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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Interesting. Priced well at $69.99.
    Last night it was $90, then I saw the wedge performance dropped from $140 to $75 and now Vsrf is $69,lol.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    Last night it was $90, then I saw the wedge performance dropped from $140 to $75 and now Vsrf is $69,lol.
    Competition is a beautiful thing. They just killed his profit margin.
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    18 degrees of advance? Furrulz?
    Yeah it was set to push 18 at like 140 load and drop after that, but due to something the car was requesting low boost targets (temp maybe, knock maybe) but jb4 was targeting normal boost (17psi or so on a map3 with a large additive), meaning the lower timing/higher load cells were not being utilized. The jb4 has failsafes for lots of things but not everything, especially when not using map5 which would have lowered boost. Guy should have been logging, but to each their own. Haven't heard any updates from him in a while.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    Last night it was $90, then I saw the wedge performance dropped from $140 to $75 and now Vsrf is $69,lol.
    Tiago also said if you order it with downpipes you get a discount.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by richpike Click here to enlarge
    Another option:

    http://www.vr-speed.com/vrsf-catless...-bmw-335i.html

    Great price! I love VRSF stuff.

    -Rich
    VRSF takes quality USA developed products like AMS intercoolers, Custom Performance Engineering Chargepipes, etc, ships them to China to be outright copied with cheap materials and labor, and then sells their fakes for 30% less than the original. I'd consider running their stuff pretty embarrassing but to each their own. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    VRSF takes quality USA developed products like AMS intercoolers, Custom Performance Engineering Chargepipes, etc, ships them to China to be outright copied with cheap materials and labor, and then sells their fakes for 30% less than the original. I'd consider running their stuff pretty embarrassing but to each their own. Click here to enlarge
    Almost every large company does this, its like saying you won't wear a Calvin Klein suit because it's a copy of a Brioni and is made in China. Silly




  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Legionofboom Click here to enlarge
    Almost every large company does this, its like saying you won't wear a Calvin Klein suit because it's a copy of a Brioni and is made in China. Silly
    Counterfeiting and rebranding products is good business. I'm not suggesting otherwise. Just pointing out the obvious with VSRF. I'd be embarrassed to use their stuff personally due to the reputation they have amongst other vendors. Seeing their new products roll out continually reminds me why they've earned that reputation. Maybe you'd be embarrassed to wear a Calvin Klein suit. I know my wife would be embarrassed to carry a Michael Kors bag. lol.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 07-03-2014 at 05:29 PM.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Counterfeiting and rebranding products is good business. I'm not suggesting otherwise. Just pointing out the obvious with VSRF. I'd be embarrassed to use their stuff personally due to the reputation they have amongst other vendors. Seeing their new products roll out continually reminds me why they've earned that reputation. Maybe you'd be embarrassed to wear a Calvin Klein suit. I know my wife would be embarrassed to carry a Michael Kors bag. lol.
    Personally I think having overseas competition is great for the end user, it gives everyone options. It also keeps prices somewhat in check. Yes premium products will always cost a premium, but without some kind of competition they can charge anything and the end users do not have choices.

    I have a set of VRSF downpipes that I installed myself and they fit great and haven't had any issues, but on my next car I won't be using VRSF stuff. Not because I don't like the products, but because I like other products BETTER which I think the price difference is acceptable. Hope this makes sense.

    Either way, keep making kick ass stuff Terry.




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JC335xi Click here to enlarge
    Tiago also said if you order it with downpipes you get a discount.
    Good to know but I think we have had enough VRSF promotion in this thread. Too much promotion of non-vendors in general.

    We want to reward the companies here.
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    VRSF takes quality USA developed products like AMS intercoolers, Custom Performance Engineering Chargepipes, etc, ships them to China to be outright copied with cheap materials and labor, and then sells their fakes for 30% less than the original. I'd consider running their stuff pretty embarrassing but to each their own. Click here to enlarge
    Isn't that the same argument Shiv used to use on you? Click here to enlarge

    -Rich

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by richpike Click here to enlarge
    Isn't that the same argument Shiv used to use on you? Click here to enlarge

    -Rich
    Yes. But he was wrong and disingenuous. BMS didn't take a Haltech box, ship it to China, make a replica with cheaper components, and then rebrand those. We made a completely different & unique tuning system whose only similarity to his system was the results that it produced. He'd go on and on about how we copied his product then go on and on about how the hardware and logic we were using were completely inferior to his stuff.

    This is what has me going with VSRF. Look at their "new" chargepipe:
    Click here to enlarge

    And check out the CPE CP that came out 5 years ago:
    Click here to enlarge

    How about their "new" intercooler:
    Click here to enlarge

    And compare to AMS' intercooler that came out probably 5 years ago:
    Click here to enlarge

    These are just two small examples. I've heard a lot of interesting stuff about them from other parts manufacturers. As far as I'm concerned shame on VSRF and shame on anyone who buys their parts.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Part of business. Either do some sort of IP protection, or expect someone to come in and reverse engineer it and sell it for less. I don't even own any VRSF stuff (yet), but they get rave reviews, clearly have good quality and provide excellent pricing and support. I'm sure there are a few things you sell that you got the idea and layout for from someone else. And I'm not hating on that - again, part of business.

    BTW - I'm not a BMS hater either. You've done some amazing things for the BMW platform and I love watching your progress. Just the other day I was giving you kudos for continuing to advance the N54 platform while others have jumped ship. But I don't think bad mouthing VRSF is fair - they are providing excellent service/products to the N54 community.
    @Sticky - have you talked with VRSF about being a vendor here? I'd prefer to let them defend themselves.

    -Rich

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by richpike Click here to enlarge
    @Sticky - have you talked with VRSF about being a vendor here? I'd prefer to let them defend themselves.
    I'm pretty sure Tiago is the guy? VRSF browses so I mean it's up to them. I'm not going to chase them.
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    The consumer should be cautious when buying a copied off brand part. Usually the material is inferior and key design elements are slightly off (like o2 placement on DP's, degrees of corners on IC ends, etc). A lot of people just focus on price. I personally would buy the quality parts and do it right, but that's just me...
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by richpike Click here to enlarge
    Part of business. Either do some sort of IP protection, or expect someone to come in and reverse engineer it and sell it for less. I don't even own any VRSF stuff (yet), but they get rave reviews, clearly have good quality and provide excellent pricing and support. I'm sure there are a few things you sell that you got the idea and layout for from someone else. And I'm not hating on that - again, part of business.
    -Rich
    No I get it... Lock your car door or expect someone to break in and steal your stereo. I'm just pointing out their obvious reputation for copying parts within the industry. It's disappointing the community supports the behavior but it's not like I can stop it or care enough to try. But if a fellow enthusiast is going to buy parts from a company like that expect people like myself to say shame on you every now and again. Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 07-04-2014 at 09:45 PM.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Terry, you personally documented the fact that you sent a set of Macht Schnell's downpipes to Taiwan, failed to fit them correctly and then modified them to better the fitment. You then sold them as BMS branded downpipes. You documented this, not one of your employees, not one of your customers. You did it. On your own forum. On the internet. I saved that thread if you'd like me to post it.


    If you think we copied the AMS intercooler you clearly haven't compared the two in person or on paper. Our first FMIC (released 2.5 years ago) was a 7" with OEM connectors welded onto the end tanks designed to reuse the OEM piping. The AMS is a 6" FMIC with 2.5" connectors welded onto the end tanks that use completely different couplers than both our first version and the current one. EVERY DIMENSION of both the core and the end tank is different. The coupler position, lengths and angles are even different. Are you going to claim HPF copied AMS or the other way around as well? Both their end tanks are eerily similar. Did Mishimoto copy ours, HPF's or AMS' intercooler and put OEM connectors on it? The end tanks are identical according to your logic and they produced their intercooler after we everyone else did.

    AMS: 20" x 6" x 6"
    VRSF: 20" x 5.75" x 7.125"


    I'm not one to get into these kinds of altercations on a public forum, personally I believe it to be petty and unprofessional. There are a lot of people on this forum that will believe the belligerent lies you're spouting and I refuse to let you drag our name through the mud undefended. I've never uttered a bad word about your company in word or on writing nor have I ever put down you or your products. I've never insulted you nor have I EVER given you reason to trash talk us at all.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF Click here to enlarge
    Terry, you personally documented the fact that you sent a set of Macht Schnell's downpipes to Taiwan, failed to fit them correctly and then modified them to better the fitment. You then sold them as BMS branded downpipes. You documented this, not one of your employees, not one of your customers. You did it. On your own forum. On the internet. I saved that thread if you'd like me to post it.


    If you think we copied the AMS intercooler you clearly haven't compared the two in person or on paper. Our first FMIC (released 2.5 years ago) was a 7" with OEM connectors welded onto the end tanks designed to reuse the OEM piping. The AMS is a 6" FMIC with 2.5" connectors welded onto the end tanks that use completely different couplers than both our first version and the current one. EVERY DIMENSION of both the core and the end tank is different. The coupler position, lengths and angles are even different. Are you going to claim HPF copied AMS or the other way around as well? Both their end tanks are eerily similar. Did Mishimoto copy ours, HPF's or AMS' intercooler and put OEM connectors on it? The end tanks are identical according to your logic and they produced their intercooler after we everyone else did.

    AMS: 20" x 6" x 6"
    VRSF: 20" x 5.75" x 7.125"


    I'm not one to get into these kinds of altercations on a public forum, personally I believe it to be petty and unprofessional. There are a lot of people on this forum that will believe the belligerent lies you're spouting and I refuse to let you drag our name through the mud undefended. I've never uttered a bad word about your company in word or on writing nor have I ever put down you or your products. I've never insulted you nor have I EVER given you reason to trash talk us at all.
    I hear becoming a vendor on this site is pretty cheap compared to the other site. Should give it a shot and defend yourself more often.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    I hear becoming a vendor on this site is pretty cheap compared to the other site. Should give it a shot and defend yourself more often.
    Totally agree. In addition, this is (IMHO) a much better site than the others. You are free to speak your mind (as both you and Terry have done), the discussions are far more technical and interesting, with much better information and significantly less of the "should I buy a 328 or 335?" or "what are common issues with the 335?" or "My dad said I can get a 335 as my first car - what do you guys think?".

    Come on over to the good guys! @Tiago@VRSF

    -Rich

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF Click here to enlarge
    Terry, you personally documented the fact that you sent a set of Macht Schnell's downpipes to Taiwan, failed to fit them correctly and then modified them to better the fitment. You then sold them as BMS branded downpipes. You documented this, not one of your employees, not one of your customers. You did it. On your own forum. On the internet. I saved that thread if you'd like me to post it.
    That is completely untrue. We've NEVER sent any products to China. JIM Racing in Tawain approached us with a downpipe design to resell. They told us they were providing the downpipes to other USA suppliers but did not mention who. We tried a set, found some issues, and sent them back to JIM with revisions based on our testing. Once the revisions were made we resold some.

    In your case I think the photos of "your" products speak for yourself. That you feel the need to come in here and "defend" yourself speaks volumes.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Legionofboom Click here to enlarge
    Almost every large company does this, its like saying you won't wear a Calvin Klein suit because it's a copy of a Brioni and is made in China. Silly
    Yet I still wear Brioni, Canali, and Zegna suits over Calvin Klein....

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    I agree with Terry 100%

    It's embarrassing to have these knockoff parts on your car.

    The fact is VSRF isn't a race shop, they don't race cars, they don't build anything in-house and they don't have a phone number or address on their website which is fishy on it's own.

    Why install race parts on your car from a company like that?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by triggz Click here to enlarge
    I agree with Terry 100%

    It's embarrassing to have these knockoff parts on your car.

    The fact is VSRF isn't a race shop, they don't race cars, they don't build anything in-house and they don't have a phone number or address on their website which is fishy on it's own.

    Why install race parts on your car from a company like that?
    There are always going to be people who want cheap parts and don't care about quality as much as they care about price.

    Sounds like you and I are more about quality, but to each their own.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    There are always going to be people who want cheap parts and don't care about quality as much as they care about price.

    Sounds like you and I are more about quality, but to each their own.
    I agree and I don't have a problem with what he does or the clientele that buys his products.

    What I do have a problem with is the fact that he is a liar.

    Don't say you have an R&D engineer and make it seem like you have a car that you make developments on. It's misleading the community to think that you design these products in-house when in reality they are replicas of other products with minor adjustments so that they aren't 1:1.

    Be straight with people "Hi, I have a manufacturer in Asia who is willing to make products for us similar to what's available now for a fraction of the cost".

    Saying you have engineers and R&D to make yourself seem like a legit race shop is bs.

    Race parts should come from race shops who race cars. Not from some guy who wants to make money off people by selling low-quality parts for a fraction of the cost.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    I hear becoming a vendor on this site is pretty cheap compared to the other site. Should give it a shot and defend yourself more often.
    I hear it's time to raise some rates.. Click here to enlarge

    It is cheaper. But as volume is filling out across the network (someone had a good idea) we'll eventually raise rates. For now, dollar per view is the best in the business here and people know it.
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    That is completely untrue. We've NEVER sent any products to China. JIM Racing in Tawain approached us with a downpipe design to resell. They told us they were providing the downpipes to other USA suppliers but did not mention who. We tried a set, found some issues, and sent them back to JIM with revisions based on our testing. Once the revisions were made we resold some.

    In your case I think the photos of "your" products speak for yourself. That you feel the need to come in here and "defend" yourself speaks volumes.
    To be perfectly fair Terry you would defend yourself as well.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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