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  1. #1
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    Is an E30 M3 DTM car a match for the new 2015 F80 M3 around the track?

    The E30 M3 released in 1985 was designed with DTM (Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters or German Touring Car) racing in mind. The S14 four-cylinder under the hood was designed for professional racing (as M3 engines traditionally have been) where it excelled. The S55 turbo 3.0 liter inline-6 in today's M3 is obviously a much more powerful motor. It is larger than the 2.0-2.5 liter S14 four-cylinder and also turbocharged whereas the S14 is naturally aspirated.

    Click here to enlarge

    The difference on paper is close to 100 horsepower but in practice it is closer to 200 horses as the new M3 is severely underrated. Horsepower is only one part of this story as the E30 M3 DTM car is much lighter and stripped out for the track. The weight difference is in the 1000 pound range based on a 3562 pound curb weight for the F80 M3.

    Can a chassis design that is over three decades old now compete with a brand new and much more powerful M3? Yes. Not only does the 1992 E30 M3 DTM car compete with the 2015 F80 M3, it beats it around the track. Keep in mind that back in the 80's and early 90's DTM cars actually represented their production counterparts.

    The E30 M3 does a 1:09.1 laptime around the Hockenheim to the F80 M3 1:13.1. A four second difference which is simply stunning. The new F80 M3 is a great car but it hardly makes the classic M's obsolete. Namely on the racetrack which the BMW Motorsport division used to design their M3's for.


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    Jeeze, the F80 looks like a big old stumbling pig on ice skates after watching the E30 take a lap. By no means apples to apples, but a fun comparison.

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    The E30 M3 is definitely lighter on its feet and looks like it is on rails in comparison. The M3 has become more about muscle than finesse.

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    1) the e30 sounds way better
    2) maybe it's just me but it seems like with each passing generation the m3 becomes less of race car turned down for the street and more of a street car turned up just enough to occasionally see the track.
    3) I'm just not into this new m3/4... Hopefully that changes

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    lol article worthy to prove a point, i see you slick Click here to enlarge but it is true the new Ms become less and less racecarish every generation. my big fat luxury pig is a perfect example of them kiiinddda going for the whole racecar deal but that's about it. of course this is about M3s but you get the point

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
    lol article worthy to prove a point, i see you slick
    Hey I didn't do the comparison. It is what it is.

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    Ofcourse it beat it around the track and looks much sharper its a former DTM race car cmon lets be real here can't compare a street car to any race car. A new age camaro race car will put the street m4 to shame but doesn't prove anything or take away from the camera being a heavy street car

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    Ofcourse it beat it around the track and looks much sharper its a former DTM race car cmon lets be real here can't compare a street car to any race car. A new age camaro race car will put the street m4 to shame but doesn't prove anything or take away from the camera being a heavy street car
    Of course you can. This is an E30 M3 DTM car. It's nothing like a modern DTM car. It uses the factory E30 M3 engine, factory chassis (not a custom tube chassis), and you can basically turn any E30 M3 into a 'DTM' race car.

    It's still a naturally aspirated four-cylinder and chassis designed 30+ years ago. No reason you can't compare it.

    A Camaro Z28 will put the M4 to shame too.

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    This is fun, and proves the classics can be just as fast when purpose built to do one thing. I own 4 cars all made before 1978, all German, all fast, and all fun. Which car do I prefer to drive 98% of the time except on fun summer weekends. My E90 N54, why? Well, because its fast, comfortable, AND fun. Not just fast and fun.

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    Motorsports are not about comfort.

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    Click here to enlarge




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Motorsports are not about comfort.
    Well gee wiz, the comparison was about taking a new comfy fast car, and comparing it to a old not comfy fast car. So right in theme with the comparison I did my own comparison of the same. Guess what, I also put in my own personal opinion of what I like to drive more often, as I have both. That you decided my comparison is not valid because you have officially defined motorsports for us. Well, we can only thank you for that, how many pre 1980 German sports cars do you own sticky, since you seem to know all about them.. Cheers

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Well gee wiz, the comparison was about taking a new comfy fast car, and comparing it to a old not comfy fast car. So right in theme with the comparison I did my own comparison of the same. Guess what, I also put in my own personal opinion of what I like to drive more often, as I have both. That you decided my comparison is not valid because you have officially defined motorsports for us. Well, we can only thank you for that, how many pre 1980 German sports cars do you own sticky, since you seem to know all about them.. Cheers
    M = Motorsports

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    M = Motorsports
    And yawn, take it away Sticky. We are all just pawns on your board anyway. Motorsports is what you say it is on this board. Have a nice day man, I do not want to argue with someone who just wants to tell everyone their opinions are meaningless, talk about taking all the fun out of posting on any given thread when you have to worry about the Mod coming in and telling you your opinion doesn't matter nor is it valid because M = Motorsports. Last time I checked motorsports were about fun, and going fast. But being in loud old vibrating beasts as a daily driver, that is not always fun. But I guess this thread is not about actual comparisons of older fast cars and newer fast cars, its only about whatever you want it to be. I got to get back to work. I am now honestly gun shy about posting about anything these days, even if its something fun and pointless, as Uncle Sticky will just come out to the backyard and tell us we are wrong and stop horseplaying. Weeeeeeeeee

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    And yawn, take it away Sticky. We are all just pawns on your board anyway. Motorsports is what you say it is on this board. Have a nice day man, I do not want to argue with someone who just wants to tell everyone their opinions are meaningless, talk about taking all the fun out of posting on any given thread when you have to worry about the Mod coming in and telling you your opinion doesn't matter nor is it valid because M = Motorsports. Last time I checked motorsports were about fun, and going fast. But being in loud old vibrating beasts as a daily driver, that is not always fun. But I guess this thread is not about actual comparisons of older fast cars and newer fast cars, its only about whatever you want it to be. I got to get back to work. I am now honestly gun shy about posting about anything these days, even if its something fun and pointless, as Uncle Sticky will just come out to the backyard and tell us we are wrong and stop horseplaying. Weeeeeeeeee
    Click here to enlarge
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    Cool story bro. I remember when I used to search the internet for pictures to get a point across...Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    And yawn, take it away Sticky. We are all just pawns on your board anyway. Motorsports is what you say it is on this board. Have a nice day man, I do not want to argue with someone who just wants to tell everyone their opinions are meaningless, talk about taking all the fun out of posting on any given thread when you have to worry about the Mod coming in and telling you your opinion doesn't matter nor is it valid because M = Motorsports. Last time I checked motorsports were about fun, and going fast. But being in loud old vibrating beasts as a daily driver, that is not always fun. But I guess this thread is not about actual comparisons of older fast cars and newer fast cars, its only about whatever you want it to be. I got to get back to work. I am now honestly gun shy about posting about anything these days, even if its something fun and pointless, as Uncle Sticky will just come out to the backyard and tell us we are wrong and stop horseplaying. Weeeeeeeeee
    wimp

    this comparison isn't about daily driving. he never said your opinion is meaningless. M does stand for Motorsport. you $#@! a lot you know that?
    '08 535xi - fbo

  18. #18
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    I guess you haven't been here long enough. We are all pawns to "Uncle Sticky" and Vargas has some great points.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rooringhusky Click here to enlarge
    We are all pawns to "Uncle Sticky" and Vargas has some great points.
    the problem is you guys will say something, he will argue, then big debate commences and you guys eventually give up or just take it personal. or both. what the hell..
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rooringhusky Click here to enlarge
    I guess you haven't been here long enough. We are all pawns to "Uncle Sticky" and Vargas has some great points.
    Yup.
    E92 Bren Tune / E90 PTF Tune / E91 Stockish and slow AF

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
    the problem is you guys will say something, he will argue, then big debate commences and you guys eventually give up or just take it personal. or both. what the hell..
    Don't give up, or take it personal, its a little annoying. Trying to comment on a cool pointless thread, told your opinion is stupid for any number of reasons, comment on a technical thread, your opinion (or facts for that matter) are also stupid if they do not line up. I love this forum, but lately man its been hard to have a good discussion without it turning into garbage. I honestly miss the days of it being fun to discuss stuff here, not sure if its possible to get back there, but it would be nice.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Don't give up, or take it personal, its a little annoying. Trying to comment on a cool pointless thread, told your opinion is stupid for any number of reasons, comment on a technical thread, your opinion (or facts for that matter) are also stupid if they do not line up. I love this forum, but lately man its been hard to have a good discussion without it turning into garbage. I honestly miss the days of it being fun to discuss stuff here, not sure if its possible to get back there, but it would be nice.
    It seems like every discussion turns to garbage now a days. I can't tell you how many full responses I have written to just delete and not post because it's just useless arguing with Sticky and seriously not worth my time. I have better things to do than get into endless arguments which always seem to end with S65 is the best engine ever, you are poor if you can't build it and that is your problem.

    Time for the neg rep machine to kick in.
    E92 Bren Tune / E90 PTF Tune / E91 Stockish and slow AF

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Don't give up, or take it personal, its a little annoying. Trying to comment on a cool pointless thread, told your opinion is stupid for any number of reasons, comment on a technical thread, your opinion (or facts for that matter) are also stupid if they do not line up. I love this forum, but lately man its been hard to have a good discussion without it turning into garbage. I honestly miss the days of it being fun to discuss stuff here, not sure if its possible to get back there, but it would be nice.
    I don't think there's any conspiracy here. If your comment is stupid and people keep saying it's stupid... Well then it's probably stupid. Please keep whining there's a lot more "cry baby" pictures on google I can post Click here to enlarge
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    All I got to say is thank Fukc BMW didn't make a E92 M3 CSL. We would never hear the end of it.

  25. #25
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The new F80 M3 is a great car but it hardly makes the classic M's obsolete
    This is a totally ridiculous statement.
    You are seriously comparing a gutted race-purpose through and through welded chassis with a roll cage, race diff, uniball race suspension, race gearbox, a functional aero wing and race spec built engine on race tires against a 4-door fully equipped M3 on street tires?
    And saying in the same alinea BMW has lost it's pedigree?
    Sorry man, you lost me there.
    I think the F80 is awesome for staying within 4 seconds of this race car.

    If you want to compare, find a video of this DTM racecar against a standard E30 M3.
    You will be hugely disappointed with the street version, I can tell you that.

    And then there is the price.
    The DTM M3 cost DM 300.000,- at the time.
    Spend that much on an F80 to make it track worthy, including the cost of buying it, and you will drive circles around this DTM E30.
    There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works

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