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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Porsche doesn't sell a 991 with a metzger
    Dodge doesn't sell a SRT with an 8.0 V10
    Chevy doesn't sell a Vette with a 5.5 V8
    Ferrari doesn't sell a 458 with a 4.0 V8
    etc, etc, etc...
    Does BMW sell a hardtop Z4 or Z4M coupe? (engine doesn't matter for sake of argument)

  2. #52
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    BMW needs these concessions to be competitive. They got numerous concessions when they ran the E92 M3.

    Basically IMSA allowed BMW to turn their Z4 GT3 car into a GTE car. All they had to do was remove the ABS, yaw control, stability control as they are not allowed in GTE. Only traction control is allowed. Also some aero changes (no rear diffuser and no front drive planes).

    I always thought that would open the book for other makes to transfer their GT3 cars into GTE spec. Like the R8 LMS Ultra, MP4-12C GT3, SLS GT3, etc...but it never happened.

    I guess it will be 2015 when we get the big GT class rules change and the merger of the GT3/GTE classes. Should be interesting.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    Does BMW sell a hardtop Z4 or Z4M coupe? (engine doesn't matter for sake of argument)
    According to @Sticky it should be fine because they sold a hardtop Z4M in the past generation similar to how Porsche sold a 4.0 GT3 in the past generation. You guys are getting worked up over this but their competition isn't, doesn't that say something?

    Click here to enlarge

    /
    //A L E X A N D R E 1983 Photography///ALX1983.COM

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    According to @Sticky it should be fine because they sold a hardtop Z4M in the past generation similar to how Porsche sold a 4.0 GT3 in the past generation.
    That's not my argument and you are marking a logical fallacy in equating the GT3 that just hit the market to the one that is as close as possible to the race car Porsche sold for homologation. Porsche is not actively shying away from street cars for homologation. I'm not sure why you don't get this?

    This is my argument:

    Here is where things get really interesting regarding the engine. Obviously, there is no E89 Z4M and no production Z4 for sale with a V8. The M3 and M3 GTS both were sold with a V8. BMW sold many more than the 300 units required of the E9X M3 so according to the rules they can use this engine. There is nothing in the rule book that states the race car has to use the motor of the car it is based on. Technically, Ferrari could race the V12 they sell which meets the production number requirement in the 458 chassis if they wanted to. They do not do this though as everyone other than BMW races a motor similar to what they actually sell the car with.

    The C7 has a V8, the Viper has a V10, the GT3 has a flat-6, the 458 has a V8, etc. Everyone follows the spirit of competition by basing their race cars on their street version of the car except BMW


    If you want to go get a 911 GT3 like the one they race for the street, you can. Why? Because Porsche sold one. Porsche just came out with a new GT3 but since the motor they already raced was eligible due to being in production up until last year they are using it just like BMW. If Porsche made the switch too early they might have a big problem on their hands like what the 991 GT3 is currently seeing.

    THE DIFFERENCE that continues to elude you somehow is that Porsche produces a model based on what they race and always has. BMW is not doing so, they are specifically using loopholes to avoid doing so unlike the others. Ferrari has a 458 coupe with a V8, Chevrolet has a C7 coupe with a V8, SRT has a Viper coupe with a V10, and Porsche has a GT3 Coupe with a flat-6.

    Would you mind explaining where the Z4M V8 coupe is? Do you prefer a world where everyone else builds a sports car they race except BMW? Ok, well I don't.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    You guys are getting worked up over this but their competition isn't, doesn't that say something?
    It says the competition is not the rules committee? Porsche got plenty worked up last time.

  5. #55
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    Great write up Click here to enlarge OP.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    According to @Sticky it should be fine because they sold a hardtop Z4M in the past generation similar to how Porsche sold a 4.0 GT3 in the past generation. You guys are getting worked up over this but their competition isn't, doesn't that say something?
    No one is worked up my friend.

    Just trying to point out the difference that some feel. You are in a different camp, that is all. Not a big deal.

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Would you mind explaining where the Z4M V8 coupe is? Do you prefer a world where everyone else builds a sports car they race except BMW? Ok, well I don't.
    His argument is since other competitors are using different displacement motors. Then that allows BMW to run a Z4M that doesn't exist, and allows BMW to run it in coupe form that doesn't exist, and run a 4.4L V8 Z4 that doesn't exist. For me that is a lot more strikes against BMW. That is not even getting into the fact the Z4 GTE chassis/suspension is least like its road going counterpart than any other car on the grid.

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    His argument is since other competitors are using different displacement motors. Then that allows BMW to run a Z4M that doesn't exist, and allows BMW to run it in coupe form that doesn't exist, and run a 4.4L V8 Z4 that doesn't exist. For me that is a lot more strikes against BMW. That is not even getting into the fact the Z4 GTE chassis/suspension is least like its road going counterpart than any other car on the grid.
    Even if we forget the motors being 100% exact same as none of them are the fact remains there is no Z4M. There is no Z4 hardtop coupe. Hell, they don't even have the chassis for sale let alone with the motor.

  9. #59
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    Just as a data point: Personally, the motor is *an* issue for me, but as a casual fan, rooting for a car that doesn't exist is a non-starter. Engine massaging I could probably deal with as long as it isn't too ridiculous. I formed this opinion as soon as BMW announced the change; not after reading Sticky's article.

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