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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    What's going to be your excuse when there is an F82 M4 CSL/GT3 track version and it decimates the previous special edition e46 and e92 models? What will all of the fanboys have to complain about then?
    I'm not making any excuses. I'm not in control of laptimes that Sport Auto achieves or the cars BMW produces.

    I provided the laptimes from each so fanboys wouldn't complain and you are upset for some reason. That is your own issue.

    As I said previously the M4 wouldn't beat the M3 GTS on the roadcourse and it doesn't. So yes, the M4 CSL will need to be produced for that to happen stock for stock.
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    Click here to enlarge

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Was it the exact same weather conditions?

    Does it matter anyway? The GTS with less power beats it. That means it's making up the distance in the turns not the straights.

    I didn't say I wasn't impressed. I said I put in context and it's only fair in that case to mention ALL THE TIMES and not just pick and choose the times that M4 fanboys like, right?

    The fastest BMW around the ring has an S65 and was produced before the M4. Sorry about reality.
    Haha a track focused s65 that's how much it takes. Lol you really are so stuck and focused on S65's you can't even see a great achievement.
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Haha a track focused s65 that's how much it takes. Lol you really are so stuck and focused on S65's you can't even see a great achievement.
    You're so stuck against it you can't see how great it is that a next gen car with even more power can't beat it. It also won't be winning any ALMS championships.

    The S65 is track focused, you're right.

    You're also forgetting it's behind two generations of M3's, not one. It goes to show how amazingly great the E46 M3 CSL and E92 M3 GTS times from YEARS ago were.
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    Same driver, same day, same conditions, same tires... The M3/4 will beat the E9x M3 and E46 M3 around any track by a substantial amount of time... With or without CCB.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by B00stGeek Click here to enlarge
    Same driver, same day, same conditions, same tires... The M3/4 will beat the E9x M3 and E46 M3 around any track by a substantial amount of time... With or without CCB.
    Depends what track and what E9X M3 and E46 M3. Also how many laps...
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You're so stuck against it you can't see how great it is that a next gen car with even more power can't beat it. It also won't be winning any ALMS championships.

    The S65 is track focused, you're right.

    You're also forgetting it's behind two generations of M3's, not one. It goes to show how amazingly great the E46 M3 CSL and E92 M3 GTS times from YEARS ago were.
    More power is half the story. And last time I checked, the gts went on sale in 2011, sooooooo a far long ago 3 years. Break that number down a wee bit more. 3 years after the e 92 went on sale. All these numbers show, really, is how great the csl was.
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  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Depends what track and what E9X M3 and E46 M3. Also how many laps...
    Again with this limp mode crap. Is Bimmerworld having issues with their n20 and limp mode in their endurance races? Might want to look into that.
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Depends what track and what E9X M3 and E46 M3. Also how many laps...
    We can talk no options cars from US dealers. No gts, no csl. The M3/M4 will out handle those cars and with that massive torque, it will pull out of corners so much faster. Longer the track, the bigger the gap.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    More power is half the story. And last time I checked, the gts went on sale in 2011, sooooooo a far long ago 3 years. Break that number down a wee bit more. 3 years after the e 92 went on sale. All these numbers show, really, is how great the csl was.
    The GTS went on sale in 2011 but the E9X chassis went on sale when?

    Yeah, the CSL is awesome. So is the GTS. The two best track cars BMW M ever produced...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by B00stGeek Click here to enlarge
    We can talk no options cars from US dealers. No gts, no csl. The M3/M4 will out handle those cars and with that massive torque, it will pull out of corners so much faster. Longer the track, the bigger the gap.
    If you use a track to favor a power advantage then you aren't winning with how the car handles, transitions, or brakes but with its motor.

    I think that highlights something in the changing philosophy here.

    Either way, the laptime is what it is.
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Again with this limp mode crap. Is Bimmerworld having issues with their n20 and limp mode in their endurance races? Might want to look into that.
    Have those cars been stripped out a wee bit and given upgraded cooling?

    Might want to look into a street car discussion.
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  13. #38
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No

    Exactly

    Click here to enlarge

    Yeah, the CSL is awesome. So is the GTS. The two best track cars BMW M ever produced...[/QUOTE]

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    At the end of the day Loaded's Modded E46 M3 Csl destroys all... ESS Charged around 550hp, AP brakes, KW coils ran 7:22 a long time ago in 2007 with Cold Weather and Traffic...... They are all impressive regardless which Gen and continue to show M3s have always been amazing cars and will continue to be....

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mpowerct Click here to enlarge
    At the end of the day Loaded's Modded E46 M3 Csl destroys all... ESS Charged around 550hp, AP brakes, KW coils ran 7:22 a long time ago in 2007 with Cold Weather and Traffic...... They are all impressive regardless which Gen and continue to show M3s have always been amazing cars and will continue to be....
    People forget the overall record is held by an E46... with a blower.

    Good post.
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  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mpowerct Click here to enlarge
    At the end of the day Loaded's Modded E46 M3 Csl destroys all... ESS Charged around 550hp, AP brakes, KW coils ran 7:22 a long time ago in 2007 with Cold Weather and Traffic...... They are all impressive regardless which Gen and continue to show M3s have always been amazing cars and will continue to be....
    This is very impressive... the GTS is impressive, the e46 CSL is impressive, and the m4 is impressive when you compare it to other cars like the 997 when you doing it in a 4 for sedan that can easily provide enjoyment (assuming the time is similar), safety, and space for a family. I am the farthest thing from a fan boy as I fn love all cars. But the new m4 is impressing me. Sorry if that bothers anyone...

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...w-m3-gts-drive

    the gts isnt exactly a fair head to head comparison for me to base my opinions on so I will wait to see if they come out with a similar m4 offering, which to my disliking I bet will be a long shot but when that does come out I will compare that car to the hand-built 2x more expensive, stroked, lightened, track dedicated m3 gts.
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    CCB doesn't help stop the car faster (repeatability/lack of fade, sure.), tires do... the E46 and E92's that ran faster times had MUCH stickier rubber which means better braking, earlier acceleration, higher lateral g's

    it's not rocket science

    throw a set of R888's or something on an M4 and i'll put money down on it lapping faster than the E92 GTS. no other mods.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    People forget the overall record is held by an E46... with a blower.

    Good post.
    is that actually the outright street registered BMW lap record on the ring?

    not a bad time at all.
    boop

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    is that actually the outright street registered BMW lap record on the ring?

    not a bad time at all.
    I believe so I don't know of any other that is quicker.
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    The GTS was laughable compared to the CSL. It was 4 seconds faster with...
    adjustable suspension (GTS) vs fixed (CSL)
    multi piston calipers (GTS) vs traditional BMW crap (CSL)
    adjustable aero and external wings (GTS) vs tweaked body panels (CSL)
    stroked engine (GTS) vs intake/cames (CSL)
    2 seats (GTS) vs 4 (CSL)
    Gutted/caged interior (GTS) vs not (CSL)
    more modern tires (GTS) vs older (CSL)

    Nothing about it was impressive or favorable to the image of e9x chassis imo.

    As for the time posted for the F8X, it's both impressive an exactly where I'd expect it to be. Put some non street tires on it, and it'll be faster than the GTS or CSL, much less the base models.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Obioban Click here to enlarge
    The GTS was laughable compared to the CSL. It was 4 seconds faster with...
    adjustable suspension (GTS) vs fixed (CSL)
    multi piston calipers (GTS) vs traditional BMW crap (CSL)
    adjustable aero and external wings (GTS) vs tweaked body panels (CSL)
    stroked engine (GTS) vs intake/cames (CSL)
    2 seats (GTS) vs 4 (CSL)
    Gutted/caged interior (GTS) vs not (CSL)
    more modern tires (GTS) vs older (CSL)

    Nothing about it was impressive or favorable to the image of e9x chassis imo.

    As for the time posted for the F8X, it's both impressive an exactly where I'd expect it to be. Put some non street tires on it, and it'll be faster than the GTS or CSL, much less the base models.
    You must be lost.

    The GTS is quicker than the CSL, it is what it is. It's more capable and with the adjustments can be set to excel on many different track layouts.

    People act like a car is geared or the suspension is set or the aero is set for every track. It is not.

    You also are acting as if these times are set in stone. They will vary based on the conditions, tires, driver, etc., especially on a track as long as the 'Ring.

    You basing the CSL as soooo superior on a single laptime on a single track is laughable. But it's because you hump the E46. As someone who actually has had both, the E92 is the more capable track car. Not to say that the E46 isn't great because it is.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    CCB doesn't help stop the car faster (repeatability/lack of fade, sure.), tires do
    That is what I used to think as well, but you are so very wrong there.
    Even track specific brake pads make a world of difference in stopping power/distance, with the same tire setup and rotor size.
    Having CCB is like a whole new world of stopping power.
    If it wasn't so ridiculously expensive (+€10K) it would be a no-brainer upgrade.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You must be lost.

    The GTS is quicker than the CSL, it is what it is. It's more capable and with the adjustments can be set to excel on many different track layouts.

    People act like a car is geared or the suspension is set or the aero is set for every track. It is not.

    You also are acting as if these times are set in stone. They will vary based on the conditions, tires, driver, etc., especially on a track as long as the 'Ring.

    You basing the CSL as soooo superior on a single laptime on a single track is laughable. But it's because you hump the E46. As someone who actually has had both, the E92 is the more capable track car. Not to say that the E46 isn't great because it is.
    The GTS has adjustable aero that was undoubted dialed in for the ring when the set the time. The CSL does not.

    Yes, I am aware the GTS was faster than the CSL. My point was that it's sad how little faster it was, given how much more compromised as a car it was.

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Obioban Click here to enlarge
    The GTS has adjustable aero that was undoubted dialed in for the ring when the set the time. The CSL does not.

    Yes, I am aware the GTS was faster than the CSL. My point was that it's sad how little faster it was, given how much more compromised as a car it was.
    My point was times aren't set in stone and if you compared them at the same time you just might see a larger variance than you think. Not sure why you missed it.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DavidV Click here to enlarge
    That is what I used to think as well, but you are so very wrong there.
    Even track specific brake pads make a world of difference in stopping power/distance, with the same tire setup and rotor size.
    Having CCB is like a whole new world of stopping power.
    If it wasn't so ridiculously expensive (+€10K) it would be a no-brainer upgrade.
    the only way it can help is if modulation is the problem - if you can lock up the wheels you have enough braking FORCE

    however, if the difference between not locking up the wheels and locking up the wheels isn't smooth, then yeah, more progressive pads/calipers will obviously help, you're right.

    tires are still the defining factor in braking distance in the end... so if you're not using the best tires you can before dropping 10k+ on CCB's.. ok so it's not quite as bad as throwing that cash in the fire, but it's the next step behind it lol.
    boop

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