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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    Very high in relation to what? Most people send us their cores for cylinder head work. We offer more than just 'port and valves':


    • Comprehensive Leak, Crack & Pressure Test - Inspect All Components For Irregular Wear
    • Our Superior Max Performance Multi-angle Intake, Radius Exhaust Valve Job Using Serdi Equipment - Unshrouding of Valves - Meticulous full Port and Polish Work to enhance all performance characteristics - Trueness Checked & Resurfaced Mating Surface
    • Ferrea valves
    • Ferrea single spring design
    • Ferreatitanium retainers
    • Valve Guides
    There, I simplified things. There were a bunch of bullets. The cleaning, checking, leak, etc are all standard machine shop things.

    The only "parts" are valves, springs, guides, and retainers. The work is the ports and CC. I stand by $4k is a lot. But it's my opinion. Competition causes price to find its level.

    The results look promising.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Ok so back to my question. With upgraded valve train what's the new rev limit? I'm hoping one would be able to get 8k rpms out of a built n54 head.
    Agree. Then we can see how long 'till the rods let go. At 8k, we'll finally be able to take advantage of the 3L engine (vs. 4cl at 8500-9k).
    700 and change

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    In that case it will be good for more revs than the fuel system or cams can handle.
    exactly

    more fuel! more cams!
    boop

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blackshan Click here to enlarge
    Yeah at that point I'm sure it becomes a battle between just doing what you originally set out to do and what makes since to do once and not twice.
    yeah.. the way it's gone for me is 'well might as wellll'....
    boop

  4. #54
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    More redline would make everything more worth while!

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    There, I simplified things. There were a bunch of bullets. The cleaning, checking, leak, etc are all standard machine shop things.

    The only "parts" are valves, springs, guides, and retainers. The work is the ports and CC. I stand by $4k is a lot. But it's my opinion. Competition causes price to find its level.

    The results look promising.



    Agree. Then we can see how long 'till the rods let go. At 8k, we'll finally be able to take advantage of the 3L engine (vs. 4cl at 8500-9k).
    yeah minus the parts price, which would be about $2k, there's $2k worth of labour in the head then, which better be a LOT.

    does the DME let you up the limiter to 8k?
    boop

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Ok so back to my question. With upgraded valve train what's the new rev limit? I'm hoping one would be able to get 8k rpms out of a built n54 head.
    There's no way to really know on paper. I mean, will the rods handle the added pressure? Is the crank up for it? What about everything else?

    Only one way to find out.
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  7. #57
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    I'm only talking about these upgraded valves preventing valve float. You can't control that other stuff. As long as you're not floating valves rev that thing till a rod snaps.
    2011 335is DCT, collecting parts....


  8. #58
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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    There, I simplified things. There were a bunch of bullets. The cleaning, checking, leak, etc are all standard machine shop things.

    The only "parts" are valves, springs, guides, and retainers. The work is the ports and CC. I stand by $4k is a lot.

    The work is being done on a half million dollar machine for the CNC work, and on a 40,000 valve seat cutting machine.....
    That's the easy stuff. I enjoy cutting new seats/tipping valves/etc. that stuff is clean/easy/fun to do.
    The cleaning/checking/leaking/"etc" you say is standard is the crappy part I DON'T enjoy.

    I think you may have not had a lot of custom big time head work done on other engines, have you?
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  9. #59
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    Is there potential for gains on a RB Turbos setup on 93 octane fuel, rev limit 7200 with Cobb?
    E92 335i SB / Black Leather / 6AT / Navi Prof / Sunroof / Active Steering
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    The work is being done on a half million dollar machine for the CNC work, and on a 40,000 valve seat cutting machine.....
    That's the easy stuff. I enjoy cutting new seats/tipping valves/etc. that stuff is clean/easy/fun to do.
    The cleaning/checking/leaking/"etc" you say is standard is the crappy part I DON'T enjoy.

    I think you may have not had a lot of custom big time head work done on other engines, have you?
    Exactly, everyone who posts so and so costs/charges too much forget the value of the Intellectual Property built up to do these builds... are VAC meant to give away their talent and IP for free... for effs sake

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    Click here to enlarge



  11. #61
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    bigdnno98: You are correct. The turbo is a Tial spec HTA3586r. There is a lot left in this turbo. My guess is that it will easily make 650 on pump and on a Dynojet. I dont think 700+ is out of the question with additional octane and fuel volume. I want reliable power for road racing and on pump gas. The HPFP is getting close to being tapped out at 600whp on my setup.

  12. #62
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    Interesting to read that you went with a single turbo setup for road racing. I would have suspected that turbo lag would be too much of an issue to make the car enjoyable and controllable at the track.
    E.g. get on the throttle at the apex and...wait for it...vtec kicks in a second later Click here to enlarge

    Curious about your thoughts on this and how it can be avoided Click here to enlarge
    E92 335i SB / Black Leather / 6AT / Navi Prof / Sunroof / Active Steering
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  13. #63
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    Autobahn335i: Check out the dyno graph and the power band. A properly designed single turbo setup can be very efficient with good spool. My car, and probably most road race cars, rarely sees below 4000rpms. That puts my usable power from 450 -515 ft lbs of torque the entire way to redline. The driveability of the car is more controllable than stock in my opinion, without the light switch spool of the stock turbos, but everybody likes a different setupClick here to enlarge

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    Interesting to read that you went with a single turbo setup for road racing. I would have suspected that turbo lag would be too much of an issue to make the car enjoyable and controllable at the track.
    There's no reason a single turbo can't be road raced it's a matter of sizing the turbo to the application.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dperf Click here to enlarge
    Autobahn335i: Check out the dyno graph and the power band. A properly designed single turbo setup can be very efficient with good spool. My car, and probably most road race cars, rarely sees below 4000rpms. That puts my usable power from 450 -515 ft lbs of torque the entire way to redline. The driveability of the car is more controllable than stock in my opinion, without the light switch spool of the stock turbos, but everybody likes a different setupClick here to enlarge
    I don't think you quite caught what he was trying to compare to. NA is typically preferred for a lot of track users due to the better throttle response and the smoother linear power transition you get at the pedal. Turbo even at high RPM's is alot more difficult to dial in the smoothness that's naturally there in an NA setup. Enough patience getting the tune dialed in how you want and practice I'm sure you'd be fine just a lot more work than NA.
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  16. #66
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    There's no reason a single turbo can't be road raced it's a matter of sizing the turbo to the application.
    Agree. And I'd mention that a certain N54-motored 1M won Fastest Street Car and Fastest Privateer BMW at last year's Ultimate Track Car Challenge at VIR. In a further modified state, it will be defending these titles at this year's event in July.

    Neil

  17. #67
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    AWESOME! Another HTA86r build. I LOVE that turbo. (sigpic) The dyno is of your setup then? if so that is AMAZING spool for that turbo!!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dperf Click here to enlarge
    bigdnno98: You are correct. The turbo is a Tial spec HTA3586r. There is a lot left in this turbo. My guess is that it will easily make 650 on pump and on a Dynojet. I dont think 700+ is out of the question with additional octane and fuel volume. I want reliable power for road racing and on pump gas. The HPFP is getting close to being tapped out at 600whp on my setup.
    2011 335is DCT, collecting parts....


  18. #68
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    $4k seems like a fair price to me considering the R&D and nonrecurring costs involved. If they were to make just a handful of these it might cost $10k each. If they sold thousands I'm sure it could be much less.

    Anyway, what is the lead time on getting one done? Do you have head cores there or does ours need to be sent in first?
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  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    AWESOME! Another HTA86r build. I LOVE that turbo. (sigpic) The dyno is of your setup then? if so that is AMAZING spool for that turbo!!
    Spool is usually a direct result of manifold design coupled with proper turbo choice, use the right manifold / turbo, keep exhaust gas velocity up, and you are rewarded with amazing spool, do a cookie cutter copy of all the other kits on the market, and expect the same marginal spool they are exhibiting. Its quite obvious whoever built this system paid close attention to the subtle nuances of manifold design and did a good job on it. When prototyping, manifold design is not always top priority as you are just seeing what fits, once you get down to production it should be focused on.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MDORPHN Click here to enlarge
    Agree. And I'd mention that a certain N54-motored 1M won Fastest Street Car and Fastest Privateer BMW at last year's Ultimate Track Car Challenge at VIR. In a further modified state, it will be defending these titles at this year's event in July.

    Neil
    I'll be at VIR this year to watch Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    bigdnno98: Yes, this is a dyno graph from my car and a before/ after representation of the results i gained solely from changing the head from stock to the VAC stage 3.

    I had bought a spare low mileage motor and sent VAC my head off of it to be machined and built. I gave them no pushed time frame and it took roughly a month and a half. I am more than happy with the results. I think it is fair to say that gains on stock based turbos would likely not be as significant. The stock exhaust housings are the bottleneck in the system in that situation, while with a single setup and pushing more power than i have, the benefits would likely be more.

    For those trying to justify the cost, intellectual knowledge has a big value in our marketplace. VAC has tens of years in developing efficient head designs with all out performance and reliability at high power levels in mind. While they built motors, heads, performance parts ect.....for mainly bmw's, they have heavy focus on road racing and hill climb/ rally. These forms or racing put parts at extreme operating limits and force things to fail much quicker than most street driven cars will ever push them to. I valued their knowledge, attention to detail and the parts they have worked with Ferrea to develop for the head and was more than willing to pay the price.

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    I'll be at VIR this year to watch Click here to enlarge
    Should be fun. Look forward to meeting you.

    Neil

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dperf Click here to enlarge
    I had bought a spare low mileage motor and sent VAC my head off of it to be machined and built.
    Smart.
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    This looks very nice. If you can't pay, don't play. They are a business. Not a charity. And being smart business people, I would certainly hope they would charge what the market will pay for it. If the market doesn't show demand, the price will reduce until their reward / hassle ratio deteriorates.


    Good Job VAC. I have been waiting years to see real headwork results. Now just to get a glimpse at some cam numbers.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    I don't think you quite caught what he was trying to compare to. NA is typically preferred for a lot of track users due to the better throttle response and the smoother linear power transition you get at the pedal. Turbo even at high RPM's is alot more difficult to dial in the smoothness that's naturally there in an NA setup. Enough patience getting the tune dialed in how you want and practice I'm sure you'd be fine just a lot more work than NA.
    FWIW, I get the feeling dperf has quite a bit of track experience and those curves look smooth as butter. I bet it'll rock on a race track.
    Click here to enlarge
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