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  1. #1
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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    E92 M3 - Metallic clunk on cold start (With videos + waveform image)

    Heya bimmerboost community.

    I am having an issue with my E92 M3 (2007.07 production, 6MT). By the looks of it, its a fairly common issue that many say is 'normal'. I do not think it is. I have written about it extensively on m3post, and after pooring some $$ on the problem, have yet to find a solution. So I thought I would come here as I am sure there are quite a few on here that understand the S65 motor quite well, so here goes:

    I am experiencing a multi-knock during cold starts. It lasts about 0.5 seconds, happens about 1 second after ignition takes place (so about 1.5-2 seconds after pressing start). The noise is quite fast so at first it sounds like a single noise, but I have recorded and examined the sound visually, and there is actually a sequence of knocks in succession (image attached below for reference).

    Theres quite a bit of info as I have been trying to methodically deal with the issue as best I can.

    Description of the issue:

    a) The noise only happens on cold starts after the vehicle has sat for about 6 or more hours.

    b) The noise only happens the first time the vehicle is started. In the following sense: START -> KNOCK -> OFF RIGHT AWAY (few seconds) -> START AGAIN -> NO NOISE....

    c) Previous engine run cycle has an effect on it. In the following sense: If I cold start it now, get the knock, turn the vehicle off without actually driving anywhere (keeping the motor from heating up at all in essence), wait another 8 or so hours, start it again, the knock will be much quieter.

    Here is what I have done to attempt to resolve the issue:

    1) Changed the check valves. Those that know this motor know there are 4 of them, one on each side of each head. They have been replaced. Cheap parts, expensive labor.

    2) Tried adding oil.

    3) Literally 2 hours ago, I changed the vanos tensioners. This MAY solve my issue, I'm kind of jumping the gun here by writing before waiting for the motor to cool to see if it has helped. We'll see in about 4 or so hours if this has helped. Will report my findings after as to perhaps aid the community in dealing with this in the future.

    4) At the same time as 3, I had them remove the starter, clean things up, and re-grease the starter solenoid. Once again, I JUST picked up the car so I am unsure if this has helped. We'll see in about 4 or so hours. The mehcanic said the starter is in great shape but did have a 'little bit' of build up. It has been cleaned.

    5) I have installed a tune by bpmtune and had cold start deleted. So this is not related to the secondary air pump. Noise was / is present before and after the tune was installed.

    6) I have removed my intake manifold and placed my head near the motor while my GF started the engine. The noise was there, very clearly, but due to the number (not necessarily volume) of noises coming up as the motor started... I could not determine where it was coming from. If I were to guess, and cant say this 100%, I would say somewhere from the drivers side valve cover.

    Here are the videos / images that give quite a clear representation of what the issue is.

    As always, any help is greatly appreciated.

    PS: I know a noisy vanos is normal as oil fills back up. I am talking about the very obvious CLACK-CLACK. Some videos show it being better, one of them quite bad (longer, multiple clack-clack-clack...).

    Not so bad:

    vimeo.com/97717663

    Worst:

    vimeo.com/97717665

    Real Bad (someone on another form suggested pumping the break prior to starting, the actual noise takes place around 0:49):

    vimeo.com/97849126

    With intake manifold off:

    vimeo.com/99052912

    Here is a wave form of the noise (from the really bad one):

    i.imgur.com/mahosEY.jpg

    Sorry for the lack of embeded images / videos. Just made the account today, forum not letting me embed images / videos for 1 day Click here to enlarge Will edit this post to make the videos embeded as soon as I am granted permission to post links in posts.
    Last edited by anom3; 07-02-2014 at 08:43 AM.

  2. #2
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    You can post links now.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  3. #3
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    replacing the chain tensioners, cleaning and greasing the starter and replacing the check valves has not solved the issue. all 3 of the listed were done.

    anyone?

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    This sounds like a nightmare and eventually a mad gf for dropping thousands on a ghost issue.
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
    Current - 16 Jeep Wrangler - Few Mods
    Looking for a n54 project e90/e82

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    You can try listening through a long screwdriver method. Basically mimics a stethoscope, place the head around where you think the noise is coming from, and try to isolate it (on metal parts). I used that method to locate a pumped lifter on my mustang a few years ago.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    i have already bought 2 mechanics stethoscopes.

    the next thing i will do is try and locate exactly where its coming from, that being said:

    a) i get once chance to hear it every day... maybe 2 if i drive real early in the morning. once it knocks once, that's it, have to wait 6-8 hours.

    b) to be near the motor, i need to have someone else start the car Click here to enlarge means any close up listening has to not only be co-ordinated with making sure its been long enough to have the knock happen, but also having my gf home to start the car while i am under the hood Click here to enlarge

    *sigh*

    $#@!ing brutal Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  7. #7
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    btw, im not the only one experiencing this. have spoken to quite a few folks on m3post.com who have the same issue, no one has a clear answer as to a fix.

    one person said his shop repaired 2 cars by changing the check valves.
    one person said they fixed it by adding a bit of oil.
    one person said his dealership (he was under warranty) fixed it by replacing both gears on vanos cyl. 1-4.
    one person said his dealership tried to fix it by doing all of the above, and them some (changing crankshaft, etc etc) and he ended up getting a new motor.
    and last but not least, many others have the noise, but choose to ignore it.

    just as an example, here is a youtube video from 2010, years before i owned mine, same issue ( this is NOT my car, but the noise is identical ) :


  8. #8
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by anom3 Click here to enlarge
    btw, im not the only one experiencing this. have spoken to quite a few folks on m3post.com who have the same issue, no one has a clear answer as to a fix.

    one person said his shop repaired 2 cars by changing the check valves.
    one person said they fixed it by adding a bit of oil.
    one person said his dealership (he was under warranty) fixed it by replacing both gears on vanos cyl. 1-4.
    one person said his dealership tried to fix it by doing all of the above, and them some (changing crankshaft, etc etc) and he ended up getting a new motor.
    and last but not least, many others have the noise, but choose to ignore it.

    just as an example, here is a youtube video from 2010, years before i owned mine, same issue ( this is NOT my car, but the noise is identical ) :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvqsN7j0sYA
    Maybe I'm missing something but that sounds like a normal startup?
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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  9. #9
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    the grind at 0:04 is normal?

    in this video



    its at 0:02... whoever recorded this put the camera a bit further away so its not as loud as my video (the vimeo one).

  10. #10
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    I heard it in that other video. I don't know what is causing that.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I had the same issue since I purchased mine . Changed to mobil1 0-40 and never heard it again. Give that a try before you take the whole motor apart.

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    the universe works in strange ways Click here to enlarge

    last night, before reading this, i started thinking... maybe 10w60's honey like when cold consistency is part of the issue... 1.5 hours from now going to pick up 9L of 0W40.

    will post my results. thanks!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by godmachine Click here to enlarge
    I had the same issue since I purchased mine . Changed to mobil1 0-40 and never heard it again. Give that a try before you take the whole motor apart.

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    Issues like this is what stops me from getting an s65. Great fun engine, but so many issues with many of them, especially if you want to keep them long term (bearings come to mind).
    John 3:16


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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    *sigh* still love the car, would love to iron out this and couple other issues. the clunky flywheel / clutch comes to mind, but that can probably be improved by first of all replacing my clutch (who knows how the previous owners treated it.... probably not too well tho since its an "EMMMM THREE") and also 'upgrading' my flywheel to the newer design bmw pushed out in 2009 (i think it was).

    that being said, got me a sump full of 0w40 about an hour ago. car runs pretty much the same, temp's 100c (fairly hot day here, 29c). motor sounds the same. perhaps a bit quieter on the bottom end.

    gotta wait at least 10 or so hours to fire it up to see how the cold start clunk goes. then another 12 hours (bed time tho...) to fire it up again to see if its really gone (if it doesnt do it in 10 hours).

    will post my results tomorrow morning.

  15. #15
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
    Issues like this is what stops me from getting an s65. Great fun engine, but so many issues with many of them, especially if you want to keep them long term (bearings come to mind).
    LOL
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    So, I switched to 0w40 about 24 hours ago.

    Since doing so, I have had 2 cold starts (9.5 hours sitting and 11 hours sitting), neither one of them had a clunk like before. I have had a non-clunky cold start before, but never do I remember having 2 in a row (I am not the original owner of the car, the cold start clunk has always been there since I have been in possession of the car).

    Still early to tell, but as of right now, 0w40 seams to be the fix.

    THANKS GODMACHINE!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by godmachine Click here to enlarge
    I had the same issue since I purchased mine . Changed to mobil1 0-40 and never heard it again. Give that a try before you take the whole motor apart.

  17. #17
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    Thanks for the follow up.

    But if changing the oil to 0W40 this sounds like a bit of going overboard Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by anom3 Click here to enlarge
    one person said his dealership tried to fix it by doing all of the above, and them some (changing crankshaft, etc etc) and he ended up getting a new motor.
    There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works

  18. #18
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    LOL
    I'm just scared bro. Heard too much bad news.
    John 3:16


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
    I'm just scared bro. Heard too much bad news.
    I heard N54's have fuel pump issues.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by anom3 Click here to enlarge
    So, I switched to 0w40 about 24 hours ago.

    Since doing so, I have had 2 cold starts (9.5 hours sitting and 11 hours sitting), neither one of them had a clunk like before. I have had a non-clunky cold start before, but never do I remember having 2 in a row (I am not the original owner of the car, the cold start clunk has always been there since I have been in possession of the car).

    Still early to tell, but as of right now, 0w40 seams to be the fix.

    THANKS GODMACHINE!
    No problem . hope its stays healthy for you

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    spoke to quick... started it up this morning after it sat for 16 hours, noise was there.

    quicker and quieter, but still there.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I heard N54's have fuel pump issues.
    And other stuff nasty stuff. That's why I got rid of 2 n54s.
    John 3:16


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by anom3 Click here to enlarge
    spoke to quick... started it up this morning after it sat for 16 hours, noise was there.

    quicker and quieter, but still there.
    Parking on a incline by chance ? After I said mine never did it again it did it yesterday but I was parked on a hill.

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    nope, nice flat part of town where it sits over night.

    i will say this for sure tho, the 0w40 has made a difference.

    the noise is def still there, but its quicker (according to the audio samples i inspected, about 50% quicker, 0.3secs vs 0.5 before) and not AS horrible sounding.

    so i can say without a doubt, the noise is caused by something within the oil system.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by godmachine Click here to enlarge
    Parking on a incline by chance ? After I said mine never did it again it did it yesterday but I was parked on a hill.

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