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  1. #126
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    lulz typical nonsense i see here.

  2. #127
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    Nice copy pasta. You should read before talking $#@!. Please watch this http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...roundtheworld/ its worth it. PBS Frontline
    "How have you developed your views on healthcare?"
    Well, I once saw this program on PBS and read a few articles....

    OMG, this is how you develop views and knowledge on healthcare?? I can't help but take offense that you ask me to "read" and accuse me of talking $#@!. I have a MPH and a MD; I've practiced medicine in 3 different countries and participated in 6 medical missions to underpriviledged communities in and outside this country. What credentials do you have in this arena other than watching a TV program or reading an article?

    You see, this is part of the problem. People think they know all kinds of $#@! about everything but the source of their knowledge is flawed. What kind of fool would I be if I came into your office assuming I knew all the ins and outs of your occupation? Pfizer, the world's largest pharmaceutical company, has stated they are no longer performing ANY R&D on cardiology and cardiovascular drugs. Did you know that? Do you understand the implications of that? More importantly, do you know why they are doing that? Seen any TV programs on that lately?

  3. #128
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    The United States should have Universal Healthcare.

    *Universal Health Care Would Result In Government Control And Intrusion Into Health Care Resulting In Loss Of Freedom Of Choice

    Fact One: There would be free choice of health care providers under a single payer universal health care system, unlike our current managed care system in which people are forced to see providers on the insurer’s panel to obtain medical benefits

    Fact Two: There would be no management of care under a single payer, universal health care system unlike the current managed care system which mandates insurer preapproval for services thus undercutting patient confidentiality and taking health care decisions away from the health care provider and consumer

    Fact Three: Although health care providers fees would be set as they are currently in 90% of cases, providers would have a means of negotiating fees unlike the current managed care system in which they are set in corporate board rooms with profits, not patient care, in mind

    Fact Four: Taxes, fees and benefits would be decided by the insurer which would be under the control of a diverse board representing consumers, providers, business and government. It would not be a government controlled system, although the government would have to approve the taxes. The system would be run by a public trust, not the government.

    Conclusion: Single payer, universal health care administered by a state public health system would be much more democratic and much less intrusive than our current system. Consumers and providers would have a voice in determining benefits, rates and taxes. Problems with free choice, confidentiality and medical decision making would be resolved


    *Universal Health Care Is Socialized Medicine And Would Be Unacceptable To The Public

    Fact One: Single payer universal health care is not socialized medicine. It is health care payment system, not a health care delivery system. Health care providers would be in fee for service practice, and would not be employees of the government, which would be socialized medicine. Single payer health care is not socialized medicine, any more than the public funding of education is socialized education, or the public funding of the defense industry is socialized defense.

    Fact Two: Repeated national and state polls have shown that between 60 and 75% of Americans would like a universal health care system

    Conclusion: Single payer, universal health care is not socialized medicine and would be preferred by the majority of the citizens of this country
    Last edited by 1cleanAMG; 11-08-2010 at 09:45 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

  4. #129
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  5. #130
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NatAsp-M3 Click here to enlarge
    OMG, this is how you develop views and knowledge on healthcare?? I can't help but take offense that you ask me to "read" and accuse me of talking $#@!. I have a MPH and a MD; I've practiced medicine in 3 different countries and participated in 6 medical missions to underpriviledged communities in and outside this country. What credentials do you have in this arena other than watching a TV program or reading an article
    Don't muddy this thread with relevant experience to the topic at hand.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NatAsp-M3 Click here to enlarge
    Pfizer, the world's largest pharmaceutical company, has stated they are no longer performing ANY R&D on cardiology and cardiovascular drugs. Did you know that? Do you understand the implications of that? More importantly, do you know why they are doing that? Seen any TV programs on that lately?
    And now you throw in some facts based in reality, great.

    Your experience speaks for itself, no need to even bother really, your perspective is appreciated.

  6. #131
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    There is no use talking to you republicans. This is exactly why the government is $#@!ed up.
    Click here to enlarge

  7. #132
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    The United States should have Universal Healthcare.

    *Universal Health Care Would Result In Government Control And Intrusion Into Health Care Resulting In Loss Of Freedom Of Choice

    Fact One: There would be free choice of health care providers under a single payer universal health care system, unlike our current managed care system in which people are forced to see providers on the insurer’s panel to obtain medical benefits

    Fact Two: There would be no management of care under a single payer, universal health care system unlike the current managed care system which mandates insurer preapproval for services thus undercutting patient confidentiality and taking health care decisions away from the health care provider and consumer

    Fact Three: Although health care providers fees would be set as they are currently in 90% of cases, providers would have a means of negotiating fees unlike the current managed care system in which they are set in corporate board rooms with profits, not patient care, in mind

    Fact Four: Taxes, fees and benefits would be decided by the insurer which would be under the control of a diverse board representing consumers, providers, business and government. It would not be a government controlled system, although the government would have to approve the taxes. The system would be run by a public trust, not the government.

    Conclusion: Single payer, universal health care administered by a state public health system would be much more democratic and much less intrusive than our current system. Consumers and providers would have a voice in determining benefits, rates and taxes. Problems with free choice, confidentiality and medical decision making would be resolved


    *Universal Health Care Is Socialized Medicine And Would Be Unacceptable To The Public

    Fact One: Single payer universal health care is not socialized medicine. It is health care payment system, not a health care delivery system. Health care providers would be in fee for service practice, and would not be employees of the government, which would be socialized medicine. Single payer health care is not socialized medicine, any more than the public funding of education is socialized education, or the public funding of the defense industry is socialized defense.

    Fact Two: Repeated national and state polls have shown that between 60 and 75% of Americans would like a universal health care system

    Conclusion: Single payer, universal health care is not socialized medicine and would be preferred by the majority of the citizens of this country
    Read it!
    Click here to enlarge

  8. #133
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    There is no use talking to you republicans. This is exactly why the government is $#@!ed up.
    Some Republicans would probably feel the same way about you.

    Also, don't assume everyone is automatically a Republican just because they disagree with some of the things you sate. We all want things to be better, I hate this drawing lines or picking a party BS.

  9. #134
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Some Republicans would probably feel the same way about you.

    Also, don't assume everyone is automatically a Republican just because they disagree with some of the things you sate. We all want things to be better, I hate this drawing lines or picking a party BS.

    Read my post and respond to that. You cant refute it because its fact.
    Click here to enlarge

  10. #135
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    Read my post and respond to that. You cant refute it because its fact.
    I'm not educated enough on the topic to recognize what is fact or is not. I see people here who are well versed with the medical field though so I will yield to their experience and see what I can learn. Probably best not to argue when I don't have a solid grasp on the topic (some good advice).

  11. #136
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    Read my post and respond to that. You cant refute it because its fact.
    show us where they get those "facts" from. thats like the statement "73% of all statistics are made up on the spot" get it, oko good, meaning w/o references its all bull$#@!. man you are dumb. go travel to one of these places and talk to the people instead of regurgitating what youve been spoonfed. i know, its a tough thing to not sit back and wait for what you believe your entitled to rather than get up and go get it yourself

  12. #137
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    show us where they get those "facts" from. thats like the statement "73% of all statistics are made up on the spot" get it, oko good, meaning w/o references its all bull$#@!. man you are dumb. go travel to one of these places and talk to the people instead of regurgitating what youve been spoonfed. i know, its a tough thing to not sit back and wait for what you believe your entitled to rather than get up and go get it yourself
    you are an ignorant hick. e92 posted the link...
    Click here to enlarge

  13. #138
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i cant understand why someone would support the socialist agenda. unless they are one of the lazies that stands to gain from others hard work..

    -oh, and i forgot to add, that the redistribution of Pos reps, would be governed by someone that has aboslutly no understanding of the system, or respect for it, or its intent, and would use it to benefit their friends and their own agenda . someone lik GG//M3 maybe..
    The Rep system shouldnt be allowed in the off topic section(or in any section). Fr305's world view shouldnt have an affect on his rep or lack there of. There shouldnt be such a system since it can be used by groups to rid someone from a forum for not agreeing with others. Now back to the topic at hand. Our govenment is corrupt like many others in the world, but here in the US many sheeple see the 2 parties as different. This is how the humans are being played by the worlds elite. puppets to the system. wars started for gain, and the lives of those serving in the armed forces as meaning less nothings. These are the thoughts of the elite who really run the show/world. Here is the video I had mentioned in my last post.

    Note to Sticky: I just tryed to post a video from youtube End of liberty, but it said error and that I'm a guest vendor. This is news to me.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  14. #139
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    ^ hahaa. You can't post links.

    And I would have neg repped that comment for complaining again.

  15. #140
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    Someone put this issue in terms very easy to understand. My one thought about it for today is that if its so great, why are the u.s. and state politicians not included in this plan? It seems strange how they say its best for us, but they want to stay the hell away from it!

    Let me get this straight. We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who also smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke.

    What the hell could possibly go wrong?
    Last edited by Mike; 11-09-2010 at 04:12 PM.

  16. #141
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@MHP Click here to enlarge
    Someone put this issue in terms very easy to understand. My one thought about it for today is that if its so great, why are the u.s. and state politicians also included in this plan?
    that is the smartest thing ive read all day

  17. #142
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@MHP Click here to enlarge
    Someone put this issue in terms very easy to understand. My one thought about it for today is that if its so great, why are the u.s. and state politicians also included in this plan?
    All the info in that quote is true? If so, then this has gotten to a level where it actually scares me.

    And you meant to say that the politicians aren't included in the plan, right?

  18. #143
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ Click here to enlarge
    All the info in that quote is true? If so, then this has gotten to a level where it actually scares me.

    And you meant to say that the politicians aren't included in the plan, right?
    correct, fixed and expanded.

  19. #144
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e92 Click here to enlarge
    And I would have neg repped that comment for complaining again.
    I did.

  20. #145
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    The Rep system shouldnt be allowed in the off topic section(or in any section). Fr305's world view shouldnt have an affect on his rep or lack there of. There shouldnt be such a system since it can be used by groups to rid someone from a forum for not agreeing with others.
    I agree with you up until you say in any section.

    FR305 should not be punished for his political opinion which is why rep was disabled in this thread and his rep was restored. See, check and balance exists when necessary as since we are capable of interpreting things we can make decisions based on the situation as it arises. Nothing is perfect, we aren't, so that is why we try to correct errors.

    I'm sick of your whining about rep, really. You have an issue with it because you get so much negative rep. Well then, you should change your attitude. Since you don't, you have neg rep. Blame yourself, not the system. Learn to take personal responsibility instead of whining about others.

    You also forget, the rep system serves to reward users for their contributions allowing them more control over the board for how much work they put in. Shocking, I know, to expect you to put in effort for the benefit of the community. So, STFU and quit whining.

  21. #146
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    Note to Sticky: I just tryed to post a video from youtube End of liberty, but it said error and that I'm a guest vendor. This is news to me.
    That's because I don't have the programming finished where it prevents users with under a certain amount of rep to post links so I set you manually since you were intent on abusing it. Keep it coming though, I'm glad you are helping me perfect it.

    Thanks to you users can now not send Pm's when in negative rep Click here to enlarge

  22. #147
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    nazi'd

  23. #148
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    Read my post and respond to that. You cant refute it because its fact.
    In response to this: In the information you quoted there really isn't much 'fact' and appears to be generalizations of a proposed bill that didn't happen and is separate from what was actually passed. I did however follow the link and check out the numbers and most of them were accurate or even worse (more in favor of the idea, such as us falling down the list even more in various death ratings) there were others that were wrong or misquoted.

    "Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits."

    http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm disagrees in that it is over 10 years rather than 1

    I think informed people don't disagree with federalized health care on principle will agree with the Idea, but nearly all will be Against it's Execution. As MHP stated just the way the legislation was passed is simply appalling. There are also scenarios such as the Pfizer example where the effects are dramatic and unforeseen by many.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092006682.html is another example

    In summary I try to stay out of this heated emotional stuff but being staunchly to one side or the other is really just sticking your head in the sand and shouting
    Click here to enlarge

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