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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DCAFS Click here to enlarge
    That's why I changed my original ROM file with just the basic tables needed.......Timing/AFR/Load
    Stg 0 alone, untouched, works fine. If I up the fuel scaler table only on top of Stg 0, bam, tip-in flatlines. Explain that Cobb gurus!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DCAFS Click here to enlarge
    Seems to be working well at this point, but I usually start throttle tip in at 3K hitting WOT around 4.5K.......so I might be skirting around the area where timing drops due to too much torque.
    If I WOT after 3k, it's usually okay. It's part throttle, low (4ish PSI) boost. It's consistent and repeatable.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DCAFS Click here to enlarge
    So if you are stacking, it seems pointless to try and tune the wastegates via flash tables as they will be bypassed. Click here to enlarge
    The flash WGDC tables will interact during part throttle as the conditions of the wastegates evolve, and as conditions change, giving potential for overboost. The base flash should be dialed in and working perfectly as a standalone before putting a piggy on.

    Further to that, I leave the temperature compensation intact, since the base flash is less agressive with boost during warmup cycles.

    Also, if your meth kicks off, or for whatever reason need to remove the piggy roadside, the car should run on the base flash alone.

    When the piggy Boost Setpoint is higher than DME Boost Setpoint, WGDC into procede = WGDC out, to keep the DME happy. But as I found out over the weekend, bad PID parameters and adaptations in the base flash will be exacerbated when you feed those stock WGDCs back to the DME, but are manipulating the MAP signal to be twice as much as the DME is seeing.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    @Tzu, have you examined the procede backend flashes in tunerpro to see what limits tables et al are being modified? Also post up both maps.
    I hope this works. Change:

    5-23 STG3 - STACK MAP 27may14 - Copy -> to .pcd extension
    Tzu Stg0 Rev4 STACK I8A0S - Copy -> to ptm extension

    At this point, I'm almost ready to throw in the towel and call in the pros at PTF. I figured they'd comment on whether or not its fixable first...?

    Tomorrow will take T's advice and run a super conservative timing curve and report back.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  3. #28
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    Ran Stg 1 timing curve, flatline persists. I've contacted Dzenno for help.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Ran Stg 1 timing curve, flatline persists. I've contacted Dzenno for help.
    Hopefully it's just some changes to the torque tables.......keep us posted please.

  5. #30
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    Hopefully this log attaches...While WOT, boost is pretty much on target. But it seems like I'm getting part throttle overshoots. Sometimes it flatlines, sometimes it doesn't, all while still overboosting part throttle. How does one attack overshoots in ATR? WGDC tables? Or should I go for PID tables? Is there any way to reduce boost overshoot-timing sensitivity during ramp up? Also, there were NO Cyl 1-6 timing corrections in the below log. Edit: I should mention that I have "tight" wastegates.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Tzu; 06-05-2014 at 10:07 AM.

  6. #31
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    Can I reduce the entire WGDC table by say 5% to reduce overshoots since my WGs are "tight" to begin with or should I just modify the more severe cells one by one?

  7. #32
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    Compare the stock vs Cobb Boost limit multiplier table and play around with lower rpm settings, i can't recall which way to go with it.
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

    Click here to enlarge

  8. #33
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    Thanks @lulz_m3, will start there.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Just replaced all vacuum lines, vacuum at idle is good and wastegates are adjusted correctly, a little on the tight side.
    Replacing vacuum lines, and correct vacuum at idle does not mean you do not have a vacuum leak, the only vacuum you are reading at idle on the cobb is what is in the intake manifold, there are MANY places vacuum can leak between the vacuum pump and the turbos that have nothing to do what with you will see at idle, lines are only one of them, cracked nipples on canisters = common, solenoids leaking = common, etc. I would make sure you do not have vacuum leaks before pulling your hair out trying to fix this with a tune.

  10. #35
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    Tzu, you've done a bunch of review and testing at part throttle. IMO, next you should ditch the Cobb as experiment by either using BT flash, or no base flash with mild tune... this should confirm its Cobb related. I did have the most luck with the very first Cobb released stage0 with some custom tuning, but no Cobb worked best. Something's altered during interface or on the base file.

    For tuning WGDC, easiest for me to get it close was global base table and d-factor multiplier. I never really used boost limit multipler, but seems its useful to others... thought it just controlled max boost though and wouldn't effect part throttle. Had a stint there were I was tuning blind with BT flash... BT tool wasn't working with my computer, so used butt feel. If you have the procede in, it can be used for non-canbus channels... better than nothing for flash tuning... mainly useful in getting boost somewhat dialed in. BT tool is best of course, without Cobb.

    But using PTF would be interesting, since you'd be able to confirm a fix.

    Keep us updated.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Replacing vacuum lines, and correct vacuum at idle does not mean you do not have a vacuum leak, the only vacuum you are reading at idle on the cobb is what is in the intake manifold, there are MANY places vacuum can leak between the vacuum pump and the turbos that have nothing to do what with you will see at idle, lines are only one of them, cracked nipples on canisters = common, solenoids leaking = common, etc. I would make sure you do not have vacuum leaks before pulling your hair out trying to fix this with a tune.
    Thanks for the input Tony. I can assure you that my vacuum side is fine. I have a few analog vacuum gauges, a MityVac and plenty of vacuum tubing. Solenoids are 4 months old, and bleed less than my OEM solenoids. I tested the system with no fault found.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Tzu, you've done a bunch of review and testing at part throttle. IMO, next you should ditch the Cobb as experiment by either using BT flash, or no base flash with mild tune... this should confirm its Cobb related. I did have the most luck with the very first Cobb released stage0 with some custom tuning, but no Cobb worked best. Something's altered during interface or on the base file.

    For tuning WGDC, easiest for me to get it close was global base table and d-factor multiplier. I never really used boost limit multipler, but seems its useful to others... thought it just controlled max boost though and wouldn't effect part throttle. Had a stint there were I was tuning blind with BT flash... BT tool wasn't working with my computer, so used butt feel. If you have the procede in, it can be used for non-canbus channels... better than nothing for flash tuning... mainly useful in getting boost somewhat dialed in. BT tool is best of course, without Cobb.

    But using PTF would be interesting, since you'd be able to confirm a fix.

    Keep us updated.
    I would have tried the BB flash if I had a BT cable, a non-2007 car and an AMD laptop. I'm great with mechanical stuff, but if I flash incorrectly, I wouldn't know where to begin.

    I'm going to try and sort out this overshoot first. About 3 people have suggested BB flash as well. I'll give it a shot if I dont succeed with Cobb.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Compare the stock vs Cobb Boost limit multiplier table and play around with lower rpm settings, i can't recall which way to go with it.
    Looking at the Boost Limit Multiplier table now. Since my issues persist at lower (68-90 g/s) MAF request, should the X-axis be changed to reflect that?

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for the input Tony. I can assure you that my vacuum side is fine. I have a few analog vacuum gauges, a MityVac and plenty of vacuum tubing. Solenoids are 4 months old, and bleed less than my OEM solenoids. I tested the system with no fault found.
    Good to know, a lot of people just think replaces the lines gets rid of all leaks, I can tell you have a little more understanding of the system.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    If you need a BT cable let me know as I have one and it still has space for one more vin IIRC.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DCAFS Click here to enlarge
    If you need a BT cable let me know as I have one and it still has space for one more vin IIRC.
    Appreciate the offer, but if I'm going to use the BB flash then I should grab one for myself. My neighbor had one, but he moved last week (N). Also, thought you could still flash if it was VIN locked?

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Appreciate the offer, but if I'm going to use the BB flash then I should grab one for myself. My neighbor had one, but he moved last week (N). Also, thought you could still flash if it was VIN locked?
    Don't know about flashing and VIN lock.

    I just remember that when I bought the BT cable back when.....it allowed use on 3 different VINS.

    So far I have only used two VINS.....but that may be irrelevant for flashing as you suggest.

  18. #43
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    From N54Tech: Notes:1) This software requires a Bavarian Technic cable. The software does not use the BT licensing so it does not matter whether or not the BT cable is VIN locked and it will not consume a VIN within the cable. This software DOES NOT work with other USB->CAN cables such as those used for INPA & coding.

  19. #44
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    I'm about to give up.

    50+ more map revisions, fiddling with boost limit multiplier and WGDC base tables, timing tables, eliminated spool tables, I'm pretty sure it's the Cobb. I ported everything over to the Stg2+FMIC map thinking some of the backend stuff in the v402 might have resolved it, to no avail. I haven't heard back from PTF.

    Here is a log from today:

    http://datazap.me/u/tzu/more-backend...-15-22&solo=15

    I guess the big question is, is it dangerous? It's low load, I don't think it's as severe as knock since no timing retard is being reported according to live data, but it does feel like a sudden thump as timing is retarded and given back suddenly.

  20. #45
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    Use BT flash... have a backup plan in place with winls to convert your ROM if needed or recover from bricking it. Few members should be able walk you through this. But likely you'll be fine even with an 07.

  21. #46
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Quick update: Used BBFlash, and it worked flawlessly. @V8Bait, your spreadsheet and walkthroguh is incredible, comment here for some internet points. Anyway, BBFlash did not solve the issue, but it's now somehwere between where I was with Cobb, and ideal zero timing dropouts. My "tip in flatlines" are now down to 4-6 deg, with no discernable "thump" anymore. Just like it was without the flash. I'm thinking that my wastegates were adjusted too tight, even thoguh the reported/targed boosts are well within limits.

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