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  1. #126
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by crypticc Click here to enlarge
    Buy one. Put it in managed storage in the UK. And then you'll have a mint bit of history to scare all the electric cars in 14 years time.
    If they don't come up with some kind of legislation outlawing used cars by then.

  2. #127
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    We will see how much faith BMW has in the S55. If they actually take it racing, which I have doubts they ever will. I just don't see them running a tubo-6 against the other big na V8s in the GTE class.


  3. #128
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    We will see how much faith BMW has in the S55. If they actually take it racing, which I have doubts they ever will. I just don't see them running a tubo-6 against the other big na V8s in the GTE class.
    does wc mean "wah-ching"?

  4. #129
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mpjc Click here to enlarge
    I've lusted after an M3 for a long time, and I finally bought one a few months ago. Normally, it seems crazy to buy a leftover old model when a new, revamped, more powerful and efficient one is about to be released. But when the dealership had this 2013 E92 sitting there - for a nice discount, as an added bonus - I couldn't resist. To provide some context, I was trading in a 135i with the N55, with JB4, downpipe, and intake. This little car made a massive amount of power, and was probably every bit as fast in a straight line as the M3 (the chassis, however, is another story - woefully inadequate stock for the amount of power the car made). However, there was still something missing, and it wasn't that hard to figure out what. I never had any real urge to rev the car because it ran out of steam at anything above 5500 rpm. While torque is addicting, high rpm horsepower is exhilarating, and that's what the S65 offers. I absolutely love my M3, and don't regret for a moment spending the money to move up from the 135i. Now that it is broken in and I can rev it, I remember what I loved about the first BMW I had (one of many things!). When I drove my N52 328i enthusiastically, it begged to be revved, and that made it fun even though it was only moderately powerful. At the end of the day, after reflecting on what it is that I really enjoy about driving, it's clear to me that a high revving naturally aspirated car puts a bigger smile on my face than a boosted car that doesn't like to rev as much, even if the boosted car is just as fast or faster. Thus my eagerness to pick up an E92 and lack of desire to own an M4. This does not mean that the E92 is better - the M4 is undoubtedly a superior car in almost every respect. But what I care about is: which car is likely to put a big smile on my face? And the E92 certainly does that.

    Regarding responsiveness, I recall reading up on the JB4 before I bought it and many people talked about how little lag there was. I didn't perceive that at all. The difference between being on boost and not was so pronounced that it made the engine's power delivery seem much less linear than stock. And that difference was felt, even if only for a split second, every time you abruptly floored the accelerator. The S65, on the other hand, offers instant, linear response. I'll be very curious to drive an M4 to see if it really is anywhere close to as responsive and linear as the S65.

    I am certainly not claiming that an N55 with some aftermarket performance parts is as good as the new M engine. But it does give a general basis for comparing forced induction vs naturally aspirated. And yes the sound matters too. The 135i with catless dp and performance exhaust was loud, but the character of the sound matters more than the volume. And the intake noise of the S65 revving has a beautiful, mechanical character.

    All of the things that I mention are just a matter of what I find satisfying. Different strokes for different folks. My experience with AMGs is limited to one car (but a good one): an SLS AMG on a track, driven back to back with a 997 turbo. That comparison is definitely one of sledgehammer vs scalpel. In that comparison I prefer the scalpel, and since I have always associated the AMGs with the sledgehammer, I have an M3 and not a C63. What I find most fascinating about Sutcliffe's review is that one doesn't really get the sense that that comparison applies, given what he says about the AMGs steering and overall feel. Very interesting.
    Well thought-out assessment and comments!!

  5. #130
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    Steve Sutcliffe is one of more well respected reviewers these days.

    He liked the car as a whole, but not the S55 powerplant. It feels flat.
    Respected by the lame and mentally feeble, perhaps. If he doesn't like it, then he shouldn't buy one. Neither should he actually test one by obtaining quantitative data, which he did not.

    Everything is fine.

  6. #131
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MJM Click here to enlarge
    Well thought-out assessment and comments!!
    Yeah because I also drive around all day at 6K RPM to 8.5K RPM!

    I would say no thought about real world driving experience is evident in that post. He prefers the S65 and its dismal fuel efficiency, then so be it. To argue it is better than the S55 is a Luddite argument.

    And don't forget the sound! That is what car enthusiasts really buy! Big mobile megaphones is what is the most important measure!

  7. #132
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by maxnix Click here to enlarge
    Yeah because I also drive around all day at 6K RPM to 8.5K RPM!

    I would say no thought about real world driving experience is evident in that post. He prefers the S65 and its dismal fuel efficiency, then so be it. To argue it is better than the S55 is a Luddite argument.

    And don't forget the sound! That is what car enthusiasts really buy! Big mobile megaphones is what is the most important measure!
    I know you are being sarcastic (somewhat), but you have to admit the car sounds pretty horrible; and considering BMW had to pump in electronic "assistance" (sound) to help the drive "feel" where the engine is, that's pretty bad. Look at F1 - they moved to turbo 6s, and the sound is so bad, that they are losing millions of dollars in viewership. The people that go to the races hate it. Point is, sound matters. Yeah, it doesn't matter if you only care about numbers - but it's a HUGE part of the driving experience. It puts a grin on your face - that's enough of a reason.

    Any engine with 400+ horsepower and low gearing is going to have "dismal" fuel efficiency. It's part of the game. BMW just released the numbers for the N55 (err. S55) powered M3, and it's a whopping 3 MPG better in the City. Who gives a $#@!? It's a sports car - I don't buy a sports car to see how good my MPG can be. I drive the car hard - all the time. And - when I can (meaning without traffic), you can bet your ass the engine is above 6k ALL THE TIME.

    Drive one - don't just speculate on what you think an M3 driver does/cares about/etc...

  8. #133
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    I get it, I really do. BMW is going after the guys who have loved and still love their 335i - and are thinking this is a huge step up, and it is. It's also a "step up" from the current M3 - however, that's looking at the numbers only. It's like looking at a Ferrarri 458 Speciale and saying, oh it's terrible because it's not a GT-R. Two different cars - one is a driver/track focused tack driver, the other is a shotgun.

    You need to work the last generation (and moreso the last-last generation) M3 moreso than a 335i, and TONS moreso than the next gen M3. People that don't track their car don't care about redlines/natural aspiration/feel/etc... - they want a car that can roll on fast/hard, and is fun on the street. Two seperate cars for two different people - there is no questioning this. You don't care, I do. Doesn't mean I am a "luddite" for thinking what I think (or anyone else for that matter) - I take my car to the track - and the things mentioned above are important.

    You like a car for different reasons obviously. Doesn't mean I am right you are wrong, just means that the car completely changed directions - in the way of the non track focused driver, to an everyday fast sedan that handles well.

  9. #134
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by maxnix Click here to enlarge
    And don't forget the sound! That is what car enthusiasts really buy! Big mobile megaphones is what is the most important measure!
    Yeah who cares what a car sounds like?


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