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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Exactly, but the 190E street car was still aimed at the E30 M3 street car. The 190E 2.5 was really the direct rival for the E30 M3, sport sedan, same type of car.
    No you are incorrect the 2.5 was aimed at the e28 M5.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It was never the best sports car under 100k, it was always the best sports sedan under 100k. You need to learn your history as it is getting embarrassing. So the E46 M3 was a better sports car than a 996? Or a C5 Z06?Those are sports cars, the M3 was always the best all around car, it has never been a dedicated sports car and never will be.You may be having trouble and are comparing it to the GT3 and C6 Vette because you don't even understand what it is.
    Yes I know the M3 is not a sports car. It has never been the best all around car either.


    Im not upset buddy.
    Click here to enlarge

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    No you are incorrect the 2.5 was aimed at the e28 M5.

    Yes I know the M3 is not a sports car. It has never been the best all around car either.
    If you want to know the E28 M5 competition well that was the 500E.
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    No you are incorrect the 2.5 was aimed at the e28 M5.
    No, it was not, you need to brush up on your history. The historical rivalry in racing and with the street cars was the 190E vs. the M3 and the S28 M5 vs. the 500E, period.

    Im not upset buddy. Keep wastin you moms money trying to make that m3 of your a sports car
    You sure you aren't mad? That is usually when people try to make Mom jokes. Wasting mom's money? LOL, ok. Trying to make it a sports car? LOL, I thought you just said the M3 was a sports car? Frank, let it go.
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    You just showed me two sedans. The m3 coupe has had no competition. Show me a comparable coupe. A COUPE BRAH!!!! A COUPE!!!

    The m3 is a niche market and is just a more sporty version of a 3 series. Not a sports car.
    The M3 coupe is technically a German sport sedan.

    Exactly, it isn't a sports car therefore you shouldn't say the competition is sports cars like the GT3 and C6. You just answered your own statement. Niche market? The sport sedan market is anything but a small niche, the 3 series is bread and butter.
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  5. #30
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    The m3 is a niche market and is just a more sporty version of a 3 series. Not a sports car. The only true comp has come from Audi with the RS5 and they both arent anything special. So basically the e92 M3 fails at being an M3 because it isn't special like previous m3's
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    The m3 is a niche market and is just a more sporty version of a 3 series. Not a sports car. The only true comp has come from Audi with the RS5 and they both arent anything special. So basically the e92 M3 fails at being an M3 because it isn't special like previous m3's
    So the E90 and E93 M3's don't count?

    And the E36 sedan doesn't count?

    I agree, the RS5 is not anything special and it is also late to the party. So you don't consider the C63 or IS-F to be M3 competition? Well I do.

    I would also agree that BMW diluted the M3 too much and made a mistake in not giving us a special version, something like a CSL or the GTS.
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No, it was not, you need to brush up on your history. The historical rivalry in racing and with the street cars was the 190E vs. the M3 and the S28 M5 vs. the 500E, period.
    Wrong again. The 500E was the direct competitor to the e34 M5
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  8. #33
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    You are the one that needs to let it go. The e92 m3 is nothing special and it is not a sportscar. Anyways I have to go.
    Click here to enlarge

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    Wrong again. The 500E was the direct competitor to the e34 M5
    Bud, it was compared to the E28 as well as the E34 because the 500E started production in 1990, lol.

    Regardless, hopefully now you understand that the W124 chassis the 500E was based on was the 5 competitor and the 190E was W201 which was the 3 competitor. If you need more schooling, let me know.
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Bud, it was compared to the E28 as well as the E34 because the 500E started production in 1990, lol.

    Regardless, hopefully now you understand that the W124 chassis the 500E was based on was the 5 competitor and the 190E was W201 which was the 3 competitor. If you need more schooling, let me know.
    I dont need anything from you. lol You are wrong.
    Click here to enlarge

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    I dont need anything from you. lol You are wrong.
    Quite right actually:

    BMW stunned Europe (and later, most of the rest of the driving world) with the E28-generation M5, a four-door sedan that behaved more like a sports car than a lot of sports cars ever did. The E34 M5 launched in Europe in the fall of 1988 and arrived in the States as a 1991 model. Bodies were produced in Dingolfing and subsequently shipped to the BMW Motorsport facility in a Munich suburb where they received their bespoke driveline and interior trim. Just 1,678 E34 M5s were built for North American consumption from December 1989 through March of 1993; fully 1,280 of those were 1991 models like the 70,000-mile example owned and operated by Dr. Michael Andre of Encinitas, California.

    It is unfair to paint the 500E strictly as Mercedes' answer to the M5: As far back as the 300 SEL 6.3 of the late '60s, Stuttgart had been wedging big-car engines into mid-sized bodies. Like the M5, the 500E was hand-built: Porsche lent its chassis expertise (perhaps also cribbing secrets for the stillborn four-door project of the late '80s in the process), and assembled them in Zuffenhausen. And, while the 500E's $85,000 price tag was a stiff hit, it cost half as much (and performed nearly as well) as AMG's vaunted Hammer, a car no longer available in the States when the 500E arrived. Though Mercedes shifted more than 10,000 specimens worldwide during its lifetime, just 1,505 of them arrived stateside from 1992-'94. Jeff Wong of Foothill Ranch, California, is the original owner of the immaculate black 34,000-mile specimen seen on our pages.
    Ok? So the E28 M5 caught Mercedes off guard and really they scrambled to come up with an answer so the 500E came out. By that time, the E34 M5 was already in development. Quite an interesting story, read up if you like: http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/..._feature7.html

    The 500E was the M5 competitor, the 190E was the E30 M3 competitor. The 500E had to be compared to he E28 and E34 as there was no real option from Mercedes before that, get it?
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  12. #37
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    I told you the 500E was a competitor to the e34 M5 and the e30 M3 *Sport Evolution* vs the 190E Evolution II.

    "The E30 M3 Sport Evolution was BMW's counterpunch to the Mercedes 190E 2.5-16 Evolution, a multi-wing creation which produced a rapid reaction from Munich. The M3 was built to an exacting set of specifications to comply with the FIA's Group A Touring Class regulations, which required an initial run of 500 road cars. Unlike the later E36 and E46 M3s, the original E30 M3's main purpose in life was to win races on the track, not the street. It got the job done."

    http://www.europeancarweb.com/tuned/...ion/index.html Interesting read*
    Last edited by 1cleanAMG; 11-08-2010 at 09:27 PM.

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    Uh, bud, your previous post does not make much sense considering you posted this:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    No you are incorrect the 2.5 was aimed at the e28 M5.
    No big deal, you were wrong. Oh, and nice try deleting it Click here to enlarge

    Like I said, the closest Mercedes competitor for the M5's was the 500E, not 190E.

    And yes, what this establishes is that BMW clearly has had rivals for its M cars from early on, not just 2 or 3 years ago. Game, set, match.
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  14. #39
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    I didnt try to delete anything wtf are you talking about. You are like a girl making $#@! up.

    No bud that was the e30 sedan and it was made for racing the Merc. What competitors did the e36 or the e46 had. Dont even joke about the rs4 being it for the e46. The M3 is a niche. There was no comp until recent years. No coupe comparable to the M3 coupe. The closest thing was the Porsche Carrera.
    Last edited by 1cleanAMG; 11-08-2010 at 10:29 PM.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    I didnt try to delete anything wtf are you talking about. You are like a girl making $#@! up.
    Bud, your deleted post saying the 190E 2.5 was aimed at the M5, I just undeleted it.

    What competitors did the E36 have? Well, how about the B5 S4 to start with?

    The E46 M3? How about the C32 AMG and then the C55 AMG?
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  16. #41
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    I deleted it because I wrote the wrong thing. It wasnt what I wanted to say. You cant bring back deleted post what the hell are you doing.

    You are naming sedans those are other cars.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    You cant bring back deleted post what the hell are you doing.
    Pretty sure I just did Click here to enlarge So why call me a liar? You tried to delete it, no big deal.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    You are naming sedans those are other cars.
    I don't understand what you mean here.
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  18. #43
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    You are missing the point there was no 2 door 4 seater coupe at the time comparable to an m3. The only car was the Carrera
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    You are missing the point there was no 2 door 4 seater coupe at the time comparable to an m3. The only car was the Carrera
    At which time are you referring to, which generation?

    Because the E36 and E9X are not just coupes, and the carrera really isn't a true 4 seater. There are several other 2 door 4 seat performance coupes though and have been throughout M3 production history.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    At which time are you referring to, which generation?

    Because the E36 and E9X are not just coupes, and the carrera really isn't a true 4 seater. There are several other 2 door 4 seat performance coupes though and have been throughout M3 production history.
    You are worst than a $#@! you keep making up excuses. Why is the Carrera not a four seater. There is no use talking to you. You twist $#@! to you convenience I swear its like arguing with a $#@!. What other coupe? there is NONE. No true competitors.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    You are worst than a $#@! you keep making up excuses. Why is the Carrera not a four seater. There is no use talking to you. You twist $#@! to you convenience I swear its like arguing with a $#@!. What other coupe? there is NONE. No true competitors.
    The Carrera is not a 4 seater because it is a 2+2. Why do you keep getting mad at me for you not knowing basics?

    Why even get angry? It isn't a big deal, just speak normally like you usually do. I'm not trying to anger you so no need to get emotional.

    The 190E was the E30 M3 competition.

    The B5 S4 was an answer to the E36 M3. It was not offered in coupe form obviously.

    The E46 M3 was not the only 2 door 4 seat performance coupe. The SVT Cobra, Camaro SS and CLK 55 being others so the M3 isn't really alone in that "niche."

    Obviously the IS-F, C63, and RS4/RS5 are the E9X competition, not the GT3 or Corvette C6.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The Carrera is not a 4 seater because it is a 2+2. Why do you keep getting mad at me for you not knowing basics?

    Why even get angry? It isn't a big deal, just speak normally like you usually do. I'm not trying to anger you so no need to get emotional.

    The 190E was the E30 M3 competition.

    The B5 S4 was an answer to the E36 M3. It was not offered in coupe form obviously.

    The E46 M3 was not the only 2 door 4 seat performance coupe. The SVT Cobra, Camaro SS and CLK 55 being others so the M3 isn't really alone in that "niche."

    Obviously the IS-F, C63, and RS4/RS5 are the E9X competition, not the GT3 or Corvette C6.
    Not knowing the basics. 2+2 = 4 seats so it seats four and obviously a four seater coupe LOL

    SVT cobra and Camaro SS hahaha so a M3 is more of a camaro and mustang competitor ok got it. It lost the latest comparo to the Mustang GT.

    Yep the m3 cant be compared to an GT3 its miles ahead, and obviously, obviously its not even a match for the Carrera. Hell not even a match for the 2011 Mustang GT hmm

    So what does the m3 has to offer that no other car on the market can? Nothing. The M3 is not special in any way.

    What was the e92 M3 aimed at ?
    Last edited by 1cleanAMG; 11-09-2010 at 09:18 AM.
    Click here to enlarge

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    I am glad you came to your senses and finally accepted that the M3 is a niche and nothing really special.

  24. #49
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    What car IS special?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    Not knowing the basics. 2+2 = 4 seats so it seats four and obviously a four seater coupe LOL
    a 2 + 2 is not a true 4 seater, but is referred to a 2 + 2 for a reason. It is very easy to understand why the Carrera is specifically listed this way.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    SVT cobra and Camaro SS hahaha so a M3 is more of a camaro and mustang competitor ok got it. It lost the latest comparo to the Mustang GT.
    You mentioned 4 seat performance coupes, that is what they are. The M3 is a sport sedan competitor, hopefully you get it eventually as everyone else did a long time ago.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    Yep the m3 cant be compared to an GT3 its miles ahead, and obviously, obviously its not even a match for the Carrera. Hell not even a match for the 2011 Mustang GT hmm
    The GT3 is a sports car for over 100k, it better be better. It is a better car than the GTR as well. Let me guess, it's pathetic because it doesn't beat the GTR in a straight line? It is a better drivers car, just like the M3 is a better drivers car than the Mustang GT. If you don't get it, you never will. Do you even have any of these cars?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    So what does the m3 has to offer that no other car on the market can? Nothing. The M3 is not special in any way.
    The option of a dual clutch or 6 speed which no one else offers in that class, something the GTR is missing as well. Lowest weight in its class Click here to enlarge Best balance in its class. The best engineered motor in its class. The highest redline in its class. Only car in its class to come in coupe, sedan, and convertible.

    The M3 offers plenty, which is why it is consistently the benchmark, it is the car all others strive to equal. It is the best at what it does. You sit there and talk about the GTR, who cares? I can actually have either car and I choose the M3, as do many the world over. It represents far more than just performance figures. It never has been the fastest car, it never will be, what it is the last true M masterpiece as everything else now goes to turbo motors which no doubt makes the uneducated, inexperienced, and those evaluating cars based solely on numbers, like yourself, happy.

    Now go tell those GT3 owners they are idiots for not buying a turbo or that Porsche missed the mark because they should be competing with the ZR-1. You have no idea what you are talking about, you can't even figure out what cars the M3 competes with.
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