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  1. #1
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    Let's discuss twin turbo S85 V10's

    For a while now people have wondered about twin turbo E60 M5's and E63 M6's. This is just a brainstorming thread about BMW performance and where it is headed.

    For whatever idiotic reason, people call the M5/M6 weak as well as the M3 that uses a motor based on the S85 V10. I contend this is the strongest platform in the German aftermarket. The only rival is really the twin turbo R8 5.2 which is just a reskinned Gallardo. Beyond that, this will be the king.

    Why? Well, twin turbos are coming. Not like that ASR debacle somebody who can actually do more than install a nitrous kit is working on twin turbos.

    If you look at the Gallardo, it does well with boost because it is a high revving high volumetric efficiency motor. Because it is built to put out great power in naturally aspirated form boost goes a long way.

    The Gallardo revs very high for what it is despite having a 84.5mm bore and 92.8mm stroke. Yes, it is an undersquare design which you do not traditionally see rev high. The LP-560 revs to 8500 rpm and at that rpm has a piston speed of 5175 feet per minute which is insanely high.

    The S85 V10 on the other hand has a stroke of 75.2mm being a high revving oversquare design. This means at 8500 rpm its piston speed is 4194 feet per minute. This means the S85 V10 engine components are not quite as stressed as the Gallardo's. It also means the S85 V10 has far more room to increase its stroke than the Gallardo for greater displacement. You could in theory have a 5.7 liter S85 V10 twin turbo that at 8500 rpm from an 85mm stroke would have piston speeds at 4740 feet per minute. More displacement, yet lower piston speeds than the Gallardo in stock form.

    I really don't understand why people don't see this. I don't understand how people can call the M5/M6 weak when the potential there is really greater than... anything. It's harder to do turbos on the platform because the cars using the motor do not have a mid-engine layout. Space constraints mean serious skill is necessary. Not to mention the tuning necessary to accompany this.

    Imagine for a moment a 5.7 liter V10 twin turbo S85 paired to a DCT transmission. This would be unrivaled. Gallardo displacement and revs with insane shift speed. Somebody could stick this in say a lightweight Z4 and rule the world.

    This is just me brainstorming at 1 AM but it always boggles my mind how AMG people claim superiority just because an E55 gets more power from a tune and pulley than an E60 M5 does from a tune and underdrive pulley. Duh, no kidding. However, if you go big the E55 has to go home because it will never, ever, keep up.

    The S85 has the potential to be the top dog. It's just not easy to get there. If someone were to try they would probably be ridiculed for the amount of engineering and time it would take to get there anyway.
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  2. #2
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    wheres da traction boi

  3. #3
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    although I have thought of similar ideas of throwing a tt s65 in a e89 z4 or m coupe. would be an insane car.

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    First, the rod bearings need to be addressed. Our way to do this would be to go with an aftermarket rod, like we sell for the N54/N55/N20 platform. A rod and bearing designed for abuse.

    Secondly, packaging. Where would one stick the snails? I've replaced the manifolds on S85's. Entertaining Click here to enlarge
    There really isnt any room, save for remote mounts in the back.

    The biggest issue (as always): Tuning.
    Who and what shall you use to tune this?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
    First, the rod bearings need to be addressed. Our way to do this would be to go with an aftermarket rod, like we sell for the N54/N55/N20 platform. A rod and bearing designed for abuse.

    Secondly, packaging. Where would one stick the snails? I've replaced the manifolds on S85's. Entertaining Click here to enlarge
    There really isnt any room, save for remote mounts in the back.

    The biggest issue (as always): Tuning.
    Who and what shall you use to tune this?

    I'm pretty sure but don't quote me on this, but Gintani is working on an S85 tt and I'm sure some sort of crazy manifold fabrication was in order. Tuning should be done on the stock dme, if not syvec's all day. Sort of a booboo answer but, at this point it's all speculation anyway.

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    I have seen a picture of a Gold ex GPower car with twin turbo V10 that resides in Germany. I cannot divulge more information but space wise it can be done.

  7. #7
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    I'm not saying it cant be done, its just very tight packaging. lots of stuff in the way.....
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  8. #8
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    It is extremely tight but it's been done.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    It's been done




    The problem isn't the motor, it's getting it to work in the E6x M5/M6 chassis, specifically the space + CAN system. If Gintani does have a reliable TT-tune setup on the E9x M3, I'm sure adapting the software to the S85 wouldn't be too much of a hurdle, but like Sticky & Alex both said finding the space for everything (turbos, manifolds, intercooling, piping) is going to the real headache.
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  10. #10
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    Yes it has been done and when done it's very mean. Why some people don't get this I have no clue.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    I'm batting around my own TT setup on my M6 or a Gintani centrifugal setup. Truth be told I'm not a big fan of a centrifugal setup as I'm a lifelong turbo junky, positive displacement is another story. I'm a fabricator and a Marine so I have the resources. I'm considering doing it myself and using VEMS or Haltech to tune it.
    Because racecar.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It is extremely tight but it's been done.
    I use to say that about my college GF.

  13. #13
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    I use to say that about my college GF.
    God I love you all.
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  14. #14
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigM62 Click here to enlarge
    I use to say that about my college GF.
    Click here to enlarge
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    I read TWIN TURBO s85 and had an erection thinking someone had one
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  16. #16
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
    I read TWIN TURBO s85 and had an erection thinking someone had one
    Someone has.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Nice write up sticky and info... Not really even alot of SC activity on this platform, would think it would be hard to get someone to start a turbo project, but god it would be epic.
    ///M5 LCI
    "It's like the F10 is the 911 Turbo to the E60's GT3" -Pistonheads (M5 feature)

  18. #18
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    if you want ugr type power you need to rebuild the motor for sure. the s85 cannot be reliable past 750-800 crank there are just too many cost cutting measures. this is obvious though lol and yeah fitment under the hood of these cars is the biggest obstacle so car which is why no one wants to be bothered lol

    sticky has contributed big time to the s85 dct swap thing lol
    '08 535xi - fbo

  19. #19
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
    Not really even alot of SC activity on this platform
    I don't know if it's M5/M6 owners being an older crowd or what.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't know if it's M5/M6 owners being an older crowd or what.
    that is exactly it. they are a DINAN market
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    Biggest problem with S85 aftermarket is that it came in a sedan & luxury gran touring car. The Lambo/R8 are mid-engine, AWD sports cars, so they're already begging for big power, and they've got a chassis that can support it.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't know if it's M5/M6 owners being an older crowd or what.
    Not sure myself, coming from modding my 335i's for years, community was SO huge, once i jumped into the M5, it was a very slow modding community..M5 guys, Large part is very non techy, and have a hard time understanding datalogging. I have come to the conclusion that alot of them are wealthy and just let shops do work for them, and leased their cars, and have moved on now.. The new second wave of owners are alot more modding friendly and tech knowledgeable i see coming out.
    ///M5 LCI
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Biggest problem with S85 aftermarket is that it came in a sedan & luxury gran touring car. The Lambo/R8 are mid-engine, AWD sports cars, so they're already begging for big power, and they've got a chassis that can support it.
    that's true as well, it's a pain in the ass controlling these fat pigs stock even with a skilled driver, let alone modified for more power, and have you guys seen the mind$#@! going on under the hood? edit: better example: Evolve's new intake for the S85 cars is $650 ($1100 for CF)
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
    Not sure myself, coming from modding my 335i's for years, community was SO huge, once i jumped into the M5, it was a very slow modding community..M5 guys, Large part is very non techy, and have a hard time understanding datalogging. I have come to the conclusion that alot of them are wealthy and just let shops do work for them, and leased their cars, and have moved on now.. The new second wave of owners are alot more modding friendly and tech knowledgeable i see coming out.
    Yeah I think you summarize it well.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Biggest problem with S85 aftermarket is that it came in a sedan & luxury gran touring car. The Lambo/R8 are mid-engine, AWD sports cars, so they're already begging for big power, and they've got a chassis that can support it.
    Since when can't a E60 M5 or E63 M6 not support the power?
    Because racecar.

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