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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    The dyno shows otherwise no? All I see is power increasing as the revs increase.

    I understand the N54 may never be a very high reving engine but there should be room to increase it past 7200rpm. Even increasing it to 8 or 8.5k, from looking at the dyno, would be a substantial increase in power.

    To go on, why install VAC springs that can hit 10k rpm(claimed by vac) when there is zero valve float with the stock springs at this power level and rpm range?
    8.5k would be a nice +18% on 7200rpm. However, the head does not flow enough for the stroke and it will choke before 8k. The power can increase until the flow exceeds sonic speeds when the power drops abruptly.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Jake has probably spent more time tuning that car than 90% of other the N54 protuners combined have spent tuning N54s and he has the rev limiter where it is for a reason.
    Even if the rev limiter would be removed, the engine would not rev much higher. But yes, also the piston speeds get high so that rev limiter should be set reasonable also for the longevity reason.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    he said built head - build head definitely flows more than enough, has been proven.



    of course it can - there's nothing magical about the N54 that precludes it from being modified to rev higher than 7000rpm and still make power.

    fully built motor especially, when EVERYTHING is lightened+strengthened, there's nothing keeping it at 7000-7200 unless there's a software limitation present.
    Did I just accidentally miss a 9000RPM N54 Click here to enlarge Show me the link please Click here to enlarge

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    8.5k would be a nice +18% on 7200rpm. However, the head does not flow enough for the stroke and it will choke before 8k. The power can increase until the flow exceeds sonic speeds when the power drops abruptly.


    care to show your working out of how the head doesn't flow enough AFTER porting+valve job? The only before and after dyno we actually have of head modifications alone show the ported head should make power quite well with a raised redline.

    piston speeds are not too fast at any case

    8350rpm on stock stroke, stock rods, is 25m/s (little below 5000 feet per minute). so again, 8000 should be a nice reasonable rev limit to aim for i believe.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Did I just accidentally miss a 9000RPM N54 Click here to enlarge Show me the link please Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    you're the only one saying 9000rpm.

    Please show me the link where this discussion is even about 9000rpm Click here to enlarge

    FYI, even 7500 is >7200.. all anyone realistically wants to see is the N54 making power at 8000rpm (as far as i've ever seen in these sorts of discussions)
    Last edited by Flinchy; 07-24-2014 at 05:42 PM.
    boop

  5. #30
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    Seriously with fueling figured out by vargas and PTF the Rev range is all that is holding this platform back. Anyone please correct me if I am wrong.
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Seriously with fueling figured out by vargas and PTF the Rev range is all that is holding this platform back. Anyone please correct me if I am wrong.
    You're wrong.
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You're wrong.
    Please elaborate. With low displacement rev range is needed to spool larger turbos. Seems pretty simple to me...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Please elaborate. With low displacement rev range is needed to spool larger turbos. Seems pretty simple to me...
    Yes but it is not just revs. What about the cams? What about the head? Valvetrain? Then what about the crank? Then what about the rods? Then this, then that, etc.
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yes but it is not just revs. What about the cams? What about the head? Valvetrain? Then what about the crank? Then what about the rods? Then this, then that, etc.


    Right...so like I said the rev range is now what is holding the N54 back, that is the problem. Unless someone uses a helper shot or wants a stupidly small power range with tons of lag.

    The solution is how do you increase the rev range safely, that will take a combination of things most likely like som eof the componenets you said. We know VAC says their springs & head are good for 10k rpms in a racing environment. So all that is left is the bottom end and possibly cams imo. We know the stock springs broke at 8200RPMs on a ST car via Shiv, but no other issues(apparently) increasing the RPMs by 1k over stock. While I am sure cams will help nothing shows the stock cams being a problem so far at 7200rpm. According to VAC you really can't increase the lift much at all so cams are not going to have the huge benefit they may on other platforms where you want more MM of lift, obviously playing with duration will help. My guess is the crank/rods will be a limitation above 8200rpm. Look at any ST dyno and look at what just an 8200rpm red line would do for the power/rev range of the cars. Once there is a proven solution to the problem it should very very interesting to see where the N54 platform goes!
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  10. #35
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    You stated rev range. There are a lot of associated parts. Not to mention let's say you do all the associated parts then what about the block? What about the piston speed? What is the RPM?

    Let's see a single turbo pushed with all the fuel it needs at the stock rev range before trying to jump ahead.
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You stated rev range. There are a lot of associated parts. Not to mention let's say you do all the associated parts then what about the block? What about the piston speed? What is the RPM?

    Let's see a single turbo pushed with all the fuel it needs at the stock rev range before trying to jump ahead.
    Oh I agree lets see what they can do with the 7200rpm limit with full E85 on an aggressive tune. It will probably be enough for most people I would think. I'm just stating increasing the rev range means larger turbos and more HP and that 7200 is limiting the power output.

    I think we all know the N54 will never be a 'high' reving engine because of it's design. It's never going to hit 10k rpms imo. But 8200-9k I think is a possibility.
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Oh I agree lets see what they can do with the 7200rpm limit with full E85 on an aggressive tune. It will probably be enough for most people I would think. I'm just stating increasing the rev range means larger turbos and more HP and that 7200 is limiting the power output.

    I think we all know the N54 will never be a 'high' reving engine because of it's design. It's never going to hit 10k rpms imo. But 8200-9k I think is a possibility.
    Let's assume a BIG(1Kwhp worth of airflow) turbo spools around 5Krpms, 2Krpms is plenty of power band IMHO. VAC and ABR already have built bottom end packages available so once the stock parts start $#@!ting the bed it's a simple(if not cheap) matter of calling them and placing an order.


    There will be 1Kwhp N54s by next spring.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    There will be 1Kwhp N54s by next spring.
    I won't hold my breath.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I won't hold my breath.
    The hard parts have been taken care of. Fueling is no longer an issue and there is tuning to support it. It will take a built engine to get there but it will get there.
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  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    The hard parts have been taken care of. Fueling is no longer an issue and there is tuning to support it. It will take a built engine to get there but it will get there.
    It will get there. Just not by next spring.
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