    Ok thanks, I'll do that tonight and update the thread

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    One of the first things I do when my mileage goes to hell is reset a/f learning/etc via the BT tool. I will say that every now and then my fuel mileage will just drop lower and lower. My E50 map was netting me 15 mpg averages then when I reset about 6 million different things I was close to 20 (got 26 on one boring trip into work, once).

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    It's definitely the DPFIX causing your fuel efficiency woes. Be sure to clear your adaptations (dash menu option 1/7 on the JB4) after you pull it out as well. Or, for a more elegant solution, clear specific adaptations using a BT Tool (or INPA) as suggested above.

    Were you running 100% E85 without a DME flash to support it?? (You said, "only E85 in the first tank," in one of your posts.) Generally speaking, it's recommended to run a non-stock DME flash for concentrations of E85 greater than ~30%. In addition to taking advantage of the higher AKI (anti-knock index) of ethanol to run more timing advance, a DME flash will also ensure your fueling targets account for the lower energy density of ethanol. Oh, flashes typically (and can be easily customized to do so if not) are coded to ignore the primary catalytic converter CEL--no need for JB4 autoclear (which blanket clears codes, btw) or a DPFIX!

    To expand a bit upon the information DQE92 provided, the way the DPFIX works is by intercepting the O2 signal from one O2 sensor and using it to provide the DME with a 'clean' (manipulated) signal for both O2 sensors. Because there are variances in sensitivities and output in the O2 sensors, variances in injector performance, and about a thousand other variables, the feedback from the bank you're tapping for the DPFIX is causing the other bank to run quite rich.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EvanL Click here to enlarge
    It's definitely the DPFIX causing your fuel efficiency woes. Be sure to clear your adaptations (dash menu option 1/7 on the JB4) after you pull it out as well. Or, for a more elegant solution, clear specific adaptations using a BT Tool (or INPA) as suggested above.

    Were you running 100% E85 without a DME flash to support it?? (You said, "only E85 in the first tank," in one of your posts.) Generally speaking, it's recommended to run a non-stock DME flash for concentrations of E85 greater than ~30%. In addition to taking advantage of the higher AKI (anti-knock index) of ethanol to run more timing advance, a DME flash will also ensure your fueling targets account for the lower energy density of ethanol. Oh, flashes typically (and can be easily customized to do so if not) are coded to ignore the primary catalytic converter CEL--no need for JB4 autoclear (which blanket clears codes, btw) or a DPFIX!

    To expand a bit upon the information DQE92 provided, the way the DPFIX works is by intercepting the O2 signal from one O2 sensor and using it to provide the DME with a 'clean' (manipulated) signal for both O2 sensors. Because there are variances in sensitivities and output in the O2 sensors, variances in injector performance, and about a thousand other variables, the feedback from the bank you're tapping for the DPFIX is causing the other bank to run quite rich.
    Now there's a reply to sticky! I don't have the BT tool. I did buy a BT cable thing online and was going to try some coding sometime (fold mirros, unlock door etc.) but haven't gotten around to learning enough about the process to jump in yet.

    No I wasn't running 100% e85. Most I ever did was 50% (or less, but close) and map 5 in the JB4 at the suggestion of someone at Burger when I first got the car and called in to order a slew of parts. I've run 2 maybe 3 e85 mix tanks total, it's just a pain really since the only e85 is across town and I just happened to be in the area when I had a half tank of fuel.

    I'll pull the DP fix and clear what I can using the JB4. With the flash you're talking about would it still pass emissions? That's the only reason for the DP fix anyway as I have to have it yearly here in CO to get my plates renewed.

    I'd like to learn more about the DME flash idea you're talking about. Is that something I can do via the cable I bought and some software? I'm assuming it's more involved than just that...

    Thanks again everyone!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Proflyer Click here to enlarge
    Now there's a reply to sticky!
    ?

    I'm confused so I hope this helps your MPG:

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Proflyer Click here to enlarge
    Now there's a reply to sticky! I don't have the BT tool. I did buy a BT cable thing online and was going to try some coding sometime (fold mirros, unlock door etc.) but haven't gotten around to learning enough about the process to jump in yet.

    I'll pull the DP fix and clear what I can using the JB4. With the flash you're talking about would it still pass emissions? That's the only reason for the DP fix anyway as I have to have it yearly here in CO to get my plates renewed.

    Thanks again everyone!
    Glad we could help. This really is a great community here. Click here to enlarge

    BT Tool = BT cable, so you're good to go with flashing the DME using BBFlash (in the downloads section) and clearing adaptations using Bavarian Technic's application. Just remember to put your JB4 in map 0 first!

    For emissions, it's somewhat of a PITA, but you'll have to flash back to stock and install the DPFIX a few days before your inspection. This way the readiness codes are set.

    Regarding coding (mirrors, etc.), unless you have the professional version of the BT cable which allows for mild coding through BavTech's application, you'll need the following:

    - INPA-compatible cable: http://www.one-stop-electronics.com/...&product_id=16 (I hope it's ok I linked there!)
    - A virtual machine with BMW Standard Tools installed (you can run it without a VM, but it can get pretty dirty).
    - A recent copy of the E89 (no, that's not a typo) DATEN files.

    Finally, for flashing the DME, you have the physical tools with the BT cable and a decent computer. All you need to download is the BBFlash application in the downloads section here and a decent map to start with. Because you're 2008, your car probably has I8AOS firmware on it, in which case I'd recommend looking up V8Bait's maps, also available in the downloads section. If you're IJEOS, check out BMS' flash maps.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EvanL Click here to enlarge
    Glad we could help. This really is a great community here.
    It's the breast community.

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    Sticky, that's a glorious thing you posted. xoxo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SCGT Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, that's a glorious thing you posted. xoxo
    I like to help.

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